Question about buying some planes

[Derek Gilmer]

Like many others I find myself really wanting to try hand tools but I'm on a limited budget. It is very had to pay the same price for one LN plane as I'd pay for a new jointer from grizzly. Not that they are over priced but at this stage in my hand tool learning I can't justify it. However I have found someone with older stanley planes for sale. They are a little rough but he is going to clean, sharpen and tune them up a bit compared to the pictures attached. I'll be going to look at them in person and will bring some cherry and red oak to test them on to look for good ribbon shavings ( I think that is a good test?). What other things should I be looking for and what would a good price for these be?

Here are the three planes I"m going to look at/buy:
The No. 7 is a Type 11 dates 1910-1918
The No. 6 is a Type 14 dates 1929-1930
The No. 5 is a Type 19 dates 1948-1961

And pictures, I've got more pics but I seem to have hit the attachment limit.
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[Derek Gilmer]

The rest of the pics
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[Joe Cunningham]

I'd bring a straight-edge and feeler gauge too and check the sole. It doesn't have to be completely flat to do its job, but critical areas do need to be coplanar. This is probably only critical for the #7 or #6 if you use them as a jointer. The #5, if you use as a typical jack, probably just needs to have adjustments working, nothing major bent, etc.

Not sure I can link this, but if a mod rips it out, go to woodworking magazine blog and search for "Sole of an Old Machine".

http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/The+Sole+Of+An+Old+Machine.aspx

[Zach Dillinger]

Derek,

You might get other opinions, but I'd probably pass on the #6 and buy the 7 and 5. Save the money you'd spend on the 6 and instead pick up either a 3 or 4 for smoothing duties. I have and use my number 6 regularly, but if you are just starting out, having a 5, 6 and 7 will give you a lot of overlap in the larger planes with nothing for smoothing. If you'd like, I can probably dig up a smoother for you on the cheap. PM me and let me know.

Zach

[Derek Gilmer]

He also has a craftsman #4 smoother. I haven't been able to find much about their quality like the older stanley's. Zach, thanks for the info on the overlap between 7, 6 and 5. Depending on how the craftsman looks I may go for the 7 and 5 as you suggest and his #4.

Or depending on what I can find about the craftsman I may skip it and send you a pm about a smoother :)

Here are pics of the smaller planes he has:
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[Zach Dillinger]

Derek,

I think you should also pick up that Sargent knuckle cap block plane, if you can swing it. You'll want one eventually and it could be a good buy if the price is right.

Craftsman planes can be ok, depending on the era it was made and who made it. Can't tell by that pic.

Let me know if you need anything!

Zach

[scott spencer]

Derek,

You might get other opinions, but I'd probably pass on the #6 and buy the 7 and 5. Save the money you'd spend on the 6 and instead pick up either a 3 or 4 for smoothing duties. I have and use my number 6 regularly, but if you are just starting out, having a 5, 6 and 7 will give you a lot of overlap in the larger planes with nothing for smoothing. If you'd like, I can probably dig up a smoother for you on the cheap. PM me and let me know.

Zach

I like Zach's suggestion. A 4, 5, & 7 will be more versatile for starting out than a 5,6 & 7 IMO.

Prices can be hard to judge because there are so many stories of people snagging them for $5 at yard sales. There's not much that catches my eye to suggest that these will fetch a premium...nothing rare, nothing in mint shape, nothing real old, some broken totes, average condition, etc., but the tuning and sharpening might be worth something to you. Roughly, I'd guess that #7 would run in the $50-$100 range, the #5 in the $25-$60 range, and the Craftsman #4 in the $15-$35 range. I'd prefer to hold out for a better #4 unless it's a steal and works great....Bailey/Bedrock, Sargent/VBM, Record, Millers Falls, Union, etc.

[David Keller NC]

I've a slightly alternate opinion. I'd get a #6, a #7 or #8, and a #3, #4 or #4-1/2. That gives you a fore or roughing plane (the #6), a jointer (the #7 or #8), and a smoother (the #3, #4, or #4-1/2). Note that you'll want to set these planes up differently to effectively do their job.

One other comment - I wouldn't be in too much haste to buy the specific planes you've pictured unless they're really bargain-basement. It looks as if they're going to need a good deal of TLC to be brought back from the undead, and you can get near-perfect examples of the #6 for about $75, about $100 -$200 for near mint #7 or #8, and perhaps $60-$85 for #3 or #4.

[Jim Koepke]

It is difficult to make a judgement without knowing what kind of prices are being asked.

Though, I imaging the #7 would do a better job than a Grizzly jointer.

jim

[Bill Houghton]

He also has a craftsman #4 smoother. I haven't been able to find much about their quality like the older stanley's.

