Grizzly vs Delta Mortiser?

[Steven Green]

I just got an order for 35 cabinet doors and I'm in the market for a dedicated mortiser. Which would you choose, the Delta 14-651 or the Grizzly G0645? I just spotted the 3/4 horse Shop Fox as well.

[Simon Dupay]

How about a shaper?

[Rob Holcomb]

Steve, I have the Grizzly G0645 and it works fine. No complaints with it but I can't compare it to the Delta as I've never seen or used theirs. It took about an hour to get things all set up with it though. it took a bit of effort to get things working smoothly with the right amount of downward pressure with the handle and needs frequent lubrication to avoid binding.

[Scott Vigder]

Do not discount the General International mortiser. When I did my tool comparison 3+ years ago of Delta, Jet and Fisch, the General came out on top in terms of fence, stability and ease of use. Oh, and their chisels hold an edge really well.

[Richard Wolf]

Just my opinion, but there seems to be so many better ways to make a mortise, then with a dedicated mortiser.

Richard

[Aaron Wingert]

Whichever one you choose, do yourself a favor and spend the money on some high quality chisels/bits. The ones that come with the machines will work if you spend the time on sharpening them, but out of the box they leave a lot to be desired.

I have the Delta and it has been a good machine. No complaints, other than I wish it was a Powermatic. :D

[Mark Woodmark]

Just my opinion, but there seems to be so many better ways to make a mortise, then with a dedicated mortiser.

Richard

I have used my drill press with and without a mortising attachment. I have made two different style jigs and used a router. the router jigs worked pretty good, but depth was limited to the lenght of the router bit. Then I purched the Powermatic mortiser. I love the thing. Very little setup, you dont have to be Charles Atlas to pull the handle down, and it will go much deeper than a router bit. If your morising the rail to stile joint, thats 140 mortises to do. That might take a while with a drill press and hand chisels

[Mark Woodmark]

How about a shaper?

A shaper would gain you a tool that does more than just rails and stiles. The mortise will be much stronger than what a rail and stile shaper cutter will produce. The rail and stile cutter is obviously much quicker, that is why most cabinet shops make their doors with them. I have seen rails and stile shaper cutter joints fail, especially in a humid environments such as a bathroom or kitchen. You are glueing end grain to long grain basically and end grain does not produce a strong glue joint. Cabinet shops increase the joints strength by pin nailing the joint, but this requires the pin nail to be very close to the edge of the board which somewhat negates its purpose which was to strengthen the joint

[Rod Sheridan]

Do not discount the General International mortiser. When I did my tool comparison 3+ years ago of Delta, Jet and Fisch, the General came out on top in terms of fence, stability and ease of use. Oh, and their chisels hold an edge really well.

I agree, I've owned the GI mortiser for 8 years and have many mortises with it.

It has a good hold down, and a good vise for securely holding the work.

The fence adjusts well, the operating lever is a good length, and the chisels and bits work well.

Out of the bench top machines it seems to have consistently high ratings in magazine tests, and by owners.

Regards, Rod.

[BOB OLINGER]

Hi Steve,

I set out to build a lot of plantation shutters a little over a year ago (likely around 50 - 60 when I get done). I started out following Norm's plans which use a dedicated mortiser. Not having one, I searched sources and purchased the Shop Fox mostly because the motor was 3/4 HP instead of 1/2 HP on most others. Also, it has a swivel base that looks like would come in handy. Looks to me like there are several brands at about the same price that will do the same - given my reason to opt to the Shop Fox. I also bought the Grizzly tenon jig - you'll need one of those as a companion to the mortiser. Maybe I'm too impatient, but I quickly found out this type of joint work takes more time than I'm willing to devote to it. Given the joints on plantation shutters aren't challenged too much as they are infrequently opened and closed, I went from M & T to biscuts. I'm about 1/3 done. Now, I purchased a dowel jig system and will try that soon. If goes as hoped, that will be very fast and also equally strong. In my limited use of the Shop Fox mortiser, it seemed to perform nicely. Likely more info than you're looking for, but my experience. Good Luck!!!

[Peter Aeschliman]

I have the delta. I've only used it for a few projects- most of the time it collects dust.

