Something I don't understand about the Sawstop design

[Josiah Bartlett]

My understanding of the Sawstop is that it brakes the blade and disappears it under the table. Why not just disappear it under the table and dont' destructively brake the blade? It would seem to be just as safe that way and then you wouldn't have to buy a new blade if you tripped the safety.

[ben grossman]

The Saw Stop uses the kinetic energy of the rotating blade to retract the blade. If you watch their videos, it makes a lot of sense. I am not sure there is another way that can be done cheaply that would accomplish the same thing. The type of servos required to react that fast would probably be far more expensive than the brake kit and a new blade.

[Dan Friedrichs]

If it could be done, I'm sure they'd do it - it's not like they make blades...

On a side note, I never understand why people are even remotely concerned about the blade. If it tripped unintentionally (cutting wet wood or metal film or whatever), then I can see being annoyed, but it was clearly the operator's fault. If it tripped from actually touching it, why would you care about $70 for a blade?

[Howard Acheson]

The brake stops the blade faster than the blade can be retracted.

[Mike Archambeau]

When that blade retracts below the table, does the handwheel turn? Seems if the blade stays on the arbor, that the blade raising mechanism has to spin to retract the blade.

[Brian Muecke]

When that blade retracts below the table, does the handwheel turn? Seems if the blade stays on the arbor, that the blade raising mechanism has to spin to retract the blade.
no. the arbor is hinged. The catch which holds it in place during normal operation releases under the stress of the brake activation.

[Dave Verstraete]

Mike
There is some type of release from the mechanism. I had it trigger on some wet wood. I had to lower the blade mechanism to its lowest point and then it re-engages

[Van Huskey]

If it could be done, I'm sure they'd do it - it's not like they make blades...

On a side note, I never understand why people are even remotely concerned about the blade. If it tripped unintentionally (cutting wet wood or metal film or whatever), then I can see being annoyed, but it was clearly the operator's fault. If it tripped from actually touching it, why would you care about $70 for a blade?


Well they sell blades but it is a non-issue.

The design is what it is and they have no incentive to improve it, it works and no one else has it. My guess any design that saves the blade is on the "shelf" until others are able to follow suit then the blade saving tech (if when it exists) becomes a value added feature for Saw stop OR matches the others design. Personally, I think the $100 + for a blade IS an issue but a minor one. I know people who have spent 500+ bucks on false fires which is fine for the safety factor (for them) but it would be even nicer if it didn't ruin a blade.

[Dan Friedrichs]

I know people who have spent 500+ bucks on false fires which is fine for the safety factor (for them) but it would be even nicer if it didn't ruin a blade.

True. But all these "false fires" are not happening in dry wood. These are incidences of people cutting wet wood or metal. If these people aren't worried enough about the $70 blade to avoid doing that (or testing it beforehand and enabling bypass mode), they apparently aren't too worried about the cost of the blade.

[Brian Penning]

Actually, I think more often than not the blade is salvageable. Mine's hit my WW II twice(dumb miter gauge's fault:o) and it's been repaired by Forrest.

[mreza Salav]

I have thought about having a sacrificial "blade" type thing that the brake would engage into (instead of eating the blade). There are some problems with that idea though and I am sure Sawstop designers have entertained that idea before.

[Robert gree]

i see 2 reasons.

1. there using the blades energy,

2. there aluminum block which is 65 bucks is destroyed everytime the the saw is tripped, if they didnt stop the blade and just retracted the blade they just lost 65 bucks

[Ryan Baker]

You will never be able to retract the blade fast enough to save your flesh. You have to stop the blade rotation. Dropping it below the table is extra, and mostly unnecessary once the blade has stopped. Watch the high speed video of the thing firing. The blade stops and then there is quite a lag before the blade drops. Check out the footage from "Time Warp" if you haven't seen it.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Folks,

I don't own a SS and will never buy one. I don't have a dog in this fight.


That being said,

I don't think the sale of a $65 block of aluminum is the reason.

I suspect that neither the brake block engagement or the retraction of the retraction of the blade will do it fast enough to produce the desire results or.................

Say one fails....say the blade block fails to fire.....yup...if the blade drops...you have a backup system.....and visa versa.

Either way.......I don't think the $65 aluminum block has anything to do with it.

[Randal Stevenson]

Folks,

I don't own a SS and will never buy one. I don't have a dog in this fight.


That being said,

I don't think the sale of a $65 block of aluminum is the reason.

