Sawstop ICS versus PCS

[james bell]

Based on all the responses to my "Sawstop Reviews" it appears that those of you who own them love them. My dilemma now is whether to go for the ICS or the PCS.

At a recent trade show, the Sawstop rep highly recommended the PCS over the ICS - which I thought was either a little strange or completely honest.

Anyway, the list price for both with 52" fence/extension table is about a $600 difference, and this being the last table saw I will purchase, worth the extra money if the ICS is that much better. HOWEVER, the dealers in Virginia are adding either $400 to $450 surcharge on the ICS for 'shipping from the factory to the store', but not on the PCS model. Either the profit margins are much better on the PCS or maybe being a new saw they are trying to gain market share. But this surcharge makes the ICS over $1000 more (plus 5% state tax).

So, is the ICS worth $1000+ over the PCS?

thanks ... jim

[Paul Ryan]

Jim,


It really is up to you. What are you going to do with the saw. Is it for home use? Will you ever operate a business with it? Those are the big questions. I own the PCS and am completely happy with it. Right now I am just a hobbiest, but if that changes to a small business (just me) I know the saw will hold up just fine. There are a couple of reasons for the ICS heavy weight other than just trunion size. The trunion on the ICS is larger, but that doesn't account for the 140lb difference, the table on the ICS is 3" deeper, and the blade shroud is cast iron. Weight ratings dont always tell the strength of a saw. Look at the general 650, widely considered a very stout saw. It only weighs 490lbs. So a saw doesn't have to weigh a ton to be strong and well built. The ICS also has a longer warranty that commands a higher price. The sawstop reps will provide you with the best advice as far as I am concerned though. Look at it this way, they want to sell you a saw. They will listen to what you plan on doing and suggest the proper machine for you. They know what their machines will do. In my dealing with sawstop their customer service has been 2nd to none just like their saws. I think they would also gladly talk to you over the phone if you would like more advice. The ICS is being marketed now for business owners, schools, and manufacturing facilities. Is it worth $1300 more than the PCS, that is up to you.

My opinion is unless you ever plan on hiring employees and have a saw that is running 8 hours a day 5 days a week, the PCS will be the last saw you will ever need.

[Peter Aeschliman]

The PCS also comes with the blade guard with dust collection... the ICS does not (yet).

I played around with the ICS at the store before picking up the PCS. It's definitely a heavier duty machine, but the PCS is plenty heavy duty for the hobbiest or small commercial shop.

I'd ask the sales rep if the 3hp ICS and PCS share the same motor. From there, the real difference is weight and the larger table on the ICS.

[Mike Henderson]

Regarding the shipping, when I bought my PCS, my dealer told me that he got free shipping if he bought a certain number in a single order. My guess is that the store sells more PCS units than ICS units and is willing to order the PCS "in volume".

I've been happy with the PCS and certainly don't need more.

Mike

[Dave Mendoza]

I have the ICS and I'm very happy with it. I'm also a hobbyist, but that was the only saw that was available at the time. I would certainly work with your dealer. They are having a tough time right now. I live in northern Virginia and I've been astonished at the deals I have been able to work out. Sawstops aren't discounted, but I'm sure you have other items on your wish list. They will certainly work out a deal for those wish list items. I know when I purchased my Sawstop, I got a great deal on other items. They even came over to my house to install everything.

[Chip Lindley]

Buy the heavier more expensive saw. That way you will never worry about *what might have been* or *the big one that got away!* One might as well get all the bang-for-the-buck they can get when spending big bucks on a new SawStop!! What's an extra $600???

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I have an ICS. I find it hard to believe that the difference in the saw price is "only" 600 bucks. That being the case, as mentioned earlier, what's an extra 600 bucks on a 3K saw? Bigger table is almost always better. Good luck on your decision. You will be happy. IF you venture into the ICS, the question will then beome, 3 hp or 5. What's another extra couple hundred. Get the 5 horse. It does not slow down for anything.

Whatever model you buy, get the SS mobile base. It's the most expensive base out there, but well worth the money, in my not so humble opinion. :)

[Mike Heidrick]

I have the ICS and love the larger table - 3" larger than my old delta 36-752 hybrid had. The PCS was not available when I bought mine. I also payed $350 for " to store shipping" back in 2006 when I still had to drive 80 miles round trip to the store to pick it up. BS IMO. To my house shipping was $600 :eek: So I ordered the 5hp model and did make them actually ship one since I was being charged - they wanted to charge me $300 for a saw that was already in the store. I question if the store was really charged $300 by sawstop honestly.

