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James Farrow
11-08-2004, 4:39 PM
Here's pics of my first turning:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/JamesDFarrow/100_0219.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/JamesDFarrow/100_0221.jpg

Still lots to do. Still don't know what kind of wood it is. Hard as a rock ans heavy too.

James :)

Jim Becker
11-08-2004, 4:48 PM
Looks like oak to me, James, and as such...yea, hard stuff!! Keep up the good work!

James Farrow
11-08-2004, 4:53 PM
Thanks!

You are being kind. LOL!

It's fun though. Learned one thing today. What kind of chisels "not" to
use on the inside. LOL! Jamed the turning twice. Thought I broke the lathe.
Will learn eventually. Books are good, but not a substitute for hands on (trial and error).

James :)

Ted Shrader
11-08-2004, 4:55 PM
James -

That looks right spiffy and you are learning all the same time. Nice work!

Ted

James Farrow
11-08-2004, 4:59 PM
Thanks!

The worst part was roughing out the blank. Put it on square first. That was a nightmare. Not that is was that wobbley, but being that hard was really hard on the gouge.

So then I sawed the corners off with a hand saw. Took over an hour. LOL!

Once it is rounded out it goes pretty good though.

James :)

Jim Becker
11-08-2004, 5:00 PM
It's fun though. Learned one thing today. What kind of chisels "not" to use on the inside. LOL! Jamed the turning twice. Thought I broke the lathe.
Will learn eventually. Books are good, but not a substitute for hands on (trial and error).
Hands-on is absolutely a must. And seeing it done is also important...be sure to join your local AAW (http://www.woodturner.org) chapter so you can get some mentoring if there is one within reasonable distance from your home.

Here's a little hint, too...consider the shape of your first bowl a moment. When you have something that has relatively flat sides and a flat bottom connected by a relatively tight radius, it's actually a lot harder to turn. (Which is one reason your first effort is even more impressive!) Many folks, however, start out making many bowls in this shape--all of us, especially if we do so without lessons or mentoring. A more sweeping, continuous curve is much easier to cut when hollowing so try to envision that as you "design" some of your practice projects. And always use a bowl gouge and/or a scraper for hollowing your bowls. Spindle gouges, roughing gouges and skews should never be used for that purpose...for both practical and safety reasons.

James Farrow
11-08-2004, 5:08 PM
Thanks!

I know now that roughing gouges are not to be used inside. LOL!

The Round-nosed scraper worked the best.

James :)

Jim Becker
11-08-2004, 5:13 PM
I know now that roughing gouges are not to be used inside.
Actually, they are not to be used on any work that is in "faceplate" orientation with the grain perpendicular to the spindle...which means the outside of most bowls, too. Roughing gouges are spindle turning tools and should only be used when the grain is oriented with the spindle.

James Farrow
11-08-2004, 5:18 PM
Which gouge should I use on the outside?

My long bowl gouge has a really small diameter. Worked well inside,
but seemed useless on the outside.

James :)

Jim Becker
11-08-2004, 5:25 PM
My long bowl gouge has a really small diameter. Worked well inside, but seemed useless on the outside.
Most folks work well with a 3/8" bowl gouge for both the interior and exterior cutting on bowls especially while learning. But even a smaller 1/4" gouge can be used on the exterior...it's a matter of technique. (Personally, I use a 5/8" gouge with a side-grind for these purposes, but switch to a smaller tool for small objects)

I'm not sure how you bought your tools, but many "sets" usually don't come with what you need to to much with bowls. They tend to be spindle oriented. As you aquire more tools, buy them individually and in the configuration best for the job...knowledgable folks will be happy to help you make those decisions, too.

James Farrow
11-08-2004, 5:31 PM
This is the set I got:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/JamesDFarrow/ChiselSet.jpg

3/16" x 13/16" Parting tool -17" long
13/16" Round nose scraper - 17" long
7/16" Gouge - 17" long
1 1/8" Skew - 19" long
1" Gouge - 19" long
1/2" Gouge - 22 1/2" long

I figured they would be good enough to learn on. Figured I would get better ones later on.