I suspect that neither the brake block engagement or the retraction of the retraction of the blade will do it fast enough to produce the desire results or.................

Say one fails....say the blade block fails to fire.....yup...if the blade drops...you have a backup system.....and visa versa.

Either way.......I don't think the $65 aluminum block has anything to do with it.


Also don't own or need one. My understanding is the block is effectively pushed (spring, explosive charge, whatever means) into the blade. While the Kinetic energy gets redirected from spinning the blade, and into projecting the brake back towards its housing, the block serves another purpose. The block stops the blade from moving/cutting! Ever got something pinched, and the "pincher" pulls you back with it? Imagine a blade cutting (in your whatever part) and you start getting yanked toward the table while it tries to go under the table.
So while the brake stops the initial damage (cutting), the falling stops secondary (trip, off of balance into the blade), damage.

[Dave Cav]

Actually, I think more often than not the blade is salvageable. Mine's hit my WW II twice(dumb miter gauge's fault:o) and it's been repaired by Forrest.

We have had one trip on our ICS at school so far. The student swore he never touched the blade. I was able to salvage the blade (sent it out for sharpening) and sent the brake cartridge to SS so they could read the chip. They said the stored data was consistent with a finger strike, and sent me a free new cartridge. The only thing I can figure is the student's finger touched the side of the saw plate based on my observation of his operation of the saw.

[Daniel Shnitka]

Has happened, with fingers or wet wood. Watching the video shows no material being pulled or jammed into the table saw plate insert zero clearance or otherwise.

[kenneth kayser]

Saw stop has done a very good job of reducing false stops to a minimum.

Dropping the blade increases safety. Falling into a jammed blade could but a nasty gash into a forearm. Dropping the blade also reduces stresses on other parts of the saw by helping to dissipate kinetic energy.

[John A. Callaway]

I would be more concerned about stopping the blade versus dropping it. If it drops while still spinning... I think depending on where your finger is over the blade, it could still cut you more, or try to drag your finger...by the bone maybe...down into the saw. I dont know if what I am saying makes sense ...but I guess it does... stopping the blade stops the cut. even if the cut is in your finger...

[Brian D Anderson]

I guess this is a good place to tell you all about a little piece of information I learned a while ago:

I don't know exactly when, but a few years ago a large number of table saw manufactures got together and contracted out a small R&D firm in Silicon Valley to come up with a design for a blade braking system, similar to the Saw Stop, but not infringing on their patents. How do I know this? My best friend worked at that R&D firm.

So they came up with a design that not only stopped the blade faster than the Saw Stop, it also didn't destroy the blade either. He said their recharge "kit" was going to be fairly cheap, like a $20 CO2 type of cartridge.

My friend told me a few things about the project that were of interest. He said there was plenty of prior art to get around the Saw Stop patent. Just because the inventor happened to be a patent attorney doesn't mean he had the technology completely covered. He also thought the tool companies were really just covering themselves in the event that they were required to provide the technology on their saws. He wasn't sure if their design would ever make it to market.

His R&D company gave the base design to the tool companies with the idea that they could modify/design their own versions if they so chose to.

That's the last I really heard of it as my friend left the company last summer.

I keep waiting for one of the manufacturers to unveil their braking system.

-Brian

BTW, This was all second hand knowledge through my friend, so the details may not be 100% accurate.

[johnny means]

as I understand it, the blade dropping action of the sawstop was originally designed in order to protect the arbor and trunnion mechanism from the force of the blade stopping. That's why the arbor assembly is supported by a gas shock until the brake fires. Not sure where I heard this, but I'm pretty sure it was an interview with Steve Gass.

[Paul Ryan]

I guess this is a good place to tell you all about a little piece of information I learned a while ago:

I don't know exactly when, but a few years ago a large number of table saw manufactures got together and contracted out a small R&D firm in Silicon Valley to come up with a design for a blade braking system, similar to the Saw Stop, but not infringing on their patents. How do I know this? My best friend worked at that R&D firm.

So they came up with a design that not only stopped the blade faster than the Saw Stop, it also didn't destroy the blade either. He said their recharge "kit" was going to be fairly cheap, like a $20 CO2 type of cartridge.

My friend told me a few things about the project that were of interest. He said there was plenty of prior art to get around the Saw Stop patent. Just because the inventor happened to be a patent attorney doesn't mean he had the technology completely covered. He also thought the tool companies were really just covering themselves in the event that they were required to provide the technology on their saws. He wasn't sure if their design would ever make it to market.

