looking into dye sub......

[David Harvey]

I'm kinda thinking of adding dye-sub capability to my shop but I'm unsure what type of printer to go with. There are inkjets and there are laser printers and I don't know the pro's and con's of either.

I know that a lot of you on here do dye-sub so maybe someone could give me a few pointers of what works and what doesn't.

Any help would be apprecisted and thanks in advance

[Brian Robison]

PM on the way

[Richard Rumancik]

David, one thing that I do know - if you go inkjet, make sure you have the volume of work to keep the printer busy so that the ink does not plug up in the nozzles. Or else, make sure you print something every few days. I made the mistake of not using mine for several weeks; the nozzles would not self-clean, and I was told the $500 printer was not serviceable. I tried all the tricks to purge it but to no avail.

At least laser does not have this problem, but I have not tried laser sublimation.

[Dan Hintz]

I was told the $500 printer was not serviceable.
If that were me, the company would quickly find a new boat anchor on their doorstep from FedEx and a chargeback on my credit card. There's no excuse for an expensive item failing due to lack of use. They can build in a self-cleaning step that shoots off every 24 hours if the nozzles clog that easily. My "new" wireless HP printer used a nozzle cartridge (unbeknownst to me when I ordered it) and the damn thing clogged within the week. I was only out $75, so I'm not quite fuming, but I won't make that mistake again.

[Gary Hair]

If that were me, the company would quickly find a new boat anchor on their doorstep from FedEx and a chargeback on my credit card. There's no excuse for an expensive item failing due to lack of use. They can build in a self-cleaning step that shoots off every 24 hours if the nozzles clog that easily. My "new" wireless HP printer used a nozzle cartridge (unbeknownst to me when I ordered it) and the damn thing clogged within the week. I was only out $75, so I'm not quite fuming, but I won't make that mistake again.

Dan,
The issue with dye sub printers isn't the printer, it's the dye. If you put the oem ink carts in the printer and let it sit for 2 or 3 weeks it wouldn't be a problem. With dye, big problem. Anyone who does dye sub either knows, or finds out, that you don't leave your printer idle without suffering the consequences. There is a program that you can buy that will print a nozzle check every couple of days if you don't use it. It's not the printer mfg's responsibility to address this, we are using the printer in a way that they weren't intended to be used.

Gary

[Gary Hair]

I'm kinda thinking of adding dye-sub capability to my shop but I'm unsure what type of printer to go with. There are inkjets and there are laser printers and I don't know the pro's and con's of either.

I know that a lot of you on here do dye-sub so maybe someone could give me a few pointers of what works and what doesn't.

Any help would be apprecisted and thanks in advance

David,
I have been doing dye sub for over 3 years, not terribly long but long enough to have an opinion... I have an Epson R1800 and have been very happy with it. The output is fantastic and it's fairly low maintenance. I print a nozzle check every 3 days if I don't use it and it hasn't plugged unless I forget. There is a new R1900 but I haven't really heard much about it, compared to the R1800 anyway. I would probably stay away from laser dye sub, the resolution isn't that great. You don't have any problem with clogging, but you can avoid that pretty easily with ink jet. The newest technology is gel, Ricoh has a couple of printers that are getting good reviews and seem to work really well.

I would suggest you call Kevin Lumberg at Johnson Plastics. He is the person I bought all of my dye sub equipment from and have not regretted his advice for a second. He'll give you answers to your questions as well as advice that fits your needs, he won't sell you a bunch of stuff you don't need, it's just not his style. You'll also get support from Kevin that I guarantee you won't get elsewhere. (888) 869-7834 is his direct line.

If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.

Gary

[Mike Null]

As said previously, volume is the key to dye sub. If you don't have sufficient volume your printer will clog and in the process of cleaning/unclogging it will drink ink. Sub ink may be about the same price as gold.

I buy my transfers from My Transfer Source. (after I trashed my printer and gave away my sub ink)

I do laser sublimation, black only and get outstanding results.

[Larry Bratton]

David:
You might want to look at a Ricoh GX7000. It uses a new gel system. I participate in a forum for people that do t-shirts and garments and it seems this system is a really big advancement over the Epson systems. I don't do the process, but also have been looking at getting into it.

[AL Ursich]

This is a search of "R1800" with some very good tips and info to know about inkjet Sublimation.