Since I will be doing mostly bowls and vases I guess I should get a really good bowl gouge first.

James :)

Jim Becker
11-08-2004, 5:35 PM
Assuming that the 1/2" gouge is a bowl gouge...that's the one to use.

James Farrow
11-08-2004, 5:38 PM
That's the one that worked well on the inside. But on the outside was really not very good. Now, it may be because the wood was like rock but not sure.

James :)

George Tokarev
11-08-2004, 7:19 PM
Here's pics of my first turning:


Still lots to do. Still don't know what kind of wood it is. Hard as a rock ans heavy too.

James :)
Appears to be American beech. The ray flecks are a pretty good indicator. As it is dry already, should hold. I've had nothing but grief with beech cut heart up, but heart down, as you have, it seems to hold.

Mark Kelly
11-09-2004, 10:54 AM
Jim, last night I cut a small blank so as to turn a small bowl next week in my class. The blank is 5 1/5 inches square and 2 3/4" thick. I was going to turn a shallow sweeping bowl with it, and since it is still green turn it to 1" thickness overall. You mentioned the appropriate tools to use in your post. From the tools I use they have two gouges, but I don't think they are bowl gouges as the gullet is not very deep. Are you saying this is the wrong tool for the job even though I will be making very shallow cuts?

Jim Becker
11-09-2004, 11:02 AM
Spindle gouges with shallow flutes are not designed to "reach into" the hollows of a bowl and will perform disappointingly. You need to be able to rub the bevel through the entire cut and you'll notice that on a bowl gouge the angle of the bevel at the end of the tool is very steep as compared to a spindle gouge. A nice resource about bowl gouges is located at: http://www.peterchild.co.uk/info1/sflute.htm . Compare the flute of your gouges to the pictures in this article...if they are significantly shallower in profile, than you have spindle gouges and they are not really the right tool for bowl turning. Pick up a 3/8" bowl gouge to learn with and then adjust to a larger one when appropriate once you get the hang of it.

My preference is for a bowl gouge ground "somewhat" like E near the bottom of the page, although mine (and Ellsworth grind) isn't ground back quite so much on the sides. This form of tool is not only incredibly versatile, but it also is easier to keep the bevel rubbing inside of a bowl which reduces the chance of a catch. On the outside, the varying edge provides many, many options for cutting from super agressive to a very fine shearing cut at a 45º angle for final finishing of the surface.

Mark Kelly
11-09-2004, 11:24 AM
No, the gouges I have look nothing like the gouges in the picture. I guess if I want to do this then I need to buy my own tool...but that is hard to do for just one more class. I don't have a lathe (yet) and it is hard to justify a purchase of a tool to use for 2 hours! Thanks!!

Jim Becker
11-09-2004, 11:31 AM
Mark, investing in the tool (assuming you can do that right now) is not a wasted investment. Something like the Sorby 3/8" Fingernail Bowl Gouge (http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=packard&Product_Code=108702F&Category_Code=tools-srby-fg) will last you for years. (Packard is a great vendor to do business with, BTW)

Michael Stafford
11-09-2004, 11:55 AM
Jim, this has become a very useful thread. I have learned so much. I am pretty much a self-taught turner and as I have said before that I am limited by having a poor teacher teaching a poor student.

Jim, you are an asset to all of us hobbyists out here. Keep up the good work! :D

Steve Inniss
11-09-2004, 3:34 PM
James, as mentioned the gouge that worked well on the inside should be the one to use on the outside (also as mentioned - as long as it's a bowl gouge). Sounds like it may be a problem with the sharpness on the gouge. Unless it's sharp, it'll just bounce around on the outside. How's your grinding? -Steve

James Farrow
11-09-2004, 3:59 PM
Here's a picture of the gouge:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/JamesDFarrow/100_0222.jpg

There are no wings (or whatever you call them) near the front like my other gouge so that, plus the length of 22 1/2", made me think it's a bowl gouge but I am not sure.

I think I will get the Ellsworth Bowl Gouge anyway as it comes highly recommended.

As for grinding, have't done any yet. Just used this gouge for the first time yesterday so didn't think it would be dull. Like I said, it worked great inside, but outside just didn't seem to work very well.