It's an okay tool... the price isn't outrageous and neither is the performance. Like Rob's issue with his Grizzly, I have had trouble getting it to plunge smoothly. There have been a few points in time when I've had to do a little dismantling and lubing, and even now I still feel like I really have to put too much weight on the handle to get it to plunge.

I have only used the OEM chisels, and found that they don't really leave clean walls inside the mortise. I still have to spend quite a bit of time with a chisel to clean them up. The chisels also get stuck in the mortise with every plunge. I don't know if it's because my machine isn't aligned properly or what, but you absolutely have to use the hold downs for every cut or else you won't be able to free the workpiece from the chisel.

If you're near a rockler or woodcraft, I'd recommend going in and giving it a try. Again, the price isn't all that bad, so it's a "you get what you pay for" situation. For me, it hasn't saved me much time vs. using the drill press to hog out the material and a chisel to square it up...

I've found myself surfing the net over the last few months looking into options for a slot mortiser. For cabinet doors, I'd think that loose tenons would be the quickest, most repeatable, and most accurate way to make the M&T joints.

Laguna has a floor-standing unit, but we're talking a whole other price range ($1k). If I could do it over again, I would've bought a combo jointer/planer with a slot mortiser attachment (laguna sells those too, as well as the more expensive euro brands). Spendy, but more capacity for milling operations + a slot mortiser. Anyway, I'm meandered off topic, but hopefully my delta review gives you some insight.

[John Pratt]

I have the Delta mortiser and I am less than impressed. Notwithstanding others views about Delta, I am a fan of many of their tools. The mortiser, however, is not one that I would purchase again. I am looking to replace it now (I started another thread asking about the Leigh FMT vs. the Super FMT).

[Troy Turner]

Have you looked at Steel City's lately? Bought one a few months ago and WOW!!! Setup took a little patience, but paid off nicely in the end. Heavy..90lbs Wide base, ext wings, solid, true, 90 degree fence with micro adjust. Best advice I got when I was buying, which I couldn't use but, if you can go somewhere and put your hands on them, that'll help you out too. I didn't have anywhere to go put the forums and the internet though.

Good luck!!!

[Steven Green]

I hadn't seen the General International thanks for that information. I've always done mortising by hand using a drill press but I've also never done this many doors on one job either. Thanks guys for the input.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Steven,

I bought the GI at Woodcraft recently. It performs well.

I will tell you that initially I was a little disappointed. Then I did some reading on mortisers...no pun intended...in general. I improved it's performance by honing both the inside cutting edges and the outside cutting edges on the chisels. This applies to any mortiser..whether Delta, Grizzly....GI .......any mortiser chisel.

After sharpening and honing the chisel, it cut nice clean mortises.

[Frank Drew]

Just my opinion, but there seems to be so many better ways to make a mortise, then with a dedicated mortiser.

Richard

I'm not sure what you have in mind, Richard; if you mean there are better ways than with a hollow chisel mortiser, I'd agree. But a slot mortiser is a dedicated machine and I've never found a better way -- hand or machine -- to make mortises.

Cost? Well, that's an entirely different matter; these machines, the good ones anyway, represent significant investments (but not more than a good table saw.)

By the way, I very much agree with Mark Woodmark on the limitations of profile cut joinery for doors.

[Richard Wolf]

I'm not sure what you have in mind, Richard; if you mean there are better ways than with a hollow chisel mortiser, I'd agree. But a slot mortiser is a dedicated machine and I've never found a better way -- hand or machine -- to make mortises.

Cost? Well, that's an entirely different matter; these machines, the good ones anyway, represent significant investments (but not more than a good table saw.)

By the way, I very much agree with Mark Woodmark on the limitations of profile cut joinery for doors.


I meant a hollow chisel mortise machine. I just think the machine is only making a mortise, you are still at your own devices to make a matching tenion, and the fit of the joint in dependent on your skill level. Dowel max, Leigh FMT, Domino, Bead lock, router template, biscuit,etc. I also realize that your depth is greater with a chisel mortiser, but he is only make cabinet doors, so depth should not be an issue.

Richard

[Jeff Mackay]

I agree that slot mortisers are good. I tried a Fisch mortiser and found the motor to be too weak. Moved to a Jet, and didn't like the hold-down. I then tried the Grizzly G0450 horizontal boring machine, and liked it much better than either of the hollow-chisel mortisers. I later bought a Robland X31, which has a horizontal boring table extension. I think both are superior to the lower end mortisers. But the problem with a horizontal boring machine is that you have to round over tenons. Doesn't sound like much of a compromise, but it costs time when doing a lot of mortises.

