100 yr old American jointer

[rob louvasz]

Well I finally did it. I found an old piece of American Iron in Shelby, Ohio. It's a 12" three-toed jointer, made around 1910. At some point someone changed the cutter head to a Cresent four knife head. The gentleman was asking 600.00 but took 550.00. I was lucky enough that he had a relative with a skid steer loader to load this beast! I rented a bobcat to unload it and get it into my garage. I'll try to get some photos posted (as soon as I figure out how). There seems to be a piece missing that keeps the head from moving side to side in the babbitt bearings. If anyone out there knows what it is please let me know. Until next time.

[Cary Falk]

There seems to be a piece missing that keeps the head from moving side to side in the babbitt bearings. If anyone out there knows what it is please let me know. Until next time.

Someone over at OWWM.org probably knows.

[Logan William]

Start with OWWM.com, check the manufacturer's index and see what other pictures/documentation you can find there. Once you've done that head over to the .org site(you'll need to join to take full advantage) and start browsing "The Shop" Best of luck with your new purchase, I just got went last night and picked up 2 pieces of old iron I bought of owwm.org's classified section

[Van Huskey]

I have been waiting to see someone with a jointer of that era to put a Byrd head in it, I may be the only one but think it would be cool. Looking forward to the pctures.

[Kirk Poore]

There seems to be a piece missing that keeps the head from moving side to side in the babbitt bearings. If anyone out there knows what it is please let me know. Until next time.

It kind of depends on the manufacturer. Some babbit bearings are poured with a thrust surface on them, but in many cased the shaft is machined with grooves or something similar which provides a thrust surface when the babbitt is poured around it. My ~1920 Hall & Brown has a series of v-ridges on the shaft on one side of the head, and with the babbitt poured to match they keep the head steady.

I take it from your comment, though, that your shaft is moving side to side a little? If it's only a little, and the cutterhead is in no danger of hitting something, I wouldn't worry about it too much. If it's say, more than 1/8", then you might want to look for a solution. Of course, pictures would help. And there is a high concentration of knowledge over at OWWM.org.

Kirk

[Art Bianconi]

A few years ago I acquired an Oliver Model 144 that had been gathering dust at a local school after it dropped its woodworking classes. It was Post WW-1. The GE 220 volt 3 phase motor has a US Patent date of 1913.

I do not have real 3 phase 220 VAC in my shop so I must fool the Bridgeport and the machine lathe with Phase-O-Matics. Other 3 phase motors are driven by a Westinghouse solid state inverter.

The Oliver didn't like being fed by the Phase-O-Matic at all and ran hot as hell. However, it runs like a champ off the Westinghouse solid state inverter. In fact I use the frequency modulator to over speed the Oliver by as much as 50%. It still runs cool and the ball bearings appear to be OK too.

BTW, that little 9" Skill band saw next to the Oliver arrived today from CPO Central.com. Delivered price of $89.99! That's $110 off the regular price. I do not expect it to survive as long as the Oliver but at that price, who cares?! It will get a 24 VDC motor conversion.

Those old machine, especially the industrial ones will run forever and will often outperform and outlast the new stuff.

IMO, I think you did well!

Art

[Zach England]

I had no idea there were jointers that old. When was the jointer invented?

Is it difficult to get heads and blades that will fit those?

[Kirk Poore]

I had no idea there were jointers that old. When was the jointer invented?

Is it difficult to get heads and blades that will fit those?

Jointers, under various names like hand planers and buzz planers, date back to at least the 1870's and possibly the 1850's. The owwm.com site has hundreds listed, many of them from before 1900. You can go here: http://owwm.com/photoindex/bytype.aspx

and select "jointer" from the machine type menu.

As for blades, modern round-head type machines became available before 1920, and many earlier jointers with square heads (and other variations) have been retrofitted. These machines use straight knives which are pretty much the same as most straight planer knives and are readily available.

Square head machines use large, thick knives which are rare and quite expensive. Square head jointers are also pretty scary, and unless there is a good reason to preserve them (such as in a museum setting) they probably should be replaced. Several people at owwm.org have replaced their jointer heads with straight knife planer heads that came out of either scrapped planers or machines that had their heads replaced by carbide-type multi-knife systems. These replacements were machined down to fit either the existing babbitt bearings or replacement pillow blocks.

