3hp Tablesaw verses 5hp Tablesaw

[Paul Greathouse]

I don't recall seeing much discussion on this topic and I cannot turn up anything with a search. What I would like to know is, for those of you that have used both 3hp and 5hp 10" tablesaws, how much of an advantage is the 5hp saw? What specifically were you able to do on a 5hp saw that you could not do on a 3hp saw?

There are not any good showrooms close to me so I have been limited to internet shopping and it appears that a 5hp saw can be had for not much more than a 3hp saw. Is there any reason not to go with a 5hp saw? It doesn't seem like power consumption would be that much of a factor.

I started out with a Delta contractor saw many years ago but have been using a tracksaw in the place of a tablesaw for several years now. After using the tracksaw, I find that there are things I miss about the tablesaw so I am presently in the seriously looking stage.

The new, but so far, unavailable Grizzly 1023R's, have my attention due to the fact that they have the riving knife, new dust shroud and available 5hp motor.

If there's a reason why I don't want/need a 5hp I might look more seriously at the 690's and their Leeson motors.

As for what the saw will be used for. My shop is geared mostly toward part-time cabinetmaking right now but I want to get into furniture and individual pieces.

Although I have mentioned Grizzly, lets not turn this into a this brand verses that brand thread. Please look at simply from a power comparison standpoint.

[Jamie Buxton]

5 HP is not necessary for a small shop. The only thing horsepower brings you is higher feed rate. Unless you're doing production ripping with a power feeder, you can't exceed a 3 HP on a 10" saw.

Well, okay, if you use a dull blade (bad idea) and rip reaction wood without a splitter (a really really bad idea), you might be able to bog a 3 HP saw. Of course, if you do those bad things, you also might get a 3 HP kickback, which is not good at all.

[Cody Colston]

I can't see a need for a 5 hp saw in a one-man shop unless you just like power. The 3 hp will do everything you need done and do it a bit more economically.

If you made do with a track saw, a 3 hp cabinet saw will be a dream machine.

[Van Huskey]

Ripping something like 12/4 Ipe you might see a difference, but in 99.9% of situations you will not unless you are tring to drag race with the feedrate. I would rather have a Leeson 3hp than a no name 5hp on a cabinet saw. Just like I bought and prefer my 3hp Baldor over a no name Asian 5hp motor. If we were just comparing 1023 to 1023 I might just consider spending the extra $120 on the 5hp but in the end would probably spend it on a upgraded miter gauge, refacing the fence or a Forrest or Freud Fusion blade.

Since you are considering Grizzly then it seems value is important to you in this senario I would get a lot more value from that $120 in other ways on the TS. I also think the ~1,300 range in Grzzly saws is a hard place to chop the new 1023 and 690/691 each have some strong points but none of their 10" saws have all of them. It seems to me the 1023 should have been kept as the basic 10" cabinet and the 690/1 should have been moved upmarket by say $300 and included all the good points of each.

[Frank Drew]

I've used both and prefer 5 hp; for custom furniture work there will probably be times when you'll want to rip even 16/4 material (larger bed posts, table pedestals, etc.) and the extra power is a plus. I've never heard anyone say they wished their saw had a bit less power.

But I woudn't turn down a 3 hp saw if the deal was good and I liked the machine.

[Mike Archambeau]

3 hp is a lot of power for a table saw. As the wood gets thicker you might be tempted to up the power to 5 hp. But for those really thick boards, would you not be safer moving those cuts to a band saw? Making a 12/4 cut on a band saw is a small cut, but on the table saw you are maxing out. Consider that the resaw of an 8 inch board is an everyday occurrence, and that is 32/4 material!

[Tom Veatch]

In my opinion, worth exactly what you paid for it, in a non-production environment, the price difference between 3 and 5 HP brings more value if it's put into premium quality saw blades. And that price differential is magnified if you have to run a 30amp circuit for the 5HP saw.

3HP will get along just fine on a 20amp 240 feed. But if you expect to use the additional 2HP, the 20amp circuit won't cut it.