The 600lb weight is no joke so consider that when choosing. I installed a workbench on my HTC base - Would have been more challenging to do that with the other sawstop base - but that $300 base is the best if a base is all you want.

[james bell]

Yes, $600 is not a lot on a $3000 machine, but my problem was the extra $400 for shipping, thus now being a $1000+. For over $4K there are some nice saws out there, but the reason for the Sawstop is the brake.

There are two locations in Northern VA which sells them - Fries-Beall-Sharp and Woodcraft. I have spoken to both but have not gone into the store yet to see what negotiations they can do, knowing they are not allowed to lower the Sawstop price. My next step will be to visit them, but about 125 miles away so not a 15 minute ride (especially with the NoVa trafffic!).

I am a hobbyist but being retired use my table saw daily, but not full time as a production shop.

I would have 'assumed' the ones with the ICS like them, but very glad to hear the ones with the PCS haven't had buyer's remorse on not getting the ICS.

[Mike Archambeau]

I have talked to two Sawstop dealers near where I live. One of those dealers charges $400 dollars for shipping to their store, then $150 to ship to my house. The other dealer charges nothing to ship to their store. Their store is less than 10 miles from my home, making the ship to final destination a pretty modest sum. The nice thing about the second dealer is they have two Sawstop table saws setup in a workshop and you can build a project in their shop and take all the time you need to get comfortable with the saw before you decide to pull the trigger. The dealer with the shop and the good deal on shipping is a Woodcraft store.

Not sure if Woodcraft is an option for yo where you live, but worth looking into if it saves the shipping cost.

[Paul Ryan]

James,

I will add a little more. A month before I bought my PCS I was shopping the ICS very hard. Trying to justify the expense to myself. All said and done at the time Feb, 09 a 36" ICS with 3hp including a mobile base, extra throat plate(dado), dado cartridge, spare cartridge, tax, and shipping. IT was slightly over $4800. I bought my PCS with all of the trimings for $3000. To me the ICS is not worth $1800 more, but that is because I will never use the saw to that capacity. However I bought the PCS during field test so I got a good discount. I think the same PCS saw would run me $3500 now. So that is down to a $1300 difference, still not worth it to me. The saws are $600 difference but the mobile base on the ICS runs $120 more, there is the shipping cost, and more tax. If it were only $600 I would buy the ICS, for the reasons Chip stated. But you have to decide, either way it is a sawstop, and you will be thrilled with your purchase, they are excellent table saws.

[james bell]

Paul Ryan - good info as you appeared to be in the same situation I am. Difficult to pull the trigger on a $3200 tool, especially when the Unisaw is still good, but I just did not want to regret digging deep for the extra money for the more expensive one. Appears I will be heading to a store soon to shop for the PCS.

Many thanks all ... jim

[Don Bullock]

I have the ICS and I'm very happy with it. I'm also a hobbyist, but that was the only saw that was available at the time. I would certainly work with your dealer. ...

I fully agree with Dave. My ICS is fantastic. I got great service from my dealer when I bought it. The shipping charge on that saw was "part of the price" but some dealers know of ways to wave the fee without SS finding out. The dealer even subsidized my home delivery with a liftgate. Before the saw was delivered he set it up and checked out all the adjustments. The saw was ready to use when the delivery driver rolled it into my shop. Since 5hp was only $200 more than the 3hp I upgraded. Before you decide on the 5hp ICS make sure that you have a 30 amp dedicated breaker for it.

[james bell]

I have a steel building (Rhino) for my shop and one nice feature about it is that I can run a new circuit whenever I either get a new toy or move the tools around. So no studs or drywall to contend with!

[Charlie Kocourek]

I bought my SS a few years ago. I guess I have the ICS. Anyway, it is a great saw. Now I want to add the blade guard dust collector.

[jason lambert]

I have the ics the pcs was not out when I got my ICS. I love it and the big table. A couple of other points.

Are you going to move it, the PCS moves much better, there are time I want to move my ICS and unless the ground is perfically flat the mobial base doesn't work well, forget about getting it out of my gurage over the 1" lip.

How is your room. The ICS is bigger.

Over all if I was not going to move it and had the room it ics is the way to go.

However if you are a hobbiest and using it once in a while they are both great saws.