James :)

George Tokarev
11-09-2004, 4:01 PM
Spindle gouges with shallow flutes are not designed to "reach into" the hollows of a bowl and will perform disappointingly. You need to be able to rub the bevel through the entire cut and you'll notice that on a bowl gouge the angle of the bevel at the end of the tool is very steep as compared to a spindle gouge. .
I note you expresed yourself similarly about roughing gouges. I use both forbidden instruments.

I do my initial mount with what will become the bottom of the bowl toward the tailstock, and have abundant room to safely swing the roughing gouge. People who mount and work out from the headstock will not. Following the first rule of lathe work, which is save all the leverage for yourself, I place the toolrest up close to what will become the bottom of the bowl - nearly perpendicular to the axis of rotation, and then follow the ABCs.

A = Anchor the tool on the rest. I find this easier to do by skewing the tool edge slightly to trail the direction of cut, and cutting at or slightly below centerline, where the thrust of the rotation is taken up by the rest, and not me. My off hand is over the tool to anchor it.

B = Bevel first. I lay the rear of the bevel on the work, rotating with my non-anchor hand until it's sliding on the piece. Sometimes I want to roll a bit to get a good bevel guide as I begin to cut. I guide, not ride the bevel, especially if the piece is not yet round. That way I can maintain the favorable cutting aspect and let the rotation bring the wood to the edge which is anchored to the rest.

C = Cut the wood as it wishes to be cut. To cut cleanly through the fibers I want my edge as near to perpendicular to them as possible, but I also know that sliding the edge makes a cleaner cut than stabbing, so I skew the tool and let the rotation do the sliding for me. It's the same as running the knife laterally when whittling. If I'm cutting wood, the shavings fall, they do not fly. The best cut is the one which takes the least pressure to make.

Two pictures of a rough gouge demo are appended, showing the type of cut and where it was rubbing the bevel, as revealed by the resin discoloration. Note the sharp ear clears the work both by curvature of the piece and curvature of the gouge. The point of cut can also be moved to one of the straight ears where it clears only by the curvature of the piece, becoming for practical purposes a skew, producing a beautiful surface.

Now inside, where I follow rule one and my mnemonic. The first inside shows a 3/4 forged gouge hogging red oak. It's throwing shavings and dust because it's cutting on a broad face. The second shows a 1/2 forged spindle gouge peeling for final dimension. Oak is so brittle it won't shave across endgrain when dry, but makes dust instead. There would be nothing but wads of excelsior in a piece of cherry or maple. In both cases, the gouge is rotated slightly to the left to broaden the face of the cut, and the handle is down slightly so that the leading point on the gouge is exiting the piece, severing the shaving. That way it can't catch, because it's clearing in two dimensions, and it won't leave those ugly torn out grain areas, because it's not picking up the fibers. The final passes are made with a narrower face and produce a finer finish.

Oh yes, if you take a look at the slightly undercut pieces in the unnatural edge gaggle, you might be interested to know that they were cut from edge to button with a half inch spindle gouge at approximately 1/4" thickness of wet wood. That's a pucker factor eight on dry wood and open faces, so you can see the method has possibilities Try it, you'll like it.

Jim Becker
11-09-2004, 4:10 PM
There are no wings (or whatever you call them) near the front like my other gouge so that, plus the length of 22 1/2", made me think it's a bowl gouge but I am not sure.
That does appear to be a bowl gouge...with an inappropriate grind on it--the bevel angle is way too shallow. If you get yourself with an experienced turner in your area, they can help you regrind it to a more appropriate configuration for a bowl gouge. Check the AAW chapter listing in the link that I put in an earlier response in this thread.

James Farrow
11-09-2004, 4:22 PM
Thanks, will check it out to see if there is one close to me.

James :)

Steve Inniss
11-09-2004, 4:36 PM
James,

I think you'll find you will have to sharpen more frequently. Most turners have the grinder beside the lathe to do quick touch-ups. It makes a huge difference.

That bowl gouge does appear to be ground too shallow. It's hard to tell if it has flat spots in the image. -Steve