His R&D company gave the base design to the tool companies with the idea that they could modify/design their own versions if they so chose to.

That's the last I really heard of it as my friend left the company last summer.

I keep waiting for one of the manufacturers to unveil their braking system.

-Brian

BTW, This was all second hand knowledge through my friend, so the details may not be 100% accurate.

If this is true, it just proves what a sad state the tool industry is in. As I have stated in the past "they dont care about your saftey". It is all about producing tools as cheap as possible and selling them for as much as possible. Again if this is true Delta is the real dirty one. They could have incorperated their new saftey device, but "saftey doesn't sell" which is what has been said in the past. Sawstop has proven them wrong with the best selling saws on the market.

[Bob Wingard]

Say one fails....say the blade block fails to fire.....yup...if the blade drops...you have a backup system.....and visa versa.

.


If the cartridge fail to fire, the blade's not dropping either. It's the sudden stop that causes the blade to drop, not anything electronic. The drop of the blade is NOT a secondary, redundant action.

[Randal Stevenson]

If this is true, it just proves what a sad state the tool industry is in. As I have stated in the past "they dont care about your saftey". It is all about producing tools as cheap as possible and selling them for as much as possible. Again if this is true Delta is the real dirty one. They could have incorperated their new saftey device, but "saftey doesn't sell" which is what has been said in the past. Sawstop has proven them wrong with the best selling saws on the market.


There are also legal implications, for coming up with this AFTER Sawstop, and then incorporating it. Some of the lawsuits (why didn't you invent/incorporate it earlier) would still happen.

Litigation, the threat of litigation, responsibility (personal and company) and the not my fault (not me), symptoms all affect each other in a vicious cycle.

[Rob Lee]

Hi -

Well, I think safety sells...

We got rid of every table saw we had (15-20?) and replaced them all with Sawstop saws... it's the only reasonable choice for a business, other than buying a panel saw...

Why? It takes the operator right out of the equation.

From a liabilty standpoint - there is a "duty to use" argument which is somewhat compelling, even if you don't agree with the cost....

Cheers -

Rob

[Cody Colston]

There is not a doubt in my mind that eventually, the TS mfg's will be forced to incorporate a Sawstop-type device on their saws. The mentality in this country is that someone else has to be responsible for our personal safety, no matter if we are careless, incompetent or simply stupid. It's always someone else's fault and we have the court judgements to prove it!

That post about the saw mfg's already having developed an alternative to the Sawstop technology strikes me as probably true. They can also see where all this is leading.

What I'm expecting to see before then, however, is what happens the first time a Sawstop fails and someone cuts off a digit. Of course, it will be the fault of Sawstop because the technology will have failed. No matter that nothing is foolproof, especially in a dusty shop being operated by a banker, doctor, exec, amateur woodworker wanting to relieve some stress on the weekend but relieves himself of a finger, instead.

If a plaintiff can get awarded $1.5 million because the mfg did not include the Sawstop device on their saw, what will they get when they spend top dollar on a TS, thinking they are buying Sawstop protection but then lose a finger anyway?

The device WILL fail somewhere, sometime. That's not a knock on Sawstop but simply the nature of the beast. The more saws Sawstop sells, the greater the odds that there will be a failure. It's all about numbers.

[larry cronkite]

The timing of this post couldn't be better. This morning coming down the stairs to my shop I twisted my ankle and ended up on my butt (Great start for April 1st).
A while later while nursing my sore ankle I started to cut up some curly maple for pen blanks when suddenly WHAM!!! Evidently while shifting my weight to ease my ankle I inadvertenly touched the saw blade and triggered the safety mechanism. Of course the brake was ruined (which SawStop says they will replace when I send in the triggered one) and damaged the blade that I have been told can be resharpened as good as new.
The only injury that I sustained was a slight groove (that didn't even bleed) on the end of my left forefinger and a nick on my fingernail that can be repaired with a nail file.
I want to thank SawStop for making this technology available, (and my wife who after seeing the SS video in November 2009 said, "That's your Christmas present").

[Dan Friedrichs]

The device WILL fail somewhere, sometime. That's not a knock on Sawstop but simply the nature of the beast. The more saws Sawstop sells, the greater the odds that there will be a failure. It's all about numbers.

Perhaps. But even if it only works 99.999% of the time, that's good enough for me :) It's still a marked improvement over the status quo.