[Mac Cambra]

I had a 3HP unisaw and upgraded to a 5HP Sawstop, frankly I haven't noticed a difference. In fact I think all 3HP and all 5HP motors may not be created equal, in some case it seems like the 3HP on my Delta may have been more powerful than the 5HP on my Sawstop. I haven't really studied the issue but it seems that I have stalled the blade on the Sawstop where that wouldn't have been a problem on the Delta. Then again the belt may be slipping on the Sawstop.

Disregard my rambling, bottom line for the hobbyist the 3HP is great no real trade-off in my opinion.

[Joe Jensen]

I owned a 3HP PM66 for about 18 years and I only wished for me HP for one project where I did max depth rip cuts back in the day when I only had a combination blade. Had to go slow enough to have the power, but that slow caused some buring. Way back then I wasn't smart enough to own a rip blade for that kind of cut.

When I bought a SawStop I ended up getting a 5HP, mostly because I was spending $4000, and for $200 more I wouldn't have to ever wish I had the 5HP.

I've since sold the Sawstop and I now have a 12" felder with a 5.5HP motor.

[Steve Peterson]

I bought a used 5HP PM66 and do not actually see why I would ever need all 5HP.

I see the following reasons that 3HP would be better in my situation:

1) I have a 50A subpanel that runs a Clearvue cyclone and the PM66, plus lights and a few misc small loads. I had to move the window mounted 110V air conditioner to a separate circuit to avoid overload. A 3HP motor would be less likely to trip the main breaker.

2) The PM66 appears to be designed for the weight and size of a 3HP motor. It takes a lot of effort to lift the blade (and 5HP motor).

3) The 5HP motor hits the top of the dust cover when the blade is all the way up. I keep meaning to modify the dust cover to fix the problem.

Of course, a Leeson 3HP motor is expected to actually be a true 3HP. The unknown 3HP import motors in many saws might not be as powerful as a known brand. An import 5HP motor might not be much stronger than a Leeson 3HP motor. YMMV.

Steve

[Jeff Willard]

... there will probably be times when you'll want to rip even 16/4 material...


Not with a 10" tablesaw, he won't.:D

[John Coloccia]

LOL...I was thinking that too.

Anyhow, my contractor SS has a 1.75HP motor in it. I routinely cut through hard maple that is 3" thick. 2 1/4" thick plywood and MDF laminations too. I could probably bog down my saw if I really wanted to, but casual, smooth and steady feed gives me a great cut with no problem.

[mreza Salav]

Didn't think this would happen but I managed to stall (or almost stall) my 3HP SS with a think kerf 24t rip blade (Freud, and Sharp) on ripping hard maple.
I think that piece was exceptionally hard (and I mean really HARD). With blade elevated to full height I tried going through and it bugged down, went slower and started burning the wood and smoking! stopped the saw and went 3 passes (raising the blade 1" at a time).

Not that I wished I had a 5HP saw but this was the only time I really saw 3HP wasn't enough.

[Ramsey Ramco]

I have a 3HP PM66 and 2 Saturday's ago my wife let the dog into the shop while I was ripping down plywood for a cabinet shelf. I heard the dog bark and stand up, I lost control for a brief second, the 2' shelf kicked back hit me in my right leg, I couldn't walk for the rest of the day and still have a giant bruise (I have a darker skin complexion and NEVER bruise). Of course its a Baldor motor, but I build cabinets commercially and I can tell you 3HP motor is plenty, spend the extra money on accessories.

[Paul Greathouse]

Thanks for all the responses, I'll more than likely go with the 3hp, now to decide whether it will be a 1023 or a 690. They each have features that I like.

I like Van's idea of making the 690 the top of the line saw and selling it for a higher price. I would gladly pay more for one of their saws if it had all of the best features.

As I understand it, these are the differences. Feel free to add to the lists if you wish.

