How often do you get swirl marks during arip cut

[Kevin Blunt]

AARRRGGGGHHHHH!

Hello everyone,

I have tried setting up my tablesaw to eliminate the blade swirl marks that I am getting. I have tried everything that I know of.

- Set an MJ splitter with to elimate the workpiece from touching the back of the blade by .000" to .004"

-Tried Dimar saw blade stiffener

-Tried using featherboard

-Tried adjusting my own technique

After everything I have tried I am still getting saw marks. They are very minimal but they are there.

I have used a ridge TS2000, Forrest WWII, Freud Glue line rip, and some thin kerf combo blades from freud.

It is just driving me nuts that I can't eliminate them but I am sure I'll get over it. One pass with a plane or a sander usually takes care of it anyway. It is just frustrating.

So How about the rest of you. How often do you have saw marks after making a rip cut.

I own a Delta hybrid saw which I like except for this problem. Maybe it is quite normal to get these, I don't know. What do you think? What are your experiences and expectations from your saw and blades.

Thanks in advance.

Kevin

[Peter Quinn]

Uh, saw marks happen in my world. Every saw I have ever used has produced them to some extent. I never figured they should go away. Nature of the beast. The idea that a circular saw should make finished quality cuts is perhaps flawed?

[John Thompson]

Have you tried concentrating on keeping the stock tight to the fence all the way through the cut and continous feeding as if you hesitate picking up a push stick you will often get a swirl as you might lose concentration and allow the stock to come off the fence slightly which will swirl it. One reason I always use a feather-board.

Good luck...

[tyler mckenzie]

I sometimes get saw marks ripping, but a perfect finish cross cutting.

[glenn bradley]

I get them if there is stress relief during the cut that causes the material to go odd places. For the most part my 24T Freud with an MJ Splitter on a C-man/Orion 22124 (which is a close cousin to your Delta) does this in 6/4 white oak:

146077

and this in 8/4 beech:

146078

I do get marks off an on but it is not the norm. It sounds like you've put the effort into alignment but I'm afraid that alignment is all I did to cure them.

[Salem Ganzhorn]

For me the key is a constant rate. I also think I sometimes try too hard to keep the stock against the fence.

If I relax a little and keep a constant push rate I usually have glueable edges (off a WWII and a Delta 40 tooth blade).

[Jeff Mackay]

When you use the glue line rip, how high is the blade? For a glue-line rip blade, you might want to try setting the blade so top dead center is just barely (maybe a 32nd) above the stock. Also, keeping the stock tight against the fence and using constant feed rate should help a lot. And finally, you might want to make sure both the blade and the fence are aligned within a few thousandths of the miter slot.

[Glen Butler]

Sometimes I get them sometimes not. Depends on the stresses in the wood being cut. I too was frustrated to no end just a few months ago. Then I read somewhere that the fence should be splayed out of parallel to the blade about .002" That made all the difference.

[Cody Colston]

I always make rip cuts a sixteenth over final width and joint. Never concerned myself about swirl marks.

I did notice that they became slightly more pronounced with my WWII when I attempted to tilt the blade 45 deg. with the ZCI still in place. :eek:

[Chip Lindley]

Kevin, don't obsess over slight rip marks. A glue-line rip can be had even with slight swirl marks! You can maximize your chances of minimal tooth marks by jointing stock flat/straight before ripping, and feeding at a constant rate. Any bow or warp in the stock will show up in the cut line. With sheet goods, it's usually best to feed a straight factory edge against the rip fence.

[Joseph Tarantino]

kevin....i'm assuming you are referring to rip cuts as you mention useing a featherboard. it seems you've spent a lot of time on the blade but make no mention of the fence's relationship to the blade. i was getting some swirl marks on rips in 3/4" stock on my ridgid 2412. then i checked the fence's parallelism to the miter slot (my blade is parallel to the miter slot to within .0002") and found it canted ever so slightly towards the blade (fence is to the right of the blade from the operator's position). took the time to dial in the fence to +/-.0002" and no more swirl marks, at all, as log as i keep the stock tight to the fence. the blade is a 10" 40 tooth craftsman professional (cost $23 on sale).

blade height is also important for cut quality and safety and, according to freud tech support, the top of the stock should bisect the blade's teeth when the blade is at TDC. HTH.

[scott spencer]

Every saw blade you'll use will have some saw marks, and none of them leave a finish ready surface. Some saw marks are more pronounced than others. You have some premium general purpose blades that should leave very small saw marks...sometimes they may even be hard to see but put some stain on them and they'll jump right out.

Your blades you give you edges like those shown in the top two boards below:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/sawparts/Saw%20Blades/sawmarks1.jpg

[Kevin Blunt]

I should add a few things that I have also checked on my saw.

-I have checked the removable washer for imperfections.
-I have checked the arbor and inside arbor washer for runout. Both are within .002".
- I have also checked the runout on a number of different blades just below the teeth and I received the best reading on my Forrest WWII with a blade stiffener on it. It read about .004"-.005" at the outside edge of the blade just below the teeth. That amount of runout isn't too much I wouldn't think. Not at the edge of the blade at least. Maybe I am wrong. I don't know. That is why I am seeking advice.

Cheers,

Kevin

[Lee Schierer]

What saw blade are you using for ripping? I get fewer saw marks with my Freud LU82M than I do with my Freud 24 tooth thin kerf blade. With that said, I generally use my Grip Tite Magnetic feather boards with their rip rollers to keep the piece against the fence all the way through the cut. I usually have one mounted on the table in front of the blade and the second mounted on the fence just behind the blade.

When you rip does the cut off piece also show tooth marks? If it does and they are approximately the same as the piece against the fence then you likely still have an alignment issue.

[john bateman]

I was plagued with this problem until I noticed the arbor/blade carriage on my contractor saw could move (when set to zero degrees) unless the bevel lock was tightened.
This didn't occur when the blade was tilted, as the weight of the motor kept some pressure on the whole assembly.

I also found that tightening this bevel lock pulled the blade out of alignment from the miter slot. So I had to go back and readjust the trunnions to get the blade set correctly.

Also, to eliminate whether it is the wood or the saw, try ripping some 3/4" mdf. That is what I ultimately found...that I was getting kerf marks even in that stuff, which is almost perfectly flat and has no internal tensions.

[Prashun Patel]

+1 for checking the fence; I missed the part where you checked that.

[John Coloccia]

I have my fence kicked out about .002" from the front of the blade to the back, measured with the blade at full extension. I don't get swirls. You can tell by the shape if it's coming from the back of the blade or the front. Setup like this, even the stock blade that came with my SawStop leaves a very clean cut.

The downside is that I can't rip to the left of the blade anymore because now it's kicked in a couple thou, but I never rip left of the blade anyhow.