Worth the read. I have been doing Sublimation since 2006 and Johnson Plastics has been my supplier. Nothing but GOOD to say about the service.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/search.php?searchid=3884450

AL

[Bryan Cowan]

I'm also looking into dye sublimation for our business. Our application would be to take white aluminum circles and sublimate ink onto them to be used as pressure gauge dials. Not looking for anything for mass production. Just wonder if inkjet sublimation would work well? Ink needs to be UV resistant as well as chemical/liquid resistant for various types of fill fluid inside our gauges.

Anyone ever done aluminum? Could anyone run samples for us to do testing? I don't mean to hijack this thread, so PM me if possible.

[AL Ursich]

This is the standard disk done in Sublimation.....

Sublimation is NOT UV Resistant... It will fade over time....

I printed some samples and some Fire Truck Pump Control handles.... Looked GREAT.... The display sat in on a table at a Fire Dept Supply Store and the Sun faded some of the labels and disks... I dropped the product due to future Liability Issues....

I am thinking that the same disks AND Silk Screening is the way to go.... Sublimation will stand up to the liquid filled gages but any sunlight and you have a problem....

I epoxy domed over the Aluminum. The Purple faded to almost yellow....

AL

[Bryan Cowan]

This is the standard disk done in Sublimation.....

Sublimation is NOT UV Resistant... It will fade over time....

I printed some samples and some Fire Truck Pump Control handles.... Looked GREAT.... The display sat in on a table at a Fire Dept Supply Store and the Sun faded some of the labels and disks... I dropped the product due to future Liability Issues....

I am thinking that the same disks AND Silk Screening is the way to go.... Sublimation will stand up to the liquid filled gages but any sunlight and you have a problem....

AL

http://www.artainium.com/index.php - ArTainium UV+
But I'd be hard pressed to find any information on their website stating it is resistant to UV rays.

[AL Ursich]

I called them and talked to Customer Service and the ink is slightly more UV Resistant than my IQ inks. She said they DO NOT recommend using it for a outside or sunlight exposed option.

Coatings like Frog Juice will help.

AL

[Martin Boekers]

A heads up on Epson 1400 It has issues with the paper feed. This printer has a door that opens to print on CD's if the door isn't registered as closed the paper feeds straight through. Through research this seems to be a common problem.

I have discussed this with Epson Tech Support was told to buy a new printer:eek:

Further research I tracked down a phone number to Epson Corporate they acknowledge the problem and agreed to replace if with a re-furb (that was good!) 3 months later same thing quit working. No more Epson for me. Over engineered. Just give me a basic printer. Does anyone really print on CD's?

It's aggravating and time consuming to keep feeding paper through until one clicks. Bulk feed tubes jam all the time (after market) if I didn't have a few $$ in ink I would have replaced it by now. Printers seem to manufacturer's point of view a disposable item.

I'm probably going the Ricoh Gel Ink route soon as I have heard good things about them.

[Bryan Cowan]

I called them and talked to Customer Service and the ink is slightly more UV Resistant than my IQ inks. She said they DO NOT recommend using it for a outside or sunlight exposed option.

Coatings like Frog Juice will help.

AL

Are there a lot of UV rays inside these days? Wow, what's the point of marketing UV+ ink when you really shouldn't use it where UV rays can attack it? :confused:

[Larry Bratton]

I called them and talked to Customer Service and the ink is slightly more UV Resistant than my IQ inks. She said they DO NOT recommend using it for a outside or sunlight exposed option.

Coatings like Frog Juice will help.

AL
Not much of anything that is totally UV resistant in the printing and ink realm. Coatings like Frog Juice and Clear Star will help but not a cure at all. Lamination will help also. Reds are especially susceptible. Even paint will fade after a while.

Like Mike said, if your doing small runs, consider laser toner transfer. It would probably hold up as well as sublimation if the item is not washed in a dishwasher on a regular basis. Plus you can put it on most anything. Sublimation requires specially coated substrates.

[Ross Moshinsky]

As said previously, volume is the key to dye sub. If you don't have sufficient volume your printer will clog and in the process of cleaning/unclogging it will drink ink. Sub ink may be about the same price as gold.

I buy my transfers from My Transfer Source. (after I trashed my printer and gave away my sub ink)

I do laser sublimation, black only and get outstanding results.

I also do laser sublimation. It really is easy. We have CMYK. Does your laser only work on colored substrates? We've done white, and it always looks AWFUL. It always picks up all the dust on the paper and transfers to the white. It's really annoying. Otherwise, we've been pretty happy with our HP4550. We're on our second printer though, but we bought used the first time so it is what it is.