690:
Leeson motor
riving knife
heavy trunion
nice paint scheme
triple V-belt drive

1023:
riving knife
new better dust shroud
equally heavy trunion
available with built in router table in extension wing (would be great for dado's using the fence)
serpentine belt
a proven history

[Glen Butler]

I have used both and currently own a 5HP PM2000. I don't really think 5hp is necessary, and I know you have already made up your mind, but . . .

One argument I have heard for using 5HP over 3HP is that when a blade slows it vibrates. More power = less slowing. So you would in theory get a better cut in thicker harder materials with 5HP. I have had to cut 10/4 hickory glued up from 4/4 stock and you could hardly tell the difference from the side that was run on the jointer and the side that was cut on the table saw. I have not run comparable material on the 3HP Uni so I cannot conclude that 5HP is better for cut quality. You have peaked my curiosity. I am going to see if I have any more of that 10/4 around and run it on the Uni.

[Chip Lindley]

I doubt in a home shop environment you would ever see any advantage of a 5hp saw. It will consume more power and make your meter spin faster.

The wear and tear on a 5hp motor would be much less over time. It would be pushed to it's max much less often than a 3hp motor would.

But, having used a contractor-type saw, you know that 1.5hp can accomplish a lot! 3hp can do quite a bit more, much easier. A 5hp saw would just glide through most tasks that a CS struggles with. If you were going to lose sleep over being deprived of a 5hp saw, by all means....spring for it!

[Chip Lindley]

I doubt in a home shop environment you would ever see any advantage of a 5hp saw. It will consume more power and make your meter spin faster.

The wear and tear on a 5hp motor would be much less over time. It would be pushed to it's max much less often than a 3hp motor would.

But, having used a contractor-type saw, you know that 1.5hp can accomplish a lot! 3hp can do quite a bit more, much easier. A 5hp saw would just glide through most tasks that a CS struggles with. If you were going to lose sleep over being deprived of a 5hp saw, by all means....spring for it!

[Mark Major]

Hi Paul, I've owned both a 5 HP and a 3HP General 350...still have the 3HP. Having used both in a quite demanding environment for, well, about 40 yrs, my opinion is you'd most likely never notice any benefit of having that extra 2 HP under the hood. If it were, say a 14-16 inch saw I'd say absolutely it makes a difference. Good luck with your choice. Mark

[Derek Gilmer]

I would offer that the router table extension on the 1023RLW may not be a big + for you. I've got the 1023 with the router table (pre riving knife) and LOVE the saw but am quite jealous of the upgraded router table for the newer saws: http://grizzly.com/products/Router-Table-Attachment-for-G0691/T10222.

I guess if you were using it for one set purpose only and had another dedicated router table/shaper to use for more intricate stuff it could be perfect. I've only got 2 routers (blasphemy I know) a "3 hp" freud and an old B&D plunge. So I keep the freud in my router table, the B&D for hand work and don't really use the grizzly table now.

[scott spencer]

I don't really fit your requested demographic to answer since I've never used a 5 hp saw, but I've never even for an instant wished for more power than 3hp.

Good alignment and blade selection can make a big difference.

[Mike Henderson]

I have a 3HP at home and have used the 5HP saws at school. Never noticed a difference.

Mike

[Karl Brogger]

I've never heard anyone say they wished their saw had a bit less power.

Bingo-

Just feeding 13/16" stock through by hand, even not really hard stuff like birch/cherry/etc, I regularly bog down a 5hp Powermatic. I'm also very aggressive, and don't like to spend anymore time at work then I have too.

[Frank Drew]

FWIW, the Ulmia I cited earlier in this thread could swing a 12" blade and actually had a 5 kW motor (ca. 6.7 hp); before that I had a 5 hp Powermatic. The blade speed on the Ulmia was quite fast; it made a heckuva sound when running.

[Paul B. Cresti]

I have had a contractor's saw and a 3hp cabinet saw and they both have worked well. I now own a 9hp 3ph slider....big difference but I think there are some other questions to aks yourself instead of just HP's...

