Repair of My "Flying Grizzly 690"

[James Combs]

I thought I would start a new thread to keep everyone posted as to the status of the repairs to my G0690 table saw aka the "Flying Grizzly". I don't recall which poster coin that but it is definitely appropriate. If you are not familiar with my sad sad story (with a happy ending of course) you can get the details here. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=135780

This thread will deal only with the repairs and starts after a thorough exam of all parts and any new parts have been ordered.

First efforts: (this one was covered with photos in my original tragedy post, (see link above) page 4 :o)
- Get the cabinet straightened out in preparation for new paint and parts.
- Check mounting tabs for square and flatness. AOK
- Straighten the brush holder that seals around the blade height adjuster.
- Clean the mud and leaves off the table top and check it for flatness, AOK.
- Clean all my greasy hand prints off the cabinet.

Next: (some these were completed at the same time as above)
Inspect and repair any other parts that will be reused.
- Rear trunnion had two nicks in slide bearing surfaces. Filed them flat with jeweler's file and made sure it slid smoothly with matting trunnion.


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That gets things up to today. I received the new parts today and will fill you in later on how things are going.

[Salem Ganzhorn]

Good luck! I hope your "Flying Grizzly" learns to stay put :).

[Bill ThompsonNM]

Looking forward to watching-- I was thinking though, about you looking to build a mobile base for the flying grizzly-- maybe installing concrete anchors would be a better idea?

[Paul Ryan]

Good luck! I hope your "Flying Grizzly" learns to stay put :).


Are you going to bolt the saw down when you are all fixed up. Most use a mobile base but I think in your case you may want to bolt it down. :D

Good Luck on the rebuild.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

When you bolt on the table extensions, you can tell us you gave the saw "wings". You're good disposition is a treat. Live to be 100. The world needs you.
fmr

[Jim O'Dell]

Good to hear that the parts are there already! Look forward to the reassembly! Jim.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

James,

Good luck with the rehab.

[Dave Lehnert]

Here in Cincinnati we have Flying pigs. Never seen a Flying Grizzly before your mishap.

http://worldwidephotowalk.com/cincinnati-oh-usa/files/2009/07/flying-pigs-819x1024.jpg

[David Helm]

I'm pretty impressed with how quick they got the parts to you. Don't think my damaged Jet would get such quick service (liked the price too).

[Chip Lindley]

James? Any chance your insurance covered any part of the damage?

[Michael MacDonald]

James... somehow I missed the original thread. What an awful situation... you have handled it with a great sense of style. it would take me a distance of years to generate your upbeat attitude... who doesn't like a shiny, untarnished finish on any new toy? It looks like you will get it right and rain in no time... best of luck.

[James Combs]

This will be a summary of Yesterdays activities.

Parts Receipt:
- Opened all the parts. Grizzly did a magnificent job of packaging them. Took a good 45 minutes just to get through all the Stretch wrap, bubble wrap and foam wrap and that was after the double layered cardboard boxes. They must have been afraid I was picking it up again.:D:rolleyes:

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This shows the old and new parts. New to the right except the controls.

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After getting every thing unpacked I transferred the angle crank/worm gear shaft to the new front trunnion slide. Note here that if any of you have to do this to your machine the shaft only comes out in the direction of the crank handle.

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The two brass dogs operated by the locking handle prevent it from being removed in the direction opposite the crank.

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Here I am bench testing the mating of the new trunnion, trunnion slide, angle sector gear, and the worm gear. So far so good.

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This is a test fitting of the new components to the cabinet. Dropped in the bolts to prevent things from falling then proceeded to tighten things up. Slipped the crank on temporarily and ran the trunnion back and forth (actually it would be left and right but who's quibbling:rolleyes:). Everything seems AOK.

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Just a note here. The 45* stop adjuster is probably hard to reach in an assembled saw. It is the one with the green arrow on the left. The 90 degree stop is hidden in the photo but is easier to reach through the motor cover door.

[Jaze Derr]

I declare that you should have a sign made for your shop of a grizzly with wings :)

I'd do it, but I'm not that talented!

[James Combs]

This will finish up the activities for yesterday.

