senior project paper

[curtis rosche]

after much research and work my thesis is : "Industrial Arts are of great inportance in schools and should be kept around."
does anyone know any really good links to articles or books or websites on this topic?

[Mitchell Andrus]

after much research and work my thesis is : "Industrial Arts are of great inportance in schools and should be kept around."
does anyone know any really good links to articles or books or websites on this topic?

I also think that The Teaching of Industrial Arts in Schools is Vital to America's Economic Growth and Stability

and think they should be continued.

I assume you're in high school. Perhaps when you finish your thesis you could post it here. It might be an interesting read.


Google - school budget cuts industrial arts - and sim.

http://www.thevillagenews.com/story/45886/
http://www.denverpost.com/news/frontpage/ci_14267200
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=430582

A great title helps produce a better grade.... and use caps.
.

[John Shuk]

I might rethink using the open internet and get a more accurate and focused batch of information by using library resources instead.
A friend wrote this article and it touches on why.
http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/22/moran-librarian-skills-intelligent-investing-google_2.html

[curtis rosche]

thanks for the links
i am using the library, but i am only allowed to use one internet source and i figured that i could go through links that people suggested till i found the best one to use.

thanks for the idea on the thesis.
the paper isnt very long, i think it will be about 6 pages, but i will post it here if it is wanted when i am done

[Jim Rimmer]

I would be interested in reading it. Good luck.

[Horton Brasses]

A little derail: Read that article about the librarians and really enjoyed it. The key to being successful now and in the future will be knowing how to ask the right questions. When most folks went to school we were taught direct knowledge-state capitals, tables, spelling, etc. Success now, and even more in the future, will be predicated on an individuals ability not to know how to do something or the answer, but how to phrase a question in such a way that you can actually get the answer (and not get bogged down with irrelevant information-kinda like the Bing ads). I think it's a shame the school is only allowing one internet resource. Where you get your data shouldn't matter as long as its accurate.

[curtis rosche]

anyone care to give their opinion on the topic?
i can use you as a quote/interveiw for the paper. whats your opinion on if technology classes and industrial arts classes should be kept in school. and why they are important to take and be kept in schools.
thanks

[Charlie Reals]

Curtis,
I am 100% in favor of keeping industrial arts and career oriented classes in the public schools. I went to school in a time when The trade Unions sponsored high school classes. If you were any good at all you would be offered a job upon graduation. I could have went to work in a custom cabinet shop as a third year apprentice. Work one year and make journeyman. I chose the service instead but I had the knowledge to work in a trade and although I didn't make a living at it I had the knowledge needed to build a house and it has came in handy over the years.. Not all kids are college material nor do they care to continue their education. I have seen a few kids turned around simply by being offered something to make a living at that they like.
Just my 2c's
Charlie

[Prashun Patel]

My town just went thru major budget cuts. I'm all for IA in schools, but if it's between that and math and reading, I'll take the latter.

[Horton Brasses]

To be in topic: Not all kids are college bound. Teaching real world skills is extremely important. IA programs are the only remaining options for real skills without a college degree. Not only that, the skills taught generally can't be sent overseas. We put our money where our mouth is and provide free hardware for several woodworking programs around the country (7 in all told).

[Carlos Alden]

A little derail: Read that article about the librarians and really enjoyed it. The key to being successful now and in the future will be knowing how to ask the right questions. When most folks went to school we were taught direct knowledge-state capitals, tables, spelling, etc. Success now, and even more in the future, will be predicated on an individuals ability not to know how to do something or the answer, but how to phrase a question in such a way that you can actually get the answer (and not get bogged down with irrelevant information-kinda like the Bing ads). I think it's a shame the school is only allowing one internet resource. Where you get your data shouldn't matter as long as its accurate.

Right, right, right.

I attended a good friend's graduation ceremony at Princeton in 1978. The valedictorian said (paraphrased): "When you recall your years here you will have forgotten the tests, the nights of studying, the exact answers for exams you prepared for, and most of the facts and figures you committed to memory. What a good education does is teach you HOW to learn. You learned HOW to prepare a research paper. You learned HOW to think about world economics. You learned HOW to use logical arguments. THIS is what the worth of an education is; preparing you to encounter life and any challenge you may come up against, NOT armed with specific things you learned."

Carlos

[Stephen Tashiro]

after much research and work my thesis is : "Industrial Arts are of great inportance in schools and should be kept around."
does anyone know any really good links to articles or books or websites on this topic?

Your thesis doesn't address who they are kept around for. Kept around as required courses? - as electives? In the old days, high schools put some students on the "vocational tract", figuring that they would not attend college. That was the group that took "shop".

If some courses are offered, there will be others that are not offered. So are you saying that the status quo should be maintained as far as industrial arts goes? If Industrial Arts courses are expanded, what other types courses will be eliminated?

Your thesis is not specific enough to be supported or denied by any factual information. If you address the above issues in the specific situation at your own school, you might find relevant information. However, if you only discuss a grand generality, then you must look for "sources" than deal in such grand generalities - something along the lines of opinion columns by some "Old Time Down To Earth Home Spun Philosopher".

