Digital depth scale for drill press

[Barry Wixey]

OK folks. I need some help. Many people have asked about Wixey making a digital depth scale for drill presses and I think I have probably told everyone that we are going to make one someday. Well, we have just come up with a very slick simple idea but I am not sure it will be accurate enough. The device would be very repeatable but the absolute accuracy may only be 1/32". Maybe 1/64" but lets say 1/32" to be safe.

My question is this: is this good enough and if not, what applications would you be doing where you would need to drill a hole and control the depth closer than 1/32" ?

As always, thanks for your help!

[Joe Chritz]

Considering that every time you change bits the scale resets I don't know how you could get anymore accurate without a lot of fuss anyway.

I would hazard a guess that repeatability would be more useful than raw accuracy anyway but I am at a loss as to what I would use a digital readout on a drill press.

FWIW the angle gauge is one of the more useful additions I have every purchased.

If a depth gauge is easy to set and reset than I would say 1/32 is likely fine.

Joe

[Rick Cabot]

Hi Barry
IMHO, 1/32" drill press accuracy, while working in wood, would be quite adequate. Seasonal wood variations in our neck of the woods can far exceed 1/32". Hope this is helpful.
Regards
Rick Cabot

[pat warner]

Would product stop the quill too, or the user uses present hardware for that?
In wood, I agree + or - 1/64 hurts nearly nothng.

I work in wood, metal & plastic. Often chamfers are called out.
As such (plastic & metal) + or - 1/64 would be unacceptable for chamfers.
On rare occasions you might bust a tap or puncture stock that was meant for blind holes.
(Drills all day long)
************************************

[Dan Friedrichs]

Absolutely. I've often thought how nice it would be to have that feature on a drill press.

Certainly the depth stops on any drill press do not offer more than 1/32" accuracy. Likewise, measuring and putting a piece of tape on the drill bit would also be hard to get better than 1/32".

I find that when I want that feature, it is often just for a quick and rough estimate. I don't want to take time to measure and put a piece of tape on the drill bit, and I don't want to take time to set the stop. I just want an idea of how far I'm into the wood, since I can't see the end of the bit.

I'd buy it even if it was only good to 1/4"!

[Myk Rian]

I use my DP for more than just wood working. I suppose most would also.
If the planer DI could be made to read in reverse, I would mount one of those to the DP.

My vote is 1/32" isn't accurate enough.

[Barry Wixey]

Would product stop the quill too, or the user uses present hardware for that?
In wood, I agree + or - 1/64 hurts nearly nothng.

************************************
Pat;

You would just use the readout to measure the depth but if you wanted to drill numerous holes at the same depth you would use the existing depth stop on your drill press.

[Rod Sheridan]

I often use the depth stop, for example when drilling the 35mm hole for a hinge.

I tend to measure the depth with a digital caliper if required, so I don't think I would use the feature on the drill press.

Regards, Rod.

[Josh Bowman]

1/32" for wood is just fine. I'm trying to think of any problems, I have a Craftsman DP with digital depth and when I use it, I want to know where the table is, so I don't drill it or a blind hole like a mortise and depth there is not that critical to a 1/32". Even at that I use the drill stop and it will for sure stop me. Can't think of any critical operations. I think that's what you want and can design to.

[Marty Paulus]

I believe 1/32” is plenty accurate for a drill press. This is not a precision piece of equipment we are talking about. It was not designed to be repeatable in the z-axis to .03”. One look at the depth control will tell you that depth is not a major concern. This machine was designed to drill holes in material. It does this well. Anything else you ask it to do it will not do well. It is not a Bridgeport mill. A Bridgeport was designed to be accurate in all 3 axis to .001” or better depending on the operator and condition of the machine. If you are asking a drill press to be z-axis accurate to 0.015” or better, then you are asking to be disappointed.

Although there is at least one person who disagrees with me:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Accurized-Craftsman-Drill-Press/

[Brian Kincaid]

Stop collar vs Wixey.

