Joe Woodworker Vacuum press build ?

[Andy Maldoror]

it's getting close to the time when i'm going to need to build a vacuum press.
not quite there, but i'm starting to look around for parts.
i see quite a few of the 10 gallon air tanks at the auction. should i pick up one of these for it? is there any advantage or disadvantage to using a single large tank instead of the more common builds which use 2 pvc cylinders?

andy

[john bateman]

it's getting close to the time when i'm going to need to build a vacuum press.
not quite there, but i'm starting to look around for parts.
i see quite a few of the 10 gallon air tanks at the auction. should i pick up one of these for it? is there any advantage or disadvantage to using a single large tank instead of the more common builds which use 2 pvc cylinders?

andy

The PVC cylinders make for a more compact, portable unit.
But that 10gal tank should hold a lot more vacuum and draw down the bag quicker.

[Bill Wyko]

My BIL Eric Gustafson just built one for himself using the stuff from Joe Woodworker. He can give you guidance in this endeavour. He's also a member here. You might PM him. Tell him I said to post it and for that matter, his outfeed table too.:D

[Phil Maddox]

Send an email to Joe - he's one of the best guys I've dealt with, he'll give you the skinny on using the larger tank. I think there is a reason for the smaller tanks in this application but I can't remember what it is - I could just be getting old.

Good luck.

Phil

[Eric Gustafson]

My BIL Eric Gustafson just built one for himself using the stuff from Joe Woodworker. He can give you guidance in this endeavour. He's also a member here. You might PM him. Tell him I said to post it and for that matter, his outfeed table too.:D

UH huh! :D

[Paul Johnstone]

it's getting close to the time when i'm going to need to build a vacuum press.
not quite there, but i'm starting to look around for parts.
i see quite a few of the 10 gallon air tanks at the auction. should i pick up one of these for it? is there any advantage or disadvantage to using a single large tank instead of the more common builds which use 2 pvc cylinders?

andy

I attempted this project, and got leaks that I could not find. Tried the trick of wiping silicone around the joints to seal it up (under vacuum). Still have a leak.
If you do decide to use PVC, use silicone from the beginning.
I lost interest in this project for now, but when I redo it, I'm going to use some kind of air tank (one less thing to leak).

IIRC, there's pictures on his website of guys that used small air tanks designed for air compressors. That's what I plan to try.

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

If you use a larger tank, it'll take longer to pull the vacuum, unless you can switch the tank in and out of the system. The main purpose of the tank is to prevent the pump from cycling as often. I built the venturi system about 10 years ago with a $0 harbor freight pump, and with a single PVC tank, it only cycles about every 15 minutes, and only for about 10-15 seconds.

[Bill Wyko]

UH huh! :D


Come on Eric. Time to post these fantastic jobs you keep hiding from the world. Others need your input.:D

[Peter Quinn]

If you look at large serious commercial units in the multi thousand dollar range, they all seem to use 26-32 gallon tanks. These I think are meant to provide continuous vacuum to multiple presses, CNC hold down tables, etc. I have an extra 26gal tank but understood that it would take longer to fill, and would pull down a 4X8 bag too fast, not leaving much time for adjustment? I guess there is some need to balance the size of your work, the size of your bag, the CFM's of our vacuum pump and the volume of our storage tank as a system. Huge tank, small pump might not be a great formula. Huge tank, small bag might also be a problem?

I built my Joe Woodworker press, venturi model, using a 5gal air storage tank, it cycles off from empty in less than 30 seconds and no leaks. I really didn't want to get involved in gluing and threading PVC. It is a bit heavier, but I have over come that issue by not taking it jogging with me. I leave it in the shop and its easily manageable. I have yet to use it but it works well in dry testing.

[Eric Gustafson]

IIRC, there's pictures on his website of guys that used small air tanks designed for air compressors. That's what I plan to try.


Here is the tank I used. I did not have any problems with leaks and used teflon tape for sealant. I will post pics of my completed unit later. I calcuated this tank's volume to be ~ 20% more than the 2 - 15" pvc tanks reccomended on joe woodworkers' website. The tank's primary purpose is provide a resevoir to compensate for leaks so that the run time of the vacuum pump is reduced. This tank lets the pump reach shut off @ 24 inches of mercury in about one minute, when cycling. The leaks I had when actually bagging something down meant the pump kicks on every 10-15 minutes. So I end up with a duty cycle of 1/15. I read somewhere that these pumps will need a rebuild after 2yrs continuous duty. Adding the resevoir should make my unit last the rest of my life.



AIR LIFT 10980 Air Tank - 2 Gallon

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/313r-RCnEmL._SL500_AA300_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B001F15SNW/sr=8-12/qid=1270072202/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=15684181&s=automotive&qid=1270072202&sr=8-12)

[Glen Johnson]

I built the two tank unit. I ended up bypassing all the tanks, etc. I don't use the vacuum that often. When I do now, I run the vacuum pump directly to bag. This means the pump runs continuously, but I doubt my infrequent use will ever wear out the pump. It doesn't make much noise.

[Eric Gustafson]

I built the two tank unit. I ended up bypassing all the tanks, etc. I don't use the vacuum that often. When I do now, I run the vacuum pump directly to bag. This means the pump runs continuously, but I doubt my infrequent use will ever wear out the pump. It doesn't make much noise.

My BIL Bill, does a lot of veneering and when he veneers, he will often leave the pump on all night. His pump is wearing out, as it does not reach the vacuum it used to. I put the switch that allows continuous running if needed. I am sure the wear depends on how much you use it, but why would you bypass the tanks? Just wondering.