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I have some concern here. There are two adjustments indicated by the green arrows between the ends of rear trunnion slide and the trunnion mounting brackets. I have no idea as to how to or when to adjust them. I checked with Tech Support but there is no guide for this sort of rebuild. There is probably documentation at the factory in "China" but not here. I noticed that when I tightened up the mounting bolts the angle adjust crank got just a bit stiffer to turn, not overly so but stiffer never the less. I will do some trial and error adjustments with them and see if it loosens up the cranking any. The red arrow just indicates the location of the actual mounting bolt 13mm nut. The green arrow adjusters raise and lower the ends of the trunnion slide.

If anyone one has had any experience in making these adjustments please weight in here. I can use all the help I can get.:o

That pretty much took care of Day 0.

Parts Receipt +1 Day
Today has been pretty much a bust. I was hoping to get touch-up paint so that I can start permanently fastening things down. The UPS web sight said it was do to be delivered today but it's after 6 pm now and no sign. Oh well it's been too cold in the shop to work anyway.:( I did manage to get rid of the packaging/dunnage trash and straighten up a little. Maybe tomorrow...

Edit: I originally posted this at 6:19pm now guess what? Mr. UPS arrived sometime between then and now 7:18pm. I am going to the shop guys, catch you later.

[James Combs]

I declare that you should have a sign made for your shop of a grizzly with wings :)

I'd do it, but I'm not that talented!

Since I gave it it's wings and since I have been beating myself up about it for a week now, I probably don't need any more permanent reminders.:D

This one will be enough. It will always be on the corner of the table top :o as my permanent reminder to use tie-downs.
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This corner put a 1 inch deep 10ft long grove in the black top before the saw left the road over an 10ft bank and hit the tree.

[Bruce Page]

JD, you’ll be up & running in no time and you’ll know more about cabinet saws than most of us.
You probably have this on your to-do list already but now would be the time to either caulk or tape up the gap between the cabinet and the floor pan.

[James Combs]

JD, you’ll be up & running in no time and you’ll know more about cabinet saws than most of us.
You probably have this on your to-do list already but now would be the time to either caulk or tape up the gap between the cabinet and the floor pan.

Yep real close to the top of it. I was planning on seeing if I could use the split foam that is used to insulate water pipes. Should make a good seal.:)

[Wes Grass]

Adjustments at the back are probably to align the blade when it's heeled over. Imagine you have it all dead straight to the table with the blade at 90°. And imagine the front bearing is a bunch lower than the rear. So as you angle the blade it will point 'down' at the front, binding the cut.

You'll have to check the blade alignment to the miter slot at 45 after getting it perfect at 90. And adjust accordingly. And I think it'll be more or less a trial and error (within reason) process to get it right.

A good start would be to get both trunnions the same distance from the table ... which is probably all but impossible to directly measure.

[James Combs]

Adjustments at the back are probably to align the blade when it's heeled over. Imagine you have it all dead straight to the table with the blade at 90°. And imagine the front bearing is a bunch lower than the rear. So as you angle the blade it will point 'down' at the front, binding the cut.

You'll have to check the blade alignment to the miter slot at 45 after getting it perfect at 90. And adjust accordingly. And I think it'll be more or less a trial and error (within reason) process to get it right.

A good start would be to get both trunnions the same distance from the table ... which is probably all but impossible to directly measure.

Good point, I should have thought of that my self. I am sure it is going to take lots of trial and a lot more error to get it "factory set" outside the factory:o. I am sure they have fixtures and gauges that pretty much gets everything in the ball park. I check to see if Grizzly had a tech manual for the saw but no luck although tech support has been very helpful otherwise.

Addendum to "Parts Receipt +1 Day"
UPS finally showed up with the touch-up paint so I took off to the shop and smeared some of it on the scuffed places. Now I can continue with the reassembly process. I got a 20% off Any ONE Item from Woodcraft today so I will be running over there first thing in the morning and picking up a HTC-2000 mobile base unit.

[Mark Lincoln]

WoW, that is a fast time line.

You post on here on 3/17 of the flying machine.
Then 3/18 Shiraz weighs in to help out.
On 3/22 you already have the parts.

Now if I could just get my switch that they don't have in stock that fast.

[James Combs]

WoW, that is a fast time line.

You post on here on 3/17 of the flying machine.
Then 3/18 Shiraz weighs in to help out.
On 3/22 you already have the parts.

