spalted box elder bowl and a blank cutter

[Jim Ketron]

got to do some turning this weekend I got a new STIHL 250 18" bar chainsaw for my B-day after bringing it home went a raided the next door neighbors fire wood pile to try it out:D and after the blank set in the shop for a few days decided to turn a bowl with it. This is my 2nd bowl Ive tried just getting some practice in! I need to make the bottom more rounded and flow a little better. (tips from some helpful fellers)
I may try make another soon and make it more round at the bottom
Jim

[Jim Becker]

Very nice bowl. Very nice toy. What's not to like??? :D

[Jim Ketron]

Very nice bowl. Very nice toy. What's not to like??? :DThanks Jim
:)

[Brad Schmid]

Very nice Jim! I only wish my second bowl looked that good ;)
Cheers,
Brad

[Michael Stafford]

Very nice, Jim. A spectacular firewood fine. I quit burning wood in my fireplace a few years ago so my firewood pile is non-existent. Keep up the good work!

[John Miliunas]

Congrats on the new bread knife and that's one nice looking bowl you whittled yourself! :D Great job for a fifth or 6th effort, much less second! :) I'm assuming you wore proper breathing protection when working with the spalted? Hope so! Anyhow, nice job and keep those pics coming. :cool:

[Ted Shrader]

Jim -

The wood in that bowl is great! Good selection. The form of the bowl shows the wood off very well - only your second one. WOW!

See you got a picture of the chainsaw prior to it being fired up. Bet it looks a little more broken it now. :) :) Congrats.

Regards,
Ted

[Glenn Hodges]

Looks like you caught that spalting just right, great looking bowl.

[Sparky Paessler]

Great looking bowl and saw! I'm still using my 25 year old Homelight saw. Nice B-day present.

[Steve Stube]

Great a "Turners Forum" afterall. I have an itch to try some turning and think it will be easier for me to glean from a group dedicated to turning and not have to sort thru a bunch of ... well non-turning stuff to get the information.

Jim, that is a very nice looking bowl you've made. I like it! Now for a question, you say, "I need to make the bottom more rounded and flow a little better. (tips from some helpful fellers)". If that is what you want to do/try fine but the outside bottom is flat why can't the inside bottom be flat? Isn't each turning a separate design, the turners expression and up to him when to lay the tools down and start the sanding/finishing phase of his creation? If I have to or need to turn a piece to someone else's expectations, where is the joy in that?

I hope I can find a wood specimen similar to yours to turn. I wouldn't have thought to wear any breathing protection when working with spalted wood, what are the recommendations for such.

[Jim Becker]

but (if) the outside bottom is flat why can't the inside bottom be flat?
It can. Design is that way. But it's also harder to turn a bowl with a flat bottom than it is to create a continuous curve...believe it or not! That said, most folks early in their turning career make bowls with wide, flat bottoms inside and out, largely due to the "visual guidance" that their faceplate or chuck provides. Most people will gradually refine their forms, both naturally and through instruction, however. It's not a matter of right or wrong, but one of developing tastes. And you are absolutely correct that one should work with forms they enjoy, too.

The concept of a "continuous curve" is something that is stressed by trainers and those who judge art forms in most cases...and that will influence most of us at some point. Jim's bowl is a very nice piece that actually a lot farther along that path than many people new to turning and I really like it a lot!

[Brad Schmid]

I wouldn't have thought to wear any breathing protection when working with spalted wood, what are the recommendations for such.


Steve,
Although breathing protection is always important when turning, it should even be considered more so with spalted timber. Spalting is essentially the result of mold growth, wood diseases, early stages of rot, etc. As you can imagine, breathing mold spores under any circumstance could be extremely dangerous.
Cheers,
Brad

[Steve Stube]

Thanks for the comments. I get it, breathing protection is a GOOD idea because of mold present but what do you use? Type? Brands? Where do I shop for such? I don't want to be hijacking a thread, should I ask this as a separate question/thread? I did turn 4 or 5 bowls in high school woodshop (~ 45 years ago) so I might not be brand new to bowl turning but close.

[Tyler Howell]

Both real nice Jim.

That new shop agrees with you.;)

[Brad Schmid]

Steve,

I too hesitate to hijack Jim's thread. If you will start a new thread, I'll gladly post some info for you. Hopefully it will also help catch the eye's of others that can contribute as well.
Cheers,
Brad

[George Tokarev]

Dust mask should do. Knock off the bark to get rid of the spores, that's where the fruiting bodies are. What you see are the "roots." It'd be pretty poor reproductive practice for an organism to hide its spores in wood, waiting for a turner to spread 'em.

