Glue

[Jim R Edwards]

I am not sure if this is the right forum or if it has been previously discussed but I am curious about the quick setting glue from titebond. Has anyone used it before? I am all for speeding up the glue process but I am hesitate to use it on a project I have several hours invested. Also, anyone use the white Gorilla wood glue?

[Joe McMahon]

I am not sure if this is the right forum or if it has been previously discussed but I am curious about the quick setting glue from titebond. Has anyone used it before? I am all for speeding up the glue process but I am hesitate to use it on a project I have several hours invested. Also, anyone use the white Gorilla wood glue?

I have used white Gorrila glue with excellent results. I actually like it a bit more than Titebond.

[Bob Smalser]

Open time....the time necessary to assemble your glueups....and creep....whether or not the glued faces will move against each other under load....and much more important factors in furniture work than speed in drying.

Titebond and other aliphatics usually have short open times, ugly glue lines, fail the creep test and aren't recommended for structural assembly by the manufacturer (Franklin). They are also extremely difficult to repair as heirlooms 50 years down the road when some of the joints come loose.

If you are using high-end traditional tools to build things by hand, they deserve attendant quality in glues. UF Plastic Resin glue remains the furniture assembly standard with hot hide glue substituted in crossgrain or round-tenon joints that will require eventual regluing. Cyanoacrylates are too brittle for structural work, but are handy for cosmetic chip and sliver touchups.

Are Your Glue Joints Repairable?
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=21822


General Notes on Glues and Goos


Resorcinol: The marine standard. If you can get 70 degrees F or higher for an overnight cure and consistent and high clamping pressure with no gaps, you won’t go wrong using it. Cover it overnight with an electric blanket to make sure. Likes wood at 10-15% EMC, according to Navy tests. Long open time. Repairable with epoxy. Ugly red glue line.

Marine Epoxy: The repair and restoration standard. Bonds well to a wide variety of materials, and usable in almost all flexibility and temperature conditions. Needs no clamping pressure, only contact…fills gaps well. Likes wood below 12% EMC. Repairable with itself, joints can often be broken apart for repair with using heat. Clear glue line and can be dyed to match the wood. Controllable open time with different hardeners. Slightly permeable to water vapor and there are reports of failures in fully saturated wood and with White Oak. Very sensitive to UV, requiring protection, and doesn't like heat. If you are scarfing planks that will require steambending, use resorcinol instead.

3M 5200: A rubbery, polyurethane sealant in various colors with adhesive properties sometimes used as a glue. Fails as a glue under water saturation without high clamping pressure, and without the proper strength testing I couldn’t do here, it’s not recommended as a stand-alone marine glue. Repairable with epoxy.

Liquid Polyurethane: Gorilla Glue, Elmer’s Probond, Elmer’s Ultimate, and others. Versatile in temperature and bonding wet wood with moderate open time, these glues aren’t rated for below waterline use but initial use shows potential as a marine glue. Likes high clamping pressure and fits similar to resorcinol…it won’t fill gaps. Will successfully glue green wood at 30% EMC. Repairable with epoxy. Doesn't mind heat...poly can be used to glue steamed laminations without cooling them first. Noticeable, yellow-brown glue lines.

PL Premium Construction Adhesive: This polyurethane goo shows promise as a marine glue with further testing and use. Works like 3M 5200 but cures and behaves like liquid poly. Appears to bond well to everything epoxy does, and more where epoxy and liquid poly won’t, perhaps because of a higher isocyanate content…it bonds to difficult surfaces only cyanoacrylate super glues will bond to. The only general-use glue I’ve found that will bond difficult aliphatic-contaminated surfaces. Appears flexible to temperature and moisture content with gap-filling ability, but as a construction adhesive, its open time is shorter than liquid poly. Appeared to like high clamping pressure, and unlike other glues, wouldn’t bond at all without at least some. Repairable with itself and epoxy. Glue line as in liquid poly.

Urea Formaldehyde Plastic Resin Glue: The old interior furniture standard, and in older marine applications that required well-blended glue lines. Still preferred by many, as it is a no-creep glue easily repaired using epoxy. Long open time, it needs tight fits and 65 degrees F or higher for an overnight cure…it doesn’t fill gaps. Best glue line among them all and moderate water resistance still make it useful for protected marine brightwork applications. A relatively brittle glue and UV sensitive, it requires protection….but its brittleness is an aid to reparability, as joints can be broken apart for repair. An inexpensive powder with a short, one-year shelf life.

The Titebond Family of Aliphatics: Convenient. No mixing, just squeeze. Short open times, fast tack, and short clamping times. A good glue for rough panel layups, as the rough-sawn panel boards can be jointed, clamped, cured, and through the thickness planer inside of an hour in a warm shop. Flexible in temperature and to a lesser extent in moisture content, but the bottled glue can freeze in unheated shops. A flexible glue, it has been reported to creep under load, sometimes several years after the joint was made. The latest “Titebond III” appears to be a stronger glue than its two predecessors. Difficult glues to repair, as they won’t stick to themselves and no other glues will except cyanoacrylates, which are too brittle for general use. Epoxy and fabric aren’t bonding to aliphatic glue lines in marine strip construction, compounding repair difficulties. While not definitive, the new PL Premium appears to bond well to Titebond III residue and is worth pursuing by those repairing old white and yellow aliphatic joints.