Now if I could just get my switch that they don't have in stock that fast.

It may seem fast to you but I keep running into little irritating snags that slow everything down. For example:

Today was more or less a bust. The paint didn't get dry from yesterdays touch-up.:( By the time this evening rolled around and we got home from church services it was almost dry. I expect I will be able to get back to work on it tomorrow.

However, today I did manage to get to Woodcraft and pickup a mobile base. I wanted the HTC-2000 but they did not have any in stock so I ended up with the one everyone complains about the bolts striping the threads out of the stringer bars. It is the Shop Fox 600lb cap unit. Knowing this problem I stopped and picked up some 1/8" thick steel tubing to make my own stringer bars. I got the bars finished and painted black. They will be ready to assemble tomorrow. I will post some photos of the mod tomorrow night. In case your wondering I had to have the base today so that I could continue rebuilding the saw. I have added about all the weight to it that I dare and still be able to manually get it on the base.:eek: It is getting heavy real quick. Due to other items in the way I can't assembly it in its final location and if I assemble it without the mobile base I won't be able to move it to its the final location. That's the only reason for the base. It may not move again for years.:D

Not really much of an accomplishment for Day 2.:(

[Joe Shinall]

Just remember what happened last time you had 4 wheels under that thing...:D

[Kevin Gregoire]

i didnt see if you said if your insurance covered the parts or if grizzly felt bad about your story and donated some stuff or did you have to do it all out of your own pocket?

[Jim O'Dell]

Kevin, it was probably on the flying saw thread Shiraz came on and stepped up to the pump and supplied the parts. No one, including James expected, that. It was a great gesture on his part. Jim.

[Neil Brooks]

just remember what happened last time you had 4 wheels under that thing...:d

lol!!!

BTW: One of the new mags tested a heap of cabinet saws. While the rest still took a back seat to Ye Olde Unisaw and the young upstart SawStop ... the Grizzly acquitted itself QUITE well, and would still be MY #1 choice if and when I can no longer fend off the cabinet saw bug :)

[Eric Gustafson]

lol!!!

BTW: One of the new mags tested a heap of cabinet saws.

I did not see that review. Can you tell us which magazine had it?

[Jim O'Dell]

Eric beat me to it. I'd be interested in seeing it also. Jim.

[James Gillespie, Jr.]

The reviews are in the latest issue of WOOD.

[Neil Brooks]

The reviews are in the latest issue of WOOD.

Yup.

Thanks, James.

May 2010, to be precise.

[Jim O'Dell]

Thanks guys! Jim.

[James Combs]

Just remember what happened last time you had 4 wheels under that thing...:D

Hard to forget:rolleyes:. Check the post following for the results.


i didnt see if you said if your insurance covered the parts or if grizzly felt bad about your story and donated some stuff or did you have to do it all out of your own pocket?

Ditto what Jim said. Definitely unexpected Shiraz action.:o


Kevin, it was probably on the flying saw thread Shiraz came on and stepped up to the pump and supplied the parts. No one, including James expected, that. It was a great gesture on his part. Jim.

Ditto:)


The reviews are in the latest issue of WOOD.

I gobbled up the whole article especially the "how to" section.:D

The next post continues the repair saga.

[James Combs]

I got a lot done today if got to smoke test the saw and cut a piece of scrap. Still got a long way to go.

Here is what got done today:

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Completed the mobile base mod. These are the new stringers I made to replace the Shop Fox ones. Painted them last night.

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Note the difference in wall thickness.

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Here is the completed mod installed.

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After the base was attached I didn't have to worry about adding weight. The arbor and riving knife assembly is the next thing to go on.

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Once they are in place I thought it might be a good idea to check them for run out. Here I am checking the face of the arbor flange. It clocked in at 0.0015" a very respectable reading.

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Here I am checking the outside edge of the flange. It checked out at 0.005 but it didn't appear to be machined as well as the face.

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I noted a machined non thread surface right next to the flange on the shaft so I checked it. The needle barely even moved. Less then half the with of the needle:D. Excellent.

(being that I am on dial-up I will save this and start a new post)

[Van Huskey]

lol!!!

