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David Fairfield
03-23-2010, 11:15 AM
Hi

I use a lot of graphics in conjuction with my laser, e.g. I print a sheet of graphics then use the laser to cut around them.

Forgive me for being a little OT but I'm hoping the collective wisdom here might point me in the right direction for a new color printer. I've been using an HP 932 deskjet, but its basically a money eater. The cartridges always run out of the red color ink quickly and I have to buy a new set.

Is there an economical color printer for commercial use? Graphics need to be nice and sharp.

Thanks! :)
Dave

Dan Hintz
03-23-2010, 11:55 AM
I've always been a huge supporter of HP and their great build quality... until recently. I "upgraded" my lowly 612C for one of their wireless models so I could get the printer off of my desk. The 612C used a single black and a single CMY cartridge, whereas the new one used a separate cartridge for all four colors that are piped into a separate print head. I don't use the printer very often, but the 612C was always ready to go with a clear print... the new one clogs almost immediately if you don't use it every day. A real waste of money, and a shame they couldn't get it to act like the 612C :(

Dee Gallo
03-23-2010, 12:06 PM
I bought a Konica Minolta Laser Magicolor - can't be beat for quality, speed and actually it only costs about 1 cent per copy even though YES the toner cartridges are expensive to start out with...but they print forever it seems.

No it's not a $59 lexmark, but hey those have their place too - just buy a new printer every time you run out of ink. It's cheaper than buying cartridges.

:) dee

ps- Epson has superior quality printers, but you don't get a new nozzle with each cartridge, so they will eventually wear out and you're done with that printer. It's the only brand I know of that does this. Too bad, because they are fantastic.

Lee DeRaud
03-23-2010, 12:21 PM
Epson has superior quality printers, but you don't get a new nozzle with each cartridge, so they will eventually wear out and you're done with that printer. It's the only brand I know of that does this.My Brother all-in-one works that way too: the cartridges are down in the base and don't move with the head. The other side of the coin is that the cartridges can be a lot bigger if they don't have to slam from side to side on every pass.

Mark Winlund
03-23-2010, 1:04 PM
ps- Epson has superior quality printers, but you don't get a new nozzle with each cartridge, so they will eventually wear out and you're done with that printer. It's the only brand I know of that does this. Too bad, because they are fantastic.

They are commonly used for sublimation also.We buy the cheapest we can find, (Epson C88+) due to the clogging problem (usually magenta inks). We can get a printer for less than $100, and just factor the cost into the job.

Mark

Rodne Gold
03-23-2010, 1:21 PM
Ink refill kit?

Dee Gallo
03-23-2010, 1:33 PM
Rod- Have you ever used one? They are awful! At best, they are a complete mess, but at worst they leak all over the place. Better to get a brand you can have refilled at Office Max, but the ink isn't as nice.

Martin Boekers
03-23-2010, 1:47 PM
There is a place called Cartridge World that sells refilled cartridges a bit more than half of the retail cost.

You can buy an aftermarket bulkfeed systems for some of the printers, but they have their issues to.

I would buy a basic printer, forget all the extras, cd printer, 6 colors (more cartridges to buy), scanner etc, it's just more to go wrong.

Marty

David Fairfield
03-23-2010, 2:11 PM
Cartridge World ... I tried them twice, and twice the cartridges failed to work properly. My dog came out green. Total waste of money.

Mark I'm wondering if maybe my magenta cartridge is just clogged. Swab it with alcohol or what?

Is there any significant difference between an ink jet and a color laser printer?

Dave

Dee Gallo
03-23-2010, 2:25 PM
Cartridge World ... I tried them twice, and twice the cartridges failed to work properly. My dog came out green. Total waste of money.

Mark I'm wondering if maybe my magenta cartridge is just clogged. Swab it with alcohol or what?

Is there any significant difference between an ink jet and a color laser printer?

Dave

Dave,

I have both printers - the main obvious difference is that you do not get the lines on a laser printer that you get from an inkjet, since there is no back and forth head movement. The only time you get streaks is when your mirror is dirty and that's a 2 second swipe to clean.

Depending on the quality of the paper you put in them, you can get excellent quality prints from both, but my preference is the laser for crisp lines and true color.

If your head is clogged, spray simple green on a Q-tip and touch the head. Maybe a few times with a clean tip each time. Sometimes it helps to wipe the inside contact but be careful not to press hard. The machine's cleaning process SHOULD clear a clog, but it will use up a lot of ink in the process. And you might have to repeat it several times before it works. AND, as mentioned by someone before, if it sits there for a week without being used, your head will be clogged on at least one color. I hate that.

Toners are a lot less trouble. My last set lasted me over a year and I use my printer every day for full page graphics.

cheers, dee

ps - I have an all-in-one ink jet, which I use mainly for scanning, but this is the printer I use for decals - the inkjet ones come out far better than the laser ones.

Rodne Gold
03-23-2010, 2:26 PM
I also use a cart refill place for non critical work and for my kids and my home printers.
Did try a refill kit once , the inks werent bad , but it sure WAS messy....

Gene Hobbs
03-23-2010, 9:26 PM
If Photo Quality is important, The only way to go is Epson. I was a pro photographer in another life. I traveled all over the country covering racing events. I did this for about seven years and tried every printer on the market. The ones I used are the Epson R800 and R1800 because they use the same ink. A Epson C88+ and Epson 1400 for sublimation work. For wide format look at the older Epson 7600 Printer. Does great work and you can get them under $1000.00 now. In fact I am getting ready to put mine online for sale, simply because I don't use it enough anymore. Great Printers as long as you use them, don't let them set.