[Greg Portland]

I would be more concerned about stopping the blade versus dropping it. If it drops while still spinning... I think depending on where your finger is over the blade, it could still cut you more, or try to drag your finger...by the bone maybe...down into the saw. I dont know if what I am saying makes sense ...but I guess it does... stopping the blade stops the cut. even if the cut is in your finger...Go watch the super-slo motion video from the show Timewarp (available on Sawstop's website and Youtube IIRC). Your concerns are unfounded if you watch the video.

[Josiah Bartlett]

Larry, I'm glad you are ok (at least your finger, I hope your ankle gets better too). That really emphasizes how alertness and concentration really plays into shop safety.

[Tim Malyszko]

Wow Larry. I am so glad to see you are okay.

This is exactly why I want a Sawstop. I consider myself a very safe woodworker, but there are some events that I just cannot control. For instance, one of my biggest fears is ripping a piece of wood and suddenly coughing or sneezing unexpectantly, causing my hand to move right into the blade.

[Mike Henderson]

Hi -

Well, I think safety sells...

We got rid of every table saw we had (15-20?) and replaced them all with Sawstop saws... it's the only reasonable choice for a business, other than buying a panel saw...

Why? It takes the operator right out of the equation.

From a liabilty standpoint - there is a "duty to use" argument which is somewhat compelling, even if you don't agree with the cost....

Cheers -

Rob
In this same vein, the local Austin Hardwood store will cut lumber to rough size for you. They used to have a radial arm saw but a few years ago put in a saw where the wood is placed in position, a clamp/guard is in place over the cut, and the blade comes upward to make the cut (it's a fairly large blade, maybe 12-14" so it can cut wide lumber). The operator's hands are not touching the wood when the cut is made and the blade is never exposed.

It's much safer than a radial arm saw so I can see why they installed it.

The situation is similar to what Rob pointed out. If a much safer tool is available, it's tough for a company to justify using the older technology.

Mike

[I don't remember what those kind of saws are called. I've seen them advertised but just don't remember the name. They weren't all that expensive for commercial, production type equipment. Anybody know what they're called?]

[Dan Friedrichs]

Jump saws


(asdfasdfasdfa)

[Greg Pavlov]

..........
So they came up with a design that not only stopped the blade faster than the Saw Stop, it also didn't destroy the blade either. He said their recharge "kit" was going to be fairly cheap, like a $20 CO2 type of cartridge. ............
There's usually quite a bit of time and money between a prototype and robust, close-to-foolproof day-in-and-day-out production unit that will withstand years of abuse, vibration, dust, etc. So that $20 cost would translate to something quite a bit more, I suspect, by the time it made it into a vendor's saw.

[Stephen Edwards]

Folks,

I don't own a SS and will never buy one. I don't have a dog in this fight.


That being said,

I don't think the sale of a $65 block of aluminum is the reason.

I suspect that neither the brake block engagement or the retraction of the retraction of the blade will do it fast enough to produce the desire results or.................

Say one fails....say the blade block fails to fire.....yup...if the blade drops...you have a backup system.....and visa versa.

Either way.......I don't think the $65 aluminum block has anything to do with it.

I'm with Ken on this one. I don't have a SS, won't have one unless someone decides to give me a really nice gift:D and I think that selling a $65 chunk of aluminum is among the least of the manufacturer's concerns.

[mike holden]

Once upon a time, I attended a convention where they tracked the cost of a $100 dollar list price back to the initial cost. At no step on the way was anyone gouging or inflating the price - and the initial cost was about $13 dollars!
It was an eye opener.
We all want to get paid for our labor and investments, so your $20 dollar CO2 cartridge would be about $125 to be added to the list price.

Of course, try and buy a mid range saw today, the 300-500 dollar field only has jobsite saws, the basic table saws are gone.

Mike

[Glen Butler]

There's usually quite a bit of time and money between a prototype and robust, close-to-foolproof day-in-and-day-out production unit that will withstand years of abuse, vibration, dust, etc. So that $20 cost would translate to something quite a bit more, I suspect, by the time it made it into a vendor's saw.

Additionally why sell the replacement for $20 when you can get $50 and still be cheaper than sawstop.

[Art Mulder]

The timing of this post couldn't be better. ...
The only injury that I sustained was a slight groove (that didn't even bleed) on the end of my left forefinger and a nick on my fingernail that can be repaired with a nail file.