BTW: One of the new mags tested a heap of cabinet saws. While the rest still took a back seat to Ye Olde Unisaw and the young upstart SawStop ... the Grizzly acquitted itself QUITE well, and would still be MY #1 choice if and when I can no longer fend off the cabinet saw bug :)


Feb 2010 WW Journal also did a cabinet saw review, the PM2000, Uni and SS PCS all ranked at the top with the PCS given a slight edge due to DC and safety and the 691 was mentioned as the most for the least but they don't really give a best buy award.

[James Combs]

The last photo above gives a good overall view of the cabinet after the paint touch-up. Photo wise it looks as good as new.:rolleyes: But of course we no better don't we.:)

Continuing on:

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I also check blade run out. I went through three different blades and was getting some weird readings. Readings with the setup shown were averaging about 0.005" but in several instances it seem to be a dip in the blade not a gradual change from lowest to highest. One blade even went low med low high med low:confused: It didn't make any sense...

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...until I happened to catch site of the clamping flange plate face. A piece of grass. Now I wonder how that could have possible gotten there.:eek: After scratching it off (it was practically embedded in the metal:rolleyes:) all three blades dropped to 0.0015 or less. Problem solved.

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If you have been following this remember yesterday I commented that I keep running into little irritating snags. Here is another. The miter gauge was still in a plastic bag in a box which if I remember correctly was stashed inside the base of the saw. When I took it out I just looked it over quickly and it seemed OK, however when I pulled it out to use it the snap locking mechanism was badly bent and the two screws hold it to the gauge were both knocked loose. I had to stop everything else and repair the miter. I was going to use it to check blade/miter track parallelism. After I got it repaired I ended up checking it a different way but the miter got fixed.

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I just seems like the little things that make this so hard. When I went to put the tilt angle indicator back on I could not get to the set screw that was in the bottom of the mounting flange (blue arrow). Partly it was due to the wall of the cabinet was convex-ed outward (probably from the crash) and it hid the set screw. I had to drill and tap a second location for the screw. For the same reason the nut on the back of the screw that holds the two pieces of the indicator together would catch at the end of the slot on the cabinet. I had to bend a slight dog leg in the mounting bracket to pull the screw away from the cabinet.

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I finally got the little stuff out of the way. At this point I felt like I had it to the point it would have been if it hadn't made the detour at the tree. I even managed to get the magnetic starter attached. (after this photo)

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Since I had it wired I thought I would go ahead and give it the smoke test. That passed so I decide to to try the nickle test, even two nickles:D Talk about elation. Short lived as it was.:(

(time to save this again)

[James Combs]

I don't recall what I wanted to show in the last photo above:confused: Must be an age thing:D.

To Continue with +3 days:

As I indicated above, my elation was short lived.

146301
I thought I was smelling something that smelled like burned rubber. I had been running for about 5 minutes at this point. Had even sawn a piece of scrap wood. I shut the saw down and checked inside. I couldn't see any of the saw dust for all the fuzz that was coming off of the drive belts.:( So I pulled the top off again (about the 40 eleventh time) to see what was going on. There was nothing obvious. Except for all of the belt fuzz ever thing looked OK. I restarted the motor and watched the belts.

When I did the nickle test and even though it passed I was aware of what seemed to me to be a lot of vibration but since the nickle passed I didn't think much of it. Watching those belts showed me exactly what the vibration was. The belts were taking turns whipping back and forth like guitar strings. They would vibrate then stop then start again. When they were vibrating they caused the vibration that I had noticed earlier. One especially was bad. I decided to take it off and tried it with two belts. much better but there is still some vibration with the two remaining belts.:confused:. When I took the one off I also check all the pulleys to make sure there wasn't a nick or bent flange or something else wrong that I missed in the initial inspection, nada.:confused: I am still not sure what was/is wrong but I can conjecture that the belts got severely stretched during the crash, to the point of maybe breaking their internal webbing/cords. At any rate I will be replacing all the belts as soon as possible. I mentioned in another post that the shipping strap was connected to the motor and the top edge of the cabinet. The crash impact caused the motor to pull on the shipping strap and put the one inch bend in the top of the cabinet. If it did that I am sure it must have stressed the belts at the same time.

146300
This is the belt I took off. Check out the uneven wear at 3:00 and 10/11:00. There are bare threads showing at these locations yet there is still the normal belt skin in the other areas. The belts were not only vibrating back and forth with in the plane of their orbit but they also appeared to be wobbling side to side perpendicular to their orbits especially when they were coming to a stop. The slower speed made it easier to see.