As for the new sublimation inks from Johnsons and Sawmill. The results are good/great. I'm just not sure if having to deal with clogged heads is worth the effort for an occasional sublimator. At the same time, I can't see sublimation being a great business to be in. It seems like there is a lot of competition. I like the sublimation printers to compliment the business. Not to stand alone. If I have to worry about clogged heads because I don't use it every day, that would hurt the chances of me buying. It doesn't really matter, I'm not in the market for a dye sublimation setup this year. Probably in 1-2 years I'll start looking at them again.

[David Harvey]

Well...thanks to all for the 'very deep insights' to dye-sub. I can understand the problem with ink jets clogging up and the need to keep the print heads 'fluid' by often use. My Roland would do the same thing, but they have it engineered to take care of itself by running a quick head cleaning periodically on it's own to prevent that.
Being 'not in the dye-sub' business yet, my printing needs would be very, very low to start with should I get started.
I think that what I will most likely do is to utilize the services from My Transfer Source, as some here have recommended. It would be a little more expensive, per item, but I wouldn't have to worry about the initial startup costs and run the risk of damaging a printer for lack of use....not to mention the cost of those ink cartridges (wow! they cost as much as the ones for my Roland printer/cutter). And... it will give me time to check the market and see if there is a need here for that service.

Thanks all! Great help...

[Ron Chapellaz]

David, I sent you a PM.

[AL Ursich]

Are there a lot of UV rays inside these days? Wow, what's the point of marketing UV+ ink when you really shouldn't use it where UV rays can attack it? :confused:

Your right, it all comes back to application.... Could be NO UV... Depending on where the gage is located.

I still have a bunch of 2 inch disks.. I can print you up some and see how they work...

I have some Sublimated stuff out on the deck in the sun and a duplicate in a box inside that I use to show the difference in 2 years of sun... They are still readable.... Just not as bright....

CLTT might need to be post baked to harden it up.. Since the gage could be fluid filled.

What do they use for fluid? Mineral Oil?

AL

[Dave Gates]

I just got the GX7000 a few weeks back. It is way better than the epson 4800 and 4880 I used to run. The printer hasn't clogged once so far(knock on wood). Also, the GX7000 prints extremely fast compared to the epsons.

I also have a laser system...a hp 4550. It works really good for black prints and simple( clipart) images on gold and silver aluminum. I've been using http://www.sublibrite.com/ for toner supplies.

[Mike Null]

One of the characteristics of laser sublimation on white is that you get "ghosting". It can't be avoided so most laser sub is done on silver or gold where the ghosting doesn't show.

[Rodne Gold]

Why do you want to do dye sub when you have a SP300? What are you intending to do?

[Bryan Cowan]

Your right, it all comes back to application.... Could be NO UV... Depending on where the gage is located.

I still have a bunch of 2 inch disks.. I can print you up some and see how they work...

I have some Sublimated stuff out on the deck in the sun and a duplicate in a box inside that I use to show the difference in 2 years of sun... They are still readable.... Just not as bright....

CLTT might need to be post baked to harden it up.. Since the gage could be fluid filled.

What do they use for fluid? Mineral Oil?

AL

We use quite a bit of different fill fluids; Mineral Oil, Glycerine, Halocarbon, Glycerine/Water mix, Silicone, etc. Glycerine is our standard fill.

We wouldn't use sublimation as mass production but rather custom dials we do for OEMs where a minimum quantity wouldn't be as high and where the lead times aren't as long. Perhaps we could also stipulate these gauges are to be used where no UV rays are present and/or the dials are susceptible to UV damage and may fade over time. I'd let management come up with their own disclaimer.

I could send you some blank dials (2.5", 4", and 6" diameters) with artwork if you'd be interested. My first concern would be the quality of the sublimation; UV protection 2nd.

Bryan

[AL Ursich]

We use quite a bit of different fill fluids; Mineral Oil, Glycerine, Halocarbon, Glycerine/Water mix, Silicone, etc. Glycerine is our standard fill.

We wouldn't use sublimation as mass production but rather custom dials we do for OEMs where a minimum quantity wouldn't be as high and where the lead times aren't as long. Perhaps we could also stipulate these gauges are to be used where no UV rays are present and/or the dials are susceptible to UV damage and may fade over time. I'd let management come up with their own disclaimer.

I could send you some blank dials (2.5", 4", and 6" diameters) with artwork if you'd be interested. My first concern would be the quality of the sublimation; UV protection 2nd.

Bryan

I only have 2 inch blanks.

AL