[Jim Rimmer]

You may want to check out "Shop Class as Soulcraft" by Matthew Crawford. He waxes philosophic at times and gets a little tedious but overall he makes some good points.

[Dave Johnson29]

Curtis,

If you read my sig you will see I have a strong machining, Engineering background. I started out in the Apprenticeship system and for many of the recently passed years, I have decried the losing of tradesmen training programs.

BUT take a look at what is currently possible with no hands touching a piece of metal or a metalworking machines. Just fingers on a keyboard.

www. engineeringmotion.com/videos/483/rapid-prototyping-3d-printers
Remove the space after the www.

The up side is that as a hobbyist, I got some killer deals on barely used equipment being sold off from Colleges. :) I think hands on making stuff is soon to be a thing of the past. Maybe not in 3 years but certainly 10 is very believable. Currently 85+% of a mainstream motor vehicle assembly is done by Robots.

[Darren Null]

"Industrial Arts are of great importance in schools and should be kept around."

Saved you a point there....

[curtis rosche]

Your thesis doesn't address who they are kept around for. Kept around as required courses? - as electives? In the old days, high schools put some students on the "vocational tract", figuring that they would not attend college. That was the group that took "shop".

If some courses are offered, there will be others that are not offered. So are you saying that the status quo should be maintained as far as industrial arts goes? If Industrial Arts courses are expanded, what other types courses will be eliminated?

Your thesis is not specific enough to be supported or denied by any factual information. If you address the above issues in the specific situation at your own school, you might find relevant information. However, if you only discuss a grand generality, then you must look for "sources" than deal in such grand generalities - something along the lines of opinion columns by some "Old Time Down To Earth Home Spun Philosopher".


i left it broad because it makes it easier to write the number of required pages. and our english teacher said that i would be fine for high school. plus we have a very limited amount of time

[curtis rosche]

i need another page or two in length and i cant think of any more points to put in the paper. can anyone suggest some reasons why this type of education is importnant, to students, school, buisnesses, or anything else? thank you in advance

[Horton Brasses]

Importance to students: Hands on real world knowledge is priceless. Even for those on a college track having some real how to information is invaluable. That information gets applied across countless other disciplines.

Valuable for businesses and communities: I believe, but could be wrong, that there are real shortages of tradespeople throughout the country. When was the last time you saw a plumber under the age of 50? Businesses need skilled and semi-skilled workers. Even if the skills aren't the exact right disciplines, someone with trade training usually has a background that lends itself to many different industries.

[Chris Kennedy]

i need another page or two in length and i cant think of any more points to put in the paper. can anyone suggest some reasons why this type of education is importnant, to students, school, buisnesses, or anything else? thank you in advance

This has to stop. When this thread started up, I thought it was reasonable and part of gathering information, but as it has progressed, it has crossed a line. Asking professionals for their viewpoints as a part of the research is valid. When you are a couple of pages short of page count and asking for additional reasons to justify your thesis, it is getting other people to do your work for you. I don't think you have crossed a line knowingly, but you have done so.

Curtis -- I am telling you this as a professor. This site is part of the public domain. The quoted post of yours comes to light, you are going to have a lot of trouble.

Just to re-iterate -- I don't think you have done this knowingly, but you have done so. If you want additional evidence to flesh out your existing evidence, ask those specific questions.


Chris

[Mitchell Andrus]

+1.

Do some basic research. In your first post you say 'after much research and work'.... ?

Visit 3 or 4 service related shops in your area. An electrician, plumber, hair salon, baker, mgr. at Home Depot, auto body shop owner, muffler shop... and ask why they think your premise is valid.

Turn off the 'puter and go out into the world and find the answers you seek.

...and please.... We either support (fund) them or we withdraw support and stop funding them. We don't just keep them 'around'. I hope you'll change the title to reflect what you've discovered while researching this important topic - and offer a nod to your English teacher while penning your thoughts. Proper use of this important tool (English) is more important than the IA courses you're researching.
.

[Carlos Alden]

i need another page or two in length and i cant think of any more points to put in the paper. can anyone suggest some reasons why this type of education is importnant, to students, school, buisnesses, or anything else? thank you in advance

Curtis:

Another idea, kind of in line with what you are hearing from others. Instead of relying on us to tell you why these programs are important, let me be devil's advocate. Try arguing against these ideas:

1. There is no need for industrial arts in schools because a student can get specialized training in the trades in community college programs.

2. With massive cutbacks everywhere it is important to focus on academics instead of trade courses.

3. It is a higher priority to keep courses of study that promote academics instead of arts and crafts.

4. Trade courses are simply not required in modern society where so much is done by automation.

5. In order to compete internationally with nations like India, China, and Japan, we must focus on raising test scores in math and science for ALL students, and we cannot put energy or time or money into mere trade courses.

Okay, tell me where I'm wrong and why. THAT is what needs to go in your paper.

Carlos

[curtis rosche]

sorry Chris i didnt even think about that. i did spend lots of time in the library searching libraries across my states and some internet sources, but i wasnt using the right search terms. i wasnt finding anything.
thank you Carlos, your questions were perfect, they sparked the right search terms that led me a ton of information that i had been trying to find. that was a huge help.