That brings the repairs up to the moment. I should have a new installment tomorrow. BTW this by no means covers everything that had to be done. For example those forty eleven removals of the (heavy:eek:) saw top were each for an adjustment or alignment or trial this or trial that.

[James Combs]

The flying Grizzly is finally back together and running.:D Still have the belt issue (still running on the two) but should receive new belts early next week. The only thing left to do besides the belts is to lower my out-feed table to match Griz's height and to hook up the dust collection hose... oh and put a longer power cord on it then its back to making saw dust:D

One final BIG thanks to Shiraz and that should do it for this thread.

Comments are welcome of course.:)

[Bruce Page]

Sweet!
It looks a lot better than the last time I saw it! :rolleyes:

[Jim O'Dell]

Great job James! It looks great. You know more about your saw than most of us ever will. Still sorry for the way that education had to come about. And kudos again to Shiraz for going beyond the call of duty to a fellow woodworker and customer. Jim.

[Myk Rian]

I really don't think comments are needed. You've learned about your saw intimately, and everyone has learned something from this. Good job.

[James Combs]

I replaced the belts, a really tough job, belts almost seem too short, anyway once I got them on and tried out the saw everything ran smooth as silk. I actually think a dime would stay standing if I could get it to stand in the first place.:rolleyes: Definitely no trouble with nickles;) I made some final blade alignments and now she is running good as new.

[Jim O'Dell]

Excellent! Good to hear. Don't know how hard it is to change the belts, but it is definitely a pain to keep tension on them and tighten the bolt back! Need three hands and another access panel.:D Jim.

[Josh Bowman]

I replaced the belts, a really tough job, belts almost seem too short, anyway once I got them on and tried out the saw everything ran smooth as silk. I actually think a dime would stay standing if I could get it to stand in the first place.:rolleyes: Definitely no trouble with nickles;) I made some final blade alignments and now she is running good as new.
James,
Can I assume you may be going into the Grizzly table saw repair business?:cool:
Seriously, you for sure now know your saw and can obviously find and repair any problems.

[Joe Shinall]

Congratulations James. Glad you get to enjoy it now. Makes it all the more sweeter I bet.

[James Combs]

QUOTE=Jim O'Dell;1393067]Excellent! Good to hear. Don't know how hard it is to change the belts, but it is definitely a pain to keep tension on them and tighten the bolt back! Need three hands and another access panel.:D Jim.[/QUOTE]

Jim, my third hand was a ratchet style cargo strap, you know those three to a pack Walmart specials. I put a long 3/8" bolt in the cabinet shipping strap hole with nuts on both sides leaving most of the bolt outside the cabinet to make a hanger and wrapped the cargo strap around the motor and over the 3/8" bolt. With trial and error adjustment this held the tail end of the motor up so that when I pulled down on the front of the motor the triple motor pulley tended to stay parallel to the arbor pulley putting equal tension on all three belts. Hope this makes sense:)

[Derek Gilmer]

Did you remember to clip its wings so this doesn't happen again? :D

[John Petsche]

Awesome photos, thanks for sharing. Enjoyed, looking to purchase a grizzly myself.

Johnn P.

[Bill Petersen]

Funny that this thread should be revived today. I received my new G1023RLX today and the first thing I did was tip it over on the right side. I was attempting to walk the saw with attached pallet off the base pallet when the pallet collapsed. CRASH. I immediately was thankful my toes weren't under it and then said something like, "well, that was stupid". It doesn't look like there is anything but cosmetic damage, but time will tell.

Bill

[Van Huskey]

Funny that this thread should be revived today. I received my new G1023RLX today and the first thing I did was tip it over on the right side. I was attempting to walk the saw with attached pallet off the base pallet when the pallet collapsed. CRASH. I immediately was thankful my toes weren't under it and then said something like, "well, that was stupid". It doesn't look like there is anything but cosmetic damage, but time will tell.

Bill

I came within a hare's breath of flipping a 700lb bandsaw on it's side today, even worse is that it could have started a domino effect dropping three bandsaws for the stupidity of one. It is a painful few seconds when machines and gravity conspire against you, first it is do I have all my parts then the oh poo will it ever run again!