1) The blade size - a 12" capacity saw give you a great capacity leap especially when doing big glue ups or maybe even making cove moldings. I believe most 12" machines are 5hp??
2) Work surface - a 10" saw (3hp) has a smaller worksurface than a 12" saw (5hp). If you are cutting sheetgoods (as you say you do) the extra table surface before the blade and the overall work surface are nice.

I know If I ever went back to a cabinet saw I would choose at least a saw that can handle a 12" blade and that most likely means a 5hp unit.

[John Thompson]

I've used 3 HP for many years and it is sufficient for most home use but.. I got into prepping air dried stock for hire and suddenly the need arrived as what I get in those cases is ash.. hickory and oak. And everything from 5/4 to 12/4.

I sold the 3 HP and upgraded to 5 HP for two reasons. First you can feed faster and second you can rip 12/4 stock on a 10" TS contrarary to what was stated earlier. You have to have one that a 12" blade will clear on and use a 5/8'" to 1" adapter to get it in one pass. You can rip 12/4 on a 10" saw with a 10" blade in two passes also. You rip slightly over 1/2 the thickness on one pass.. turn it over and rip the other 1/2. One pass on the jointer will take out any ridge line that may occur. Just adds a two steps to get to the finish line!.. :)

[John Coloccia]

Actually, they were talking about ripping 16/4. :eek: My SS contractor rips 12/4 without much difficulty, but there is definately a sweet spot for feed rate to keep it from bogging down or burning. If I were doing it everyday, I would definately want 3HP. In fact, I definately wish I had just bought the cabinet saw and been done with it, but mine does what I need it to do at the moment. Oh well.

:D

[John Thompson]

Actually, they were talking about ripping 16/4. :eek: My SS contractor rips 12/4 without much difficulty, but there is definately a sweet spot for feed rate to keep it from bogging down or burning. If I were doing it everyday, I would definately want 3HP. In fact, I definately wish I had just bought the cabinet saw and been done with it, but mine does what I need it to do at the moment. Oh well.

:D

My bad John as I was hurried to make an appointment early this morning. I should have said you can do 16/4 (4") on a 10" saw in lieu of 12/4. The 12" blade on my saw can handle slightly over 4" and a double pass with a 10" blade as I mentioned will handle it easily by flipping. I will say don't try it on any saw with a standard 40T or higher blade. I use 20T rips for that thickness and 24 T rips for 6/4 and under.

[Van Huskey]

My bad John as I was hurried to make an appointment early this morning. I should have said you can do 16/4 (4") on a 10" saw in lieu of 12/4. The 12" blade on my saw can handle slightly over 4" and a double pass with a 10" blade as I mentioned will handle it easily by flipping. I will say don't try it on any saw with a standard 40T or higher blade. I use 20T rips for that thickness and 24 T rips for 6/4 and under.

The 20T Forrest is great for very thick rips the huge gullets make a difference.

[Johnnyy Johnson]

Reply to Joe Jenson..I understand your point about the HP. I hate it when places like Tractor Supply sell motors based on inrush current to declare what the HP is. It is a ripoff to the people who want to buy a 56 Frame motor to tune up a saw and to find out it is no more power than what they had to begin with. Buyer beware on motors!!

[Chris Padilla]

Didn't think this would happen but I managed to stall (or almost stall) my 3HP SS with a think kerf 24t rip blade (Freud, and Sharp) on ripping hard maple.
I think that piece was exceptionally hard (and I mean really HARD). With blade elevated to full height I tried going through and it bugged down, went slower and started burning the wood and smoking! stopped the saw and went 3 passes (raising the blade 1" at a time).

Not that I wished I had a 5HP saw but this was the only time I really saw 3HP wasn't enough.

Mreza, I question the use of a thin-kerf blade on a 10" cabinet saw. IMO, thin-kerf blades are only meant for underpowered saws. The thinner body of the blade could warp a bit with a heavy cut with a powerful saw. Try the same cut with a full-kerf. I've noticed a difference in the past and promptly got rid of all my thin-kerf blades....