Glad you're okay Larry! (probably not as glad as you are, but I expect that... :p)

I do find your photos to be too small, though. Any chance you can post larger photos?

[Charley Foley]

1. IF you are worried enough about cutting yourself, there is only one option right now. I certainly have come close before so I understand. I am probably not going to buy a SS unless my wife finds out they exist :D

2. They came up with a simple straight forward easy to implement, easy to replace system that functions very well. It's easy to monday morning quarterback someone else' design.

3. A spinning blade and motor contain a significant amount of kinetic energy that must be dissipated in milliseconds to keep someone from getting cut. They Needed the blade/ arbor to move to help absorb the force generated that would otherwise make the table jump or break something else. Besides, doesn't hurt to get the blade out of the way. There may be a little kickback in the blade which could still do damage.

4. Who cares about an 80 dollar blade when their fingers are on the floor? Any idea what it costs for the repair? I've repaired way too many table saw/ hand injuries. Done my share of replants and amputations. While the insurance company may put a price on your fingers/ hand, I bet you can't, they're priceless.

5. Life has risk, deal with it. Personally, I am appalled by the lawsuit, but not surprised, it's the way we have developed our current society. Sad.

Off the soapbox now..

[Christopher Pine]

I am certainly no expert on how this mechanism works. Wouldn't it make some sense that the blade going under the table also be a form of energy absorbtion? When you think about all that energy being directed into the cartridge, wouldn't it stress the arbor and the motor and the mounts etc. This perhaps aleviated the whole slamming stress by using it to lower the whole works rather than just slam it into the saw. If you all get what I am saying?

Chris

[Alan Schaffter]

To achieve the short response time they wanted, they needed both the blade break and the blade drop. If you look at the arc of the blade and the path it follows- the movement of the blade is AWAY from the the leading edge (away from the hot dog). So the response time relies on both actions. A nice bit engineering without the use of explosives.

Edit: I just found an email exchange I had with Dr. Gass about my bristle, soft-sided, overblade dust shroud (which is safe for use on a SawStop by the way) he said:

"On the retraction/braking issue - the retraction is a passive byproduct of the braking torque, so unfortunately without the braking action, you don't get any retraction. Although it is in theory possible to just have retraction and get the same protection you'd get with braking, in practice the force required to move the blade away from the user fast enough is huge and it is very difficult to find anything short of an explosive actuator that could apply enough force fast enough."

I hope he doesn't mind me quoting him.

As a serious tinkerer and designer, I am convinced however, there is a way to achieve the same or faster response time, WITHOUT destroying the blade, using a combination of drop away and a brake that contacts a companion gear instead of the blade. It will still require a sacrificial brake cartridge and special trunnion.

There is no new ground-breaking technology, engineering, or electronics in the SawStop. They were just the first to put it all together in this manner and make it work. They took a chance and bet that safety might sell- as far as I can see they won the bet!

I don't own a Sawstop and unless my retirement income is significantly increased, I probably won't replace my 12 year-old Uni.

Has anyone filmed a Sawstop "hot dog test" where the dog was moved into the blade very quickly, instead of at a snails pace? What amount of damage was done?

[mreza Salav]

If you read the SawStop literature, website, etc, somewhere (maybe in an email I got from Dr. Gass?) it says to get the short response time they wanted, they needed both the blade break and the blade drop. If you look at the arc of the blade and the path it follows- the movement of the blade is AWAY from the the leading edge (away from the hot dog). So the response time relies on both actions. A nice bit engineering without the use of explosives.

As a serious tinkerer and designer, I am convinced however, there is a way to achieve the same or faster response time, WITHOUT destroying the blade, using a combination of drop away and a brake that contacts a companion gear instead of the blade. It will still require a sacrificial brake cartridge and special trunnion.

There is no new ground-breaking technology, engineering, or electronics in the SawStop. They were just the first to put it all together in this manner and make it work. They took a chance and bet that safety might sell- as far as I can see they won the bet!

I don't own a Sawstop and unless my retirement income is significantly increased, I probably won't replace my 12 year-old Uni.

Has anyone filmed a Sawstop "hot dog test" where the dog was moved into the blade very quickly, instead of at a snails pace? What amount of damage was done?

two comments:

1- The trouble with having a sacrificial "blade" thing so the brake bites into (instead of the real blade) has the problem that the arbor nut will probably come loose and will cause the blade to rotate. Perhaps a secondary brake is needed for that but makes the whole thing more complicated and perhaps slow.