But now that I'm starting to replace the X31 with dedicated machines, I'm thinking about going back to a hollow chisel mortiser. This time I won't go with one of the cheaper models. Instead, I'm considering either the Grizzly 0448, General 75-075, or Powermatic 719T. Each of these tilts, has serious mechanism to hold down and position stock, and enough power to drill mortises in hardwoods.

[Kevin Groenke]

Like Rob's issue with his Grizzly, I have had trouble getting it to plunge smoothly. There have been a few points in time when I've had to do a little dismantling and lubing, and even now I still feel like I really have to put too much weight on the handle to get it to plunge.

I have only used the OEM chisels, and found that they don't really leave clean walls inside the mortise. I still have to spend quite a bit of time with a chisel to clean them up. The chisels also get stuck in the mortise with every plunge. I don't know if it's because my machine isn't aligned properly or what, but you absolutely have to use the hold downs for every cut or else you won't be able to free the workpiece from the chisel.
.

Peter,

I don't think there's anything wrong with your mortiser, you're just expecting the impossible.

Unlike a drill press, a hollow chisel mortiser requires SIGNIFICANT downward pressure to "chisel" the corners of the mortise. Significant hold-downs and force are also required to retract the chisel simply because of the friction of 4 or 2 sides of the chisel being trapped in the mortise. If you haven't already done it, honing the inside and outside of your mortising bits will probably improve your results, but only to a certain degree.
http://vodpod.com/watch/443234-tuning-a-hollow-mortice-chisel

I rarely consider a mortise from a hollow mortiser assembly-ready. Usually a quick clean-up with a broad chisel is all it takes to clean it up. Then I measure the finished mortise and go to work on the tablesaw with the tenoning jig. I use a shop-built plunge router based jig for mortises more often than I use the hollow chisel.

For what it's worth, our old Delta benchtop mortiser in on the short list of equipment to be replaced. I find it underpowered, the chisel often clogs up with chips and stalls the motor. I will replace it with either a PM or Grizzly floor standing unit or a Richline slot mortiser (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_rMXIpfj3g).

-kg

[Paul McGaha]

I have the Powermatic floor standing model. Pleasure to use. I bought it based on the reviews in American Woodworker Magazine.

PHM

[Harlan Coverdale]

I think the General International is considered about the best of the benchtop mortising machines, but it's also pricier than the others. I have the 3/4 hp Shop Fox and have been happy with it. The fence adjustment and hold-downs could be improved, though. The General, and to some extent the Steel City, seem to be better equipped in that regard. If I had the money, I'd take the General, Steel City, or Shop Fox (in that order) before I'd get the Griz or the Delta. As has been said, the factory chisels need work, and if I did more mortises than I do, I'd spend for some higher quality chisels.

[Rob Holcomb]

Hi Steve,

I set out to build a lot of plantation shutters a little over a year ago (likely around 50 - 60 when I get done). I started out following Norm's plans which use a dedicated mortiser. Not having one, I searched sources and purchased the Shop Fox mostly because the motor was 3/4 HP instead of 1/2 HP on most others. Also, it has a swivel base that looks like would come in handy. Looks to me like there are several brands at about the same price that will do the same - given my reason to opt to the Shop Fox. I also bought the Grizzly tenon jig - you'll need one of those as a companion to the mortiser. Maybe I'm too impatient, but I quickly found out this type of joint work takes more time than I'm willing to devote to it. Given the joints on plantation shutters aren't challenged too much as they are infrequently opened and closed, I went from M & T to biscuts. I'm about 1/3 done. Now, I purchased a dowel jig system and will try that soon. If goes as hoped, that will be very fast and also equally strong. In my limited use of the Shop Fox mortiser, it seemed to perform nicely. Likely more info than you're looking for, but my experience. Good Luck!!!

Bob, I agree with you! It is a lot of work. Set up takes a lot of time and if you are on a deadline to get pieces done, another method of joinery would be my choice. I'm looking into a Festool Domino but they are expensive. In the meantime, I use whatever method gets the job done sufficiently and with the least amount of time necessary.