For a digital readout I'm assuming that the result is rounded so when you say 1/32" accurate you mean 1/32 +/- 1/64. I think this is plenty accurate, but it is not that useful without integrating a 'depth-stop' like a stop collar. I use it on every cut that is not through. The last graduation on my stop collar is eigths but it is easy to get ~1/32 eyeballing between graduations.

-Brian

[Lewis Cobb]

Check out Woodsmith #183 - Some fellow used a Wixey digital height guage mounted on a drill press - looks pretty slick too.

[Brandon Weiss]

I use my DP for more than just wood working. I suppose most would also.
If the planer DI could be made to read in reverse, I would mount one of those to the DP.

My vote is 1/32" isn't accurate enough.

For woodworking I would say it sure is. What do you do on your drill press that would require more accuracy than that? Machining applications? If so, and it works the way Barry says it does, but just reading the depth, not stopping the bit at the desired depth, then I challenge you to have a steady enough hand to control dimensions smaller than 1/32 manually. How do you currently control your depth operations on the drill press? If you say 1/32 isn't good enough then you must have an idea in mind that will require more accuracy and you must have done it before....

[Van Huskey]

I love DROs and have 5 Wixeys in my shop but the DP is one place I have never felt the need for one. If I did though 1/32" would be fine for me in that application (for wood of course)

[Myk Rian]

For woodworking I would say it sure is. What do you do on your drill press that would require more accuracy than that? Machining applications? If so, and it works the way Barry says it does, but just reading the depth, not stopping the bit at the desired depth, then I challenge you to have a steady enough hand to control dimensions smaller than 1/32 manually. How do you currently control your depth operations on the drill press? If you say 1/32 isn't good enough then you must have an idea in mind that will require more accuracy and you must have done it before....
Barry asked for opinions, and I gave mine. It doesn't matter HOW I use my DP, nor HOW I control the depth. I would like to see a bit more accuracy. That's all we were asked to comment on.

If your purpose is to create an argument, then I shall ask a moderator to shut this thread down, thus defeating Barrys purpose for it.

[Brandon Weiss]

Barry asked for opinions, and I gave mine. It doesn't matter HOW I use my DP, nor HOW I control the depth. I would like to see a bit more accuracy. That's all we were asked to comment on.

If your purpose is to create an argument, then I shall ask a moderator to shut this thread down, thus defeating Barrys purpose for it.


Wow.......

I guess I'm not free to ask questions. I was just curious. Please don't ask the mods to shut down the thread, no need to punish the creator of the thread for your misinterpretation of my post. That's all we need anyways, is more and more threads being shut down. You are absolutely correct, you answered his question. Forgive me for inquiring about your answer....:cool:

[Dan Friedrichs]

I use my DP for more than just wood working. I suppose most would also.
If the planer DI could be made to read in reverse, I would mount one of those to the DP.

My vote is 1/32" isn't accurate enough.

I presume Mr. Wixey has discovered some reason that >1/32" accuracy isn't possible.

That being said, do you currently have some set-up that allows you to get better accuracy? I'm genuinely curious.

[pat warner]

You probably did not ask me but I do have a positive stop that won't slip and can be used at any depth. Small changes are made with feeler gages.
The cylinder on the stop (http://patwarner.com/images/drilling2.jpg) has a set screw. Plunge drill to desired depth, stops slides to zero, a quick twist of the set screw, depth is set.

[glenn bradley]

Hi Barry,

My DP can probably be varied a depth of 1/64" with the stop set so I would see this as OK. Perception has a way of driving the buyer sometimes though. Look at the replacement of the Grizzly G0513X bandsaw with the Go513X2; same saw, same gear teeth but, cast iron vs. steel trunnions. You are doing well by asking this question up front from forums like this as "We" are your potential customers and you need to know what "We" may see as a go/no-go issue. ;-) Good luck.

[Brad Townsend]

Check out Woodsmith #183 - Some fellow used a Wixey digital height guage mounted on a drill press - looks pretty slick too.