2- I remember seeing a video in which they slash a hot dog (at a very fast speed) into the running blade. The damage was a more than a nick but was nowhere close to a cut half-way the thickness or something like that.
Unfortunately, I cannot find the link.

[Christopher Pine]

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/Ezine/Public/FreePlans1.aspx

[Alan Schaffter]

two comments:

1- The trouble with having a sacrificial "blade" thing so the brake bites into (instead of the real blade) has the problem that the arbor nut will probably come loose and will cause the blade to rotate. Perhaps a secondary brake is needed for that but makes the whole thing more complicated and perhaps slow.


In reality the arbor nut would not be an issue since you would likely need to use special blades that have two or more "alignment" holes in the disc to couple it securely to the "sacrificial" blade. You don't want the real blade to continue to rotate, so both "blades" must stop at the same time. The saw manufacturer could offer drilled blades until the major blade manufacturers started selling them.

The big problem is the amount of inertia generated by the dual "blade" assembly and the force it applies to the brake- an incredible amount of instantaneous 'G' force required to stop that blade cold. Also, the sacrificial blade would need to be smaller in diameter to allow the regular blade to extend above the table. Its "teeth" would need to be hefty enough to handle the stopping force without breaking to avoid replacing it after each activation. The brake cartridge would need to absorb/dissipate increased force and the trunnion would need to be really tough. The drop-away action might need to absorb much more energy, especially if the brake cartridge was designed so it didn't need to absorb/dissipate energy, to save money. In the SawStop, crushing the aluminum brake absorbs a lot of energy.

Any increased cost to the consumer would be easily offset when you no longer need to replace a $100 blade each time you have an activation and possibly using a less expensive brake cartridge. Only testing (or some serious computer modeling) will tell if this approach is possible.

I suspect SawStop is already working on SS v2.0

[mreza Salav]

My comment about arbor nut was with the assumption of using regular blades. But your points are good and make sense too.
One other thing is that the blade is not necessarily junk after brake activation. Once I had my Freud Fusion blade in an activation. Got it fixed by replacing 3-4 teeth and sharpened all, for a total cost of $34. So typically the blade is salvageable.

[Paul Ryan]

I personally don't care that a cartridge and blade get wrecked in the whole ordeal. It isn't like this is an occurrence that happens every day. I don't plan on it ever happening. If it happens once every other year, oh well. Ya it would be nice if there wasn't consumables involved but again it isn't something that should happen very often.

[Alan Schaffter]

I personally don't care that a cartridge and blade get wrecked in the whole ordeal. It isn't like this is an occurrence that happens every day. I don't plan on it ever happening. If it happens 1 ever other year, oh well. Ya it would be nice if there wasn't consumables involved but again it isn't something that should happen very often.

I agree, and suspect those who are inclined to buy a SawStop agree also. But, if given the choice between a "sawstop" that only required a replacement $20 dollar part after each activation vs one that needs an $80(?) part and likely a new blade ($120 Forrest? - ouch!), I'm sure most would select the first option.

[Art Mulder]

Has anyone filmed a Sawstop "hot dog test" where the dog was moved into the blade very quickly, instead of at a snails pace? What amount of damage was done?

Alan,

Yes. I think it was wood magazine a few years ago that posted a video. Instead of just pushing the hotdog through the blade, as if crosscuting a board, the guy held the hotdog in his hand an whacked it down (vertically) on the spinning blade. The cut was less than 1/8" deep.

(Sorry, I can't find it to provide a link...)

[Ken Tucker]

I cant help it I have to say it . " we want to loose our digits as cheaply as possible :)

[Dan Hintz]

3.5 year old thread...

Just a warning before people start thrashing again.

[Ken Tucker]

I think if a saw company has been sued because they didn't have such a device and had to pay out .should eliminate a patent or an improvement on one . and i think that has happened.
There are also legal implications, for coming up with this AFTER Sawstop, and then incorporating it. Some of the lawsuits (why didn't you invent/incorporate it earlier) would still happen.

Litigation, the threat of litigation, responsibility (personal and company) and the not my fault (not me), symptoms all affect each other in a vicious cycle.

[Roger Feeley]

I was told by SS tech support that the brake stops the blade within about 3 milliseconds. It takes 15 milliseconds to drop the blade.

I was also told that the chip counts 'finger touches'. That is the number of teeth that make contact with your flesh. The guy said that generally, that number is 2.