Now, there are a bunch of toxins in that wood, where the fungus has been trying to defend its meal from competing bacteria and vice/versa. Been that way for billions of years. That's where we get antibiotics.

If you feel tightness in the chest or an itch, get thee some Benadryl, pronto!

[Jim Ketron]

Thanks for all the kind comments Men:)

Hey Steve thats some good Q's I dont mind at all post all you guys want its what the forum is for:D
Jim

[Brad Schmid]

Ok, since Jim has given us the green light... :)

Steve,

When I started turning, I was using those white filter type masks that cover your mouth and nose. For a while they seemed to be "good enough" and they felt like they were doing a pretty good job... It wasn't until I started turning some of the nastier stuff like Jarra burl, Cocobolo, Bocote, etc. that I realized it wasn't enough. I realized I was sucking dust around the mask where it wouldn't quite seal and only noticed it because these woods had more of an effect on my respiratory system than the domestics.

From there, I went to a Binks half mask with cannister filters. While this was a definite improvement in air quality entering my lungs, they are hot (especially combined with the legendary South Texas summer heat), they don't work well with full face shields, and they are tiring to wear for long periods as your lungs have to work to pull air through them.

I finally settled on a 3M Airstream AS400 PAPR (10cfm). While not cheap, they are good at what they are designed to do. They provide comfortable respiratory, head, eye, and optional hearing protection and are relatively cool to wear (all of which I wanted) . Field of vision is good, with no distortion. They seal around the face (as opposed to having a hood) and due to positive pressure are not dependent on a 100% airtight seal to provide protection. The battery clips on your belt and lasts quite a long time on a charge (at least 8-9 hours). The headgear is well balanced, and does not bother my neck even after long stretches of use.

Another thing you will hardly ever see discussed in conjuction with protection from wood dust is the dust generated by grinders during the sharpening process. This didn't even cross my mind until I saw it discussed on another forum about a year ago by a gentleman who had respiratory problems and was diagnosed by doctors to have a significant quantity of aluminum oxide in his lungs due to years of sharpening turning tools. Dangerous stuff...

This topic has been discussed some here before and there are several opinions on this subject, and I hope you get some more. From what I understand, there have been some mask type filters come on the market recently that do a better job than that of their previous generation. There are also respirators available from both Trend and Triton that warrant a look see. The most important thing is actually wearing whatever you decide to get. If the device you get gives you any reason not to wear it, you probably won't.

I'll refrain from publically identifying any specific vendors out of respect for the forum rules, but if you want to PM me, I can point you at a few.

For me it was a no-brainer. I could spend a little extra now and protect myself from these dangers, or I could spend a lot more later with doctors and still suffer the long term effects. Just my 2 cents ;)

Cheers,
Brad

[George Tokarev]

Well, you're talking about two phenomena here, most likely, and attributing all to the dust. The masks are pretty good at excluding dust, but the oils in the wood in question - the natural insecticides and fungicides - can get right through. That's probably why you got relief from the cannisters - organics are adsorbed by the charcoal. I Imagine comfort would be quite a problem in Texas climate, but don't talk to me about difficulty breathing through the mask until you've done a couple hours in a HEPA mask with a TB patient!

Unfortunately, the information on the "dangers" of wood dust have failed to make this distinction as well. Particulate danger is extrapolated from data on inorganic irritants like asbestos and silica; there is no pathologcal data on encapsulation or scarring based on wood dust, an observable factor in the carcinogenicity of both inorganics. Further, there was no attempt made to control the data by separating the population using solvents and finishing chemicals (or even smokers!) from those merely exposed to the dust. Chemical irritation can be powerful, its negative effects can be almost instantaneous, and can provoke anaphylaxis, an immediate threat to life. Prolonged exposure to chemicals from smoke, wood, finishes and so forth can diminish lung function to a point that our reserve pulmonary capacity, reduced by the loss of elasticity brought on by aging can result in emphysema and pulmonary insufficiency.

Fortunately we can clean the air brought to our noses or haul away the offending substances as produced, pretty easily. We can collect and expel irritants or use positive pressure breathing devices like the one you use. Some use both. Then they get contact dermatitis from the oils coming in contact with their skin!