That fellow would be me, and thank you.:D

The idea was using the Wixey remote router lift readout on the drill press. While it works well, it requires some creativity to fit to different types of drill presses. Mine was rather simple, but other DPs would not be easy to do this with. If Barry can market one specifically for drill presses that is more easily adapted to all the different ones out there, that would be a great help. It's refreshing to have someone seek feedback from actual woodworkers. Barry will do it right.

[Alan Schaffter]

As Barry knows I am a big fan of all things digital (Hey, Barry) but I see a number of issues with a digital unit on a drill press.

First, as already has been mentioned you will need to recalibrate each time you change bits. That can be often if drilling thick, hard metals. Unlike end mills etc. which often mount at the same depth in a mill, it is not as easy to do the same on a drill press.

Second, in relation to the first point, what is the reference point you will use to calibrate the gauge/stop? The tip of the bit, or the shoulder of a twist drill, rim of a Forstner, paddle or paddle tips of a speed bore, flute of a brad point, etc. etc.- you get the point (pun intended :) ) How easy will it be calibrate for the various bits?

You will need to use a stop, or you will be unlikely to control the depth reliably or repeatably with a the readout alone, especially drilling a series of holes. Without a stop, your eyes will need to be on the readout, when they should be on your work.

Even if you use the digital gauge to set the stop, your depth may not be reliable to 1/32". The angle bracket on my Delta is flexible enough that when I put pressure on it when drilling tough material, I suspect that it easily flexes 1/32" or more when I first reach the stop! - and the resulting hole is likely deeper than intended. Actually, just as common and more annoying is having the speed nut type stop slip a thread or two.


For the above reasons I question the need for just an add-on digital depth readout. To be useful it should be a combination readout and stop, that replaces the existing stop, is easy to calibrate and set, and does not slip.

[Steven J Corpstein]

You probably did not ask me but I do have a positive stop that won't slip and can be used at any depth. Small changes are made with feeler gages.
The cylinder on the stop (http://patwarner.com/images/drilling2.jpg) has a set screw. Plunge drill to desired depth, stops slides to zero, a quick twist of the set screw, depth is set.

+ 1 for this, being a machinist in my previous life, if I can get it to less than .010 variation, I do. The more accuracy I strive for, the less variation I have to deal with.

[Mike Reinholtz]

I have a 12" Craftsman DP with a built in DRO that I find a pleasure to use, every time I drill a counter-bore or a hidden hinge I find the DRO extremely helpful. One of the big reasons I haven't upgraded is because none of the floor DPs I have seen come with a DRO (I had been watching the Delta models but they were discontinued).

My father-in-law has been a machinist for 30 years, first thing he noticed about the CM DP's DRO is the resolution may read down to the .001", but it skips by 1/32" to 1/64". Next thing he said was if you need better resolution than that you should be using a mill, not a drill press.

If these come out and work, I will definitely pick one up for a larger floor machine.

[Perry Holbrook]

I installed a cheap digital height indicator on my DP a few years ago. The main reason was for drilling holes for those little 5mm barrel hinges, the depth is critical on those things. That indicator died a while ago and I have not replaced it yet, mainly because I wanted to come up with a better solution.

I do production work and a lot of my drilling is stopped holes. I would be glad to be a tester of a prototype!

Perry

[Barry Wixey]

As usual you guys come through with excellent discussions. Thanks for all the input so far. To clarify things a little, we could make a readout similar to what Brad did with a readout that would accurately measure quill movement to within .001" or .002". The issue is that this would be difficult to fit on every drill press and would cost around $60.00 or more. The idea we have stumbled on would fit every drill press in about 10 minutes and would cost maybe $40.00 or less, however, the accuracy just could not be counted on to be better than 1/32".

In any case you would calibrate it by touching the tip of the drill to the surface to be drilled and push the zero button and for repeating holes a stop is always going to be the way to go.