Gene

Kim Vellore
03-24-2010, 12:14 AM
Dave,
Your should consider a laser printer. The ink does not dry nor clog up. You cant get the bright contrast in color compared to a inkjet but the newer ones are very close. I got a Xerox Phaser 6180 for ~$250 and the ink that came with it lasted for 3000 pages it was many years for me. I am looking for new ink and I am considering buying one more new printer.

Kim

Niklas Bjornestal
03-24-2010, 3:06 AM
I have been looking at a flatbed printer (from china) http://www.iehk.net/Products/FBP_ecA3.html
They cost a little more than an ordinary printer but the ink is cheap, and they can print on many different materials up to 150mm (about 6") thick.

Rodne Gold
03-24-2010, 3:28 AM
DO NOT BUY THIS!!!!!!
You will have endless trouble , I bought one based on the same epson 890/1290 heads/platform and it never worked reliably , the issue is the heads which clog big time and cant handle the types of inks needed to be used with this type of machine.
To print on anything , the inks have to be a solvent type or eco solvent type (eco wont print on anything either), if you use stock inks , EVERYTHING has to be coated with an ink receptive coating. Solvent inks will kill your heads , pumps , tubing etc. I cannot see how the inks they specify will adhere to "anything" , I use large format printers and know inks and ink technology quite well.
When mine worked , it did work well , but I spent a lot of money and about 10x the amount of time it printed on repairing it and coaxing it back to life.
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!!!

Curt Harms
03-24-2010, 9:51 AM
[QUOTE=Dee Gallo;1380909

<snip>
ps- Epson has superior quality printers, but you don't get a new nozzle with each cartridge, so they will eventually wear out and you're done with that printer. It's the only brand I know of that does this. Too bad, because they are fantastic.[/QUOTE]

I'm not a graphics pro so take this for what it's worth. The last two printers I've bought have fixed ink tanks. HP Photosmart 7400 series and Brother 6490CW. The HP Photosmart has refillable cartridges in it.http://cgi.ebay.com/Refillable-ink-Cartridge-for-HP-02-D7355-D7360-D7260-UV_W0QQitemZ380136594058QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Tone r?hash=item5881e81a8a

They do seem to work. I found out that they all have to be installed at the same time, not as they go empty. They have plugs so just remove the plug, squirt some ink in and replace the plug. The ink gauge does seem to work. They list refillables for other brands as well, including Epson and the chips autoreset. How good is the ink? I have no idea.

Rodne Gold
03-24-2010, 12:06 PM
The biggest problem with inks is how the pigment is ground , cheap inks will have larger and more coarsely ground particles and will clog heads , pumps , dampers etc and will settle out of suspension quicker and give rise to other problems. In all probability you will never achieve perfect colour.

At any rate , the real problem will be pigment fading in respect of what we do , especially under UV exposure

To achieve perfect colour workflow is hugely expensive ...way more than any printers cost. Best most printers can do is kinda get close

If you are printing for ad agencies who are pernickety about the Nth degree of pantone match , you need to have a real complex setup.
I use expensive OEM bulk inks in my large format printers - design is done on a CRT that is in a room with a specific colour and intensity of lighting , we use spiders to calibrate the screen , use a Wasatch RIP and have profiles for EVERY type and brand of media used and have to do test prints every few days to check heads , even have to compensate for temp and humidity...it's a misson.!!!
My best small printers are my Canon Photoprinters and they use a HUGE amt of inks , 8 small carts and most of the inks are used in their self cleaning cycles they go thru every now and then , they do deliver archival quality prints but at a huge cost.

Martin Boekers
03-24-2010, 12:25 PM
Rodne, your right about color management for commercial and agency work.

Color management is a science in itself. and in agency work you not only have to take in your color management, but also take into consideration what light sources and conditions it will be displayed in.

Gratefully most of us will never deal with that in our industry. Beware if you pick up agency and commercial work and if you do, make sure that both you and the client have a clear understanding on the work.

For us, in this industry an Epson or HP are good bets. think of these printers though as basically disposable. I had Epson Tech Support tell me that directly. On a 1400, 13 months old I was told to buy a new one, even though the issue was a faulty switch on the CD printing tray.

After contacting corporate, they agreed to send a refurb. which is working fine for now. In my mind I'm sure I'll have to replace it though within the year as they aren't built to last.

What I have a hard time with is ink costs, give me a break, why do they have to make a new cartridge for each printer? Why isn't that part modular? One word Profits!

Marty

Rodne Gold
03-24-2010, 2:05 PM
Well thats how they got you ...by the inks...the printers themselves are the give aways.
What I have found is that the real cheapy printers also only come with a sort of demo cart - it hardly lasts.

Dan Hintz
03-24-2010, 2:47 PM
To this day, the Sony PlayStation 3 hardware is sold at a loss (something like $50-$75/machine these days, though it was over $200/machine in the early days). They make the money back through licensing fees for the games. The same game is played with printer hardware and the inks, and since they make so much profit on the inks, a number of cartridges now include a chip that prevents refills (without hacking)... the printer sees the cartridge as empty, regardless of actual ink content.