Some of the Craftsman planes were made by Stanley, Millers-Falls, Sargent - and are good tools. Some of them were apparently made by five-year-olds on a bad kindergarten day and aren't. The older the logo, the better. From the photo, it looks like 1960 or newer - hard to tell.

Still, if the price is right, it's worth looking at.

[Prashun Patel]

I humbly suggest you start with a #4 or low angle block (60 1/2, or 102 type). They are easier to get a handle of. The key to success at handplanes is knowing how a well tuned one is supposed to cut and feel. It's easier to do this with smaller planes, IMHO.

To that end, consider buying a new LN or LV 102 or 60 1/2. At between $80 and $150, they are arguably the best value for yr money in the entire plane world, they cut like butter out of the box, and they're amazingly versatile. From there, you can try yr hand at 'fettling' the larger planes.

Last, if you DO buy used, at least buy a new blade. It'll in general be harder, more square, and easier to hone than a used, old one. This will ease a lot of initial frustration (DAMHIKT).

[Derek Gilmer]

The asking price for the planes is $40 each for the 5, 6 and 7 or $100 for the lot. The sell is going to tune/clean/fix them up to good condition. It is only a 30 or 40 minute drive to go see them. And there are other errands to run on the way. I'll take all the good advice here and check them out. If they work beautifully I'll come home with the 5, 7 and maybe others :)

[David Gendron]

IMO, make im an offer on the intire lot, based on the $100 for the 3 planes!
My favorit plane is the #6, I use it every day. #4, #6, #8 and a LA block are the plane I wouldn't go with out!
Keep us updated on your purchass!

[Dave Anderson NH]

Derek, That Craftman #4 clone was the first hand plane I bought about 35+ years ago. My advice is run like the wind away. While that version can be made to work, the effort and time involved would be better spent restoring a plane worthy of the effort. I figure mine had about 6 hours in it before it did even a halfway decent job of performing its designed function. I still have it stored away as a reminder of the true cost of skimping.

[Derek Gilmer]

Sadly my shop still has no planes in it. The trip wasn't wasted, I got to meet a really nice fellow woodworker and look at some old planes. But they just didn't feel right. Maybe I was expecting the wrong thing but in pine they took quite a bit of effort to trim wood. Compared to podcasts I've seen of people planing hardwoods imo the blades weren't quite in great condition. Which the seller agreed with, he is still learning to sharpen.

Thanks again for all the advice here. Had I not had the help I probably would have bought the planes and hoped for the best.

I will say this, even though they weren't top notch planes it was fun! I see why handtools are so addictive. Something very special about working wood by hand instead of feeding it into a screaming best that will take fingers off. Back to looking around for a affordable way to get my foot in the neanderthal door :)

[Dwain Lambrigger]

Derek,

Make some contacts here and buy a couple of planes from a creeker. I am sure you will get a very good plane for a fair price. That will get you started. I agree with previous posts, go for a low angle block plane first, then move to the 3, 4.5, 5 and 7. You will then have a very adequate set of planes!

Good Luck!

Dwain

[Larry Marshall]

I won't add any 'which plane to buy' advice as the advice given is good enough, and varied enough, to sufficiently confuse you :-) I will, however, address your comment that you were going to look for fine shavings when you got to see them in person.

It's a rare thing indeed to buy an old plane and have its blade keen enough to take 'wispy shavings' at the point of sale. For many planing functions, you don't even want wispy shavings. You're going to have to sharpen the blade in any case so be prepared to learn to sharpen and fettle these planes to get them in working order.

Cheers --- Larry
http://www.woodnbits.com/blog

[David Weaver]

Sadly my shop still has no planes in it. The trip wasn't wasted, I got to meet a really nice fellow woodworker and look at some old planes. But they just didn't feel right. Maybe I was expecting the wrong thing but in pine they took quite a bit of effort to trim wood. Compared to podcasts I've seen of people planing hardwoods imo the blades weren't quite in great condition. Which the seller agreed with, he is still learning to sharpen.

Thanks again for all the advice here. Had I not had the help I probably would have bought the planes and hoped for the best.

I will say this, even though they weren't top notch planes it was fun! I see why handtools are so addictive. Something very special about working wood by hand instead of feeding it into a screaming best that will take fingers off. Back to looking around for a affordable way to get my foot in the neanderthal door :)

They just weren't sharp and the bottoms weren't clean. Any of those three could be made to sail through pine.

His asking price of $100 for the lot is probably middling or a little above - fair if you're not buying them out of a bucket at a flea market and you live somewhere that you rarely see them in the wild (certainly not a "deal", though), but none of them are junk planes (some may argue the 5 is a bit new, but they can be made to work fine), they just need a little help/cleaning/time/sharpening.

It'll be on the less common side that you find old planes that are sharp and tuned.

If you're on the fence, I wouldn't be afraid to go back and offer him a couple of bucks less knowing you'll grow into them.