[Aaron Montgomery]

I built mine years ago using the JWW plans, and I'm embarrassed to admit that I haven't used it yet due to a reduction in shop activity. It was a neat little project though.

[Dino Drosas]

I built mine using the parts and directions from JWW. It is very compact and has only been used on about five projects. My tanks are a little larger than recommended and there are no leaks and it operates flawlessly.

[Eric Gustafson]

Another Joe woodworker vacuum.
146910

I almost forgot to add the docking station. I store it right by the workbench and this shelf tray keeps it off the floor.

146916

[Joe Gorleski]

I attempted this project, and got leaks that I could not find. Tried the trick of wiping silicone around the joints to seal it up (under vacuum). Still have a leak.
If you do decide to use PVC, use silicone from the beginning.
I lost interest in this project for now, but when I redo it, I'm going to use some kind of air tank (one less thing to leak).

IIRC, there's pictures on his website of guys that used small air tanks designed for air compressors. That's what I plan to try.

The silicone trick works quite well when the leak is caused by a poor connection between the caps and the pvc pipe. If the trick doesnt solve the leak, then the pvc reservoirs are most likely not the source of your leak. I definitely do not recommend using silicone as the primary bond method between the caps and the pipe though. Use pvc cement for this.

[Joe Gorleski]

I built the two tank unit. I ended up bypassing all the tanks, etc. I don't use the vacuum that often. When I do now, I run the vacuum pump directly to bag. This means the pump runs continuously, but I doubt my infrequent use will ever wear out the pump. It doesn't make much noise.

For occasional use, most pumps are fine to run continuously. Eric is right that many manufacturers claim that their continuous duty pumps will run for two straight years before breaking down and needing a rebuild.

[Joe Gorleski]

My BIL Bill, does a lot of veneering and when he veneers, he will often leave the pump on all night. His pump is wearing out, as it does not reach the vacuum it used to. I put the switch that allows continuous running if needed. I am sure the wear depends on how much you use it, but why would you bypass the tanks? Just wondering.

Just a word of caution... most veneer glues should not be pressed for more than an hour or so in a vacuum bag. Most liquid cold press glues cure outside of the vacuum bag. If you use this type of glue, follow the instructions for the clamping/pressing time and dont exceed the recommendations. I've seen a lot of failed panels that were left in the press too long.

[Eric Gustafson]

Just a word of caution... most veneer glues should not be pressed for more than an hour or so in a vacuum bag. Most liquid cold press glues cure outside of the vacuum bag. If you use this type of glue, follow the instructions for the clamping/pressing time and dont exceed the recommendations. I've seen a lot of failed panels that were left in the press too long.

Perhaps, I mispoke. Maybe it was when he was doing the laminations the press was on all night. :o Come on, Bill, you drug me into this - how did you wear out that pump? :confused: Second hand informaion here. The point I wanted to make was that the reservoir tank extends the life of the vacuum pump.

[Bill Wyko]

Well, when I do veneers I usually leave them in for an hour or so. When doing bent laminations, I use plastic resin glue. In this process the vacuum must stay on for at least 12 to 20 hours. If you remove a bent lamination before its time, it will be a straight lamination.:D

[Frank Drew]

If you remove a bent lamination before its time, it will be a straight lamination.:D

Funny, and true. For bent laminations I generally used a two part form and manual clamping, and, if was wintertime, wrapped the whole assembly in an electric blanket.

I'm sure these vacuum pressing tank systems work well, but they strike me a bit as over kill; as noted by several posters, most flat pressings don't need all that much time in the press, so just running off the vacuum pump itself is the simplest method, IMO. My bags were pretty leak-free, so I could just occasionally bump the pressure up a few times over the hour or two the work was in the press and call it done. If I'd bothered installing a valve in the vacuum line I might have been able to get away with a single run up of vacuum (vacuum pumps themselves aren't designed to hold a vacuum for extended periods.)

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

I use a $10 venturi pump, and can't run it continuously without blowing up my air compressor.:)

[Steve knight]

I am getting my setup wed. I will be using it a fair amount. I had to borrow a setup to glue up big mdf rounds. I put a few hundred pounds on top but it did not even squeeze the glue out.
one thing I want to try is ultra light mdf for the batons as it will let air flow through it. should work without grooves.

[Steve knight]

I am getting my setup wed. I will be using it a fair amount. I had to borrow a setup to glue up big mdf rounds. I put a few hundred pounds on top but it did not even squeeze the glue out.
one thing I want to try is ultra light mdf for the batons as it will let air flow through it. should work without grooves.

[Eric Gustafson]

I'm sure these vacuum pressing tank systems work well, but they strike me a bit as over kill

Any vacuum works so much better than clamps and weights for so many applications.

Once I decided I wanted a vacuum pump and priced the various systems that are available, I realized I could build a system with more capability than any system I would buy off the shelf. Plus, I have this basic philosophy about anything I build: Do it once, do it well, and build it to last. It might take a little longer up front, but in the end I have something I can take pride it in and I will never have to do it again. :D

[Richard Dragin]

Here's a thread I did a little while back on my press...

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=132644

[Chris Padilla]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=102812&d=1228426773

Here is mine...on a cheap dolly.

[Eric Gustafson]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=102812&d=1228426773

Here is mine...on a cheap dolly.

Chris,

Is that an air hose with a quick disconnect? I thought those didn't work, but it looks like it is working after all.