I need some much needed staining advice, please! Thank you in advance!

[Chris Williams 2975]

I am finishing a small table that was built with poplar. I am desperately trying to get it to match another piece that has a dark mahogany with reddish cherry tints in it. So far I have prepped it for finish, applied two coats of General Finish Mahogany Brown (Dark) Gel Stain with 10+ hours between the two. I then went by my local Woodcraft store and inquired with them and was told to switch to General Finish Java Gel Stain. It darkened it a bit, but not much. I then waited an additional 9 hours and applied a Minwax Brazilian Red (I think this is the name) and just wiped excess off. It has darkened a tad from the first coat at the beginning, but not much and it certainly isn't getting any reddish tint.

I am at a loss, partly because I am a fairly new woodworker, and also this is starting to get a bit costly with the trial and error process. I know, I know, I should have perfected my color on scrap, but I didn't and lesson learned. However, I am too far into the process to beat myself up over this now and am just trying to find some resolve.

Do I sand down and start over? Would be a tedious process to say the least as it has some rope trim that is time consuming.

Anyway, just thought I would throw this out and get some opinions or ideas if possible. Thanks so much in advance and Happy Easter to all!

[Roger Jensen]

I'm hesitant to answer, since I'm sure someone with more experience will jump in here, but I think you've reached the point where additional stain isn't going to help, you're just going to keep wiping it off.

To add more color you're probably going to have to start toning, which you can make up by coloring your top coat. While you can use a stain to color your topcoat, I believe most folks use a dye.

Toning masks the grain a bit, but poplar doesn't have much to start with so I don't think you'll miss it too much.

I'd make some test pieces of poplar exactly like your current state of the table. It doesn't make sense to keep experimenting on your actual product. Apply the same staining steps on some scraps (a LOT of them) and apply a toner of different strength dye.

Keep notes on your tests and wrtie the mixtures on the scraps. You'll be surprised how quickly they can get mixed up and you have to start over.

Good luck.

Roger

[Doug Hobkirk]

I find second/third/fourth applications of stain, including gel, don't do much more than the initial application. I have about 30 different stains but I am finding I use one of my 3 TransTint dyes more and more often. A second application does make a difference and you can mix colors. Your description sounds like a lot of pieces I do where I need to match the top (after sanding) to the bottom of the piece - I find I tend to use both Cordovan and Brown Mahogany dyes. Most of the stains leave a somewhat lustrous finish - the dye finish is flat. I use shellac or Minwax wipe-on satin poly. I can hear the boos already, but it works for me (and FWW rated it #1 in their poly test, IIRC).

If it were me, I would sand it down and start fresh with dye. Of course I don't have to go out and buy more stuff to do that.

I mix the dye with water. Put the dye on thickly (I brush - seems like it wastes less dye) and let it soak in. Sand lightly with whatever grit you use (I usually use 180, light, going with the grain) to make the grain flat again.

Good luck.

[Callan Campbell]

I'm not good with finishes either, I learn or triumph from each project. You might be able to apply a coat of Shellac, then add a glaze on top of it to color the project to your liking. I highly recommend this book, Bob Flexner, "Understanding Wood Finishing". It's been updated, so grab the latest copy if possible. He states the above, you are sealing your base color in, under the Shellac, or another sealer of your choice. Then, apply a glaze or a gel stain. Play with this until you get the color you want. Not right?, wipe it off, using a solvent that WILL not affect the sealer you applied to the first finish layer. Like, no alcohol if you applied Shellac, or no Lacquer Thinner if you used Lacquer. I'd use Naptha or a low VOC mineral spirits to "redo" the glaze coat/color if it's not to your liking. Then,keep at it until you're happy.
Finally, you have to top coat the glaze coat to keep it safe from harm and wear/tear. Your choice on a clear finish, ie, Varnish, Shellac, Lacquer etc.
I'd also stick to a oil base product since you're used so many oil based stains for that first layer.:o

[Chris Williams 2975]

Many thanks to all!! Decisions, decisions...

I may try the topcoat, glazing technique first as I have the materials readily available.

If no luck it sounds fairly reversible.

I will keep you posted...THANKS AGAIN!!!! HAPPY EASTER!!!!

[Richard Wolf]

I know this does not qualify as a heirloom finish, but, when I need a dark red finish on maple or poplar, I use Minwax ployshades. It's a stain and ploy together. The first coat looks ugly, but the more coats you use, the darker it gets and better it looks, if that is the look you want. I realize this product seems like a DIY type finish, but sometimes that is what is needed, sounds like what you need.

Richard

[Joe Chritz]

Polyshades is essentially a toner that uses slow drying polyurethane instead of a faster drying spray finish like lacquer or shellac.

You are likely to the point where it is a bunch of samples to see if you can accomplish what you need to from where you are at.

Joe

[dale rex]

what type of clear finish were you planning on using? If you plan to spray lacquer, you can add some red mahogany Trans-tint dye to the lacquer to get more red in the final finish. If you are planning on using poly, then the suggestion of using Polyshades is a good one. Just pick a reddish color and make some tests over top of the same stain combo you already have and use the Ployshades as your toner.But you have to be careful with it as it will darken the finish fairly rapidly with each coat you apply. Make test boards and experiment. have fun!

[Glen Butler]

I know this does not qualify as a heirloom finish, but, when I need a dark red finish on maple or poplar, I use Minwax ployshades. It's a stain and ploy together. The first coat looks ugly, but the more coats you use, the darker it gets and better it looks, if that is the look you want. I realize this product seems like a DIY type finish, but sometimes that is what is needed, sounds like what you need.

Richard

+1. This is what I was going to suggest.

[Chris Williams 2975]

Again, thanks to all! Just a quick question for Richard...what color Polyshade do you usually use? Thanks! Hope everyone had a wonderful day celebrating God's Grace for us!

[Richard Wolf]

Bombay

Richard

[Frank Drew]

Chris,

In the future, if you want a mahogany or cherry look, consider using mahogany or cherry and save yourself a lot of time and headaches. Just sayin' is all ....