So ( not to rile anyone up ) I am still looking for examples of operations that require greater accuracy. I understand the machinist view point that "more accurate is always better". Also, chamfering holes in metal or plastics makes some sense if you want a 1/64" chamfer. The 5mm deep hole for hinges is an interesting one but does that need to be closer than 1/32"? Any other operations you can think of that would be done on a drill press instead of a milling machine?

Thank you all again!

[Perry Holbrook]

The 1/32 is more than enough for my particular needs. Mine was set up as you mentioned, touch, reset then drill to desired depth. I don't know that my needs are typical, but I also drill a lot of stopped holes using 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 forstner bits that need to be within 1/16" accurate. If you are wondering why I don't use the stop, the reason is that the stock is not uniform thickness, can vary +/- 1".

Another reason for my interest is the that it is much faster with the digital scale than having to fuss around with resetting the stop.

Perry

[Greg Portland]

Certain hinges require an accurate cut depth. I would never rely on a gauge + hand feeding... using the stop collar would be a requirement.

A better use of Wixey technology (IMO) would be to create an X/Y clamp mechanism where mortises could be quickly cut with a high degree of accuracy. Instead of stopping the drill, aligning, etc. you could plop your wood down, clamp it, align to one corner, and then use the X/Y table to accurately move the workpiece left/right & forward/back to hit all drill locations for the mortise. For example, if you needed to cut a 3" x 3/4" mortise and you were using a 1/2" forstner bit, you would make cuts up to 2.5" in X and 1/4" in Y.

[Danny Burns]

So ( not to rile anyone up ) I am still looking for examples of operations that require greater accuracy.

Thank you all again!

Musical instrument makers use a drill press to thickness their plates.

http://owyheemountainfiddleshop.blogspot.com/2009/10/graduation-of-back.html

Here is a rather expensive adjustable post that is mounted in the DP for accurate thicknessing.

http://www.cremonatools.com/product_info.php?cPath=9_5&products_id=95&osCsid=70b85299ea308a44ba77e789adfa67cf

http://www.cremonatools.com/images/SpessTrap.JPG

Also to drill out peg-boxes.

http://osnesviolins.com/Smallcello/1407.jpg

Violin plates are thicknessed to something like 1/10th of a mm which is in the area of 1/256th of an inch.

That though is the final accuracy, and the drill holes are a guide to reaching that final thickness, but are usually 1 mm thicker than the finished thickness. I think that instrument makers would gladly though pay for the higher priced unit. Have you considered offering both units?

Delta offered for a short time, on their now discontinued drill press, the 20-959lx a digital readout, along with a table designed for doing woodworking. It will be interesting to see what they replace it with.

Grizzly is also suppose to be coming out soon with a new DP, but I can't say if it has a digital readout or not.

I have found that I use to be able to live without digital readouts, but once I got them, I now wonder why I didn't do it sooner. Perhaps this will be the case with a DP readout as well.

[Logan William]

I'm of the opinion that for woodworking purposes 1/32 is way more than sufficient. Most drill presses that were designed for woodworking have enough slop in the quill(both side to side and vertical) that you're likely not going to get any better than that anyway. For someone who actually NEEDS repeatability(not the same as resolution) tighter than 1/32 they're likely not using wood(and if so I question need of tighter than 1/32), will not be using a standard type drill press and likely won't be looking at $40 solutions for depth readouts.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

That's plenty accurate enough for my needs. Now when you want to bring out the deluxe version-- since the drill press isn't a real noisy machine, how about a settable depth with auditory feedback as you close in on your set depth.

[Barry Wixey]

Musical instrument makers use a drill press to thickness their plates.


That though is the final accuracy, and the drill holes are a guide to reaching that final thickness, but are usually 1 mm thicker than the finished thickness. I think that instrument makers would gladly though pay for the higher priced unit. Have you considered offering both units?



Danny. Now that's what I am looking for. Thanks for the excellent examples and links. Yes, we may consider making both. I guess another question I should have asked was how many Creekers' drill presses have the traditional stop rod design and how many have that goofy dial stop built in around the arbor.

Again, thanks to all for the input!