Unlike many woodworking machines, jointers are dead simple and thus haven't really changed much since they've been around. The big ones were built to last forever, and since they are simple and are just as useful, they tend to have survived more frequently than other machines. If you look back at catalogs from about 1900, you'll see that some machines have been almost entirely replaced (vertical borers by drill presses, cut-off saws by RAS and SCMS), utterly transformed (planers and molders), or radically altered (table saws), but jointers are still pretty much the same. Only bandsaws seem to match them for survivability.

Kirk

[george wilson]

I know that in the 18th.C.,several heavy,wooden framed machines were used in the Royal Shipyard in England. They saved a million pounds in labor in 1 year. The workmen protested so much that the machines were taken down. This always happened in England. Swiss multiple bladed sawmills (up and down type saws) were in use even in the 13th.C..

In England,workers always rioted against anything that took their work away,so progress was slow in some areas.

I may not be remembering correctly,but I am pretty sure the shipyard had a crude thickness planer,though very different from ours. There was a vertical shaft that propelled planes in a circular motion horizontally. I think they also had a bandsaw.

Maybe someone could shed more light on this. I need to eat something.

[Zach England]

Is there a decent book on the history of woodworking machinery? I have seen a lot about specific tools, and even more about hand tools, but not about general machinery.

[Frank Drew]

In England,workers always rioted against anything that took their work away,so progress was slow in some areas.



A bit of an overstatement; England, of course, was reponsible for a lot of the Industrial Revolution. Labor relations were long strained there, but it's not accurate to lay all the responsibility for that at labor's doorstep.

But that gets us into serious thread drift... ;)

[rob louvasz]

Thanks for the input guys. I think what actually kept the head from moving side to side was some type of mechanism that rubbed against the end of the shaft next to the pullies. I'm thinking that a couple of bronze bushings on each side of the cutterhead next to babbitt bearings should work. I'll try to get some photos soon. Rob.

[Art Bianconi]

"Square head jointers are also pretty scary, and unless there is a good reason to preserve them (such as in a museum setting) they probably should be replaced."

Kirk

Kirk, I've used the Oliver without incident but my experience with jointers is still very limited.

Might you elaborate on why you think square head jointers are scary please?

Thanks

Art

[steve swantee]

I own and use a 16" John Ballantine & Co square head jointer with babbitts from about 1894. I don't think it's scary, but it ceratinly demands respect.

Steve

[george wilson]

Square heads can suck in your whole arm,so please be very careful !!

[Frank Drew]

Put me down ditto to what George just wrote; because of the square shape of the cutterhead, the infeed and outfeed tables can't come come up nice and close to the cutterhead, and that leaves a big, potentially hand and arm swallowing gap and lots of knife exposed. This is not to say that square cutterheads can't be used safely, just that if an accident happens it can be limb-threatening. Round cutterheads are safer by an order of magnitude.

[steve swantee]

Thanks for the concern George. Ask an old timer with missing fingers what a jointer is and I'll bet he knows all too well. I keep the tables adjusted as close as possible to the cutting circle and use a push block that hooks over the end of my stock whenever my hands are going to be anywhere near the knives, and when face planing. The block that hooks over the end of the board gives a lot more control and ensures that if the knives catch the board it can't lurch backwards and drop a hand in the cutterhead.

I am currently running 12" slotted knives in the jointer. Have been unable to find 16" knives-don't suppose anyone has a couple in their back pocket do they????

Steve

[Kirk Poore]

Thanks for the input guys. I think what actually kept the head from moving side to side was some type of mechanism that rubbed against the end of the shaft next to the pullies. I'm thinking that a couple of bronze bushings on each side of the cutterhead next to babbitt bearings should work. I'll try to get some photos soon. Rob.


Yes, please post some pictures. When you do it, take off the babbitt caps and take some pictures of the bearings with the shaft in place. It should give a better view.

I repoured the babbitt on a sawmill that had a worn babbitt thrust bearing. The arbor flange on the 48" blade was rubbing against the cast iron bearing housing, causing a lot of extra friction and heat. I set it up so the regular wicking material also extended clear to thrust bearing so some oil would get between it and the arbor flange. If you do go with bronze bushings, you'll want them rubbing up against babbitt and preferably you'll want a way to wick some oil there, too.

As for dangerous square heads, even with the knives barely clearing the table edge, by their geometry there is a large gap between the flat of the knife and the table edge. If something gets into this gap, the head will take a very large bite when the next blade come along. If that thing isn't cut through, the knife will pull it in.

A friend of mine has a 16" square head jointer(an Egan, I think). He calls it "Munch".

I don't think there is a history of ww machines by type written. Dana Batory's books cover certain manufacturers, but I don't know if he covers developments within general machine types.

Kirk