Tablesaw safety and guards

[Ben West]

The recent lawsuit has caused me to wonder about the accident statistics for tablesaws with versus without factory guards in place.

I don't know the details, but I'm willing to bet that the woodworker who recently won the lawsuit for injury had removed the guard and splitter from the tablesaw. Though that makes me question the validity of the lawsuit, it makes me wonder: have any of you ever heard of a tablesaw accident with significant injury with the proper guards in place?

Just thinking about safety on my PM2000, it seems it would be an extremely freak accident for me to cut myself as long as I keep the guards in place.

[David DeCristoforo]

"I don't know the details, but I'm willing to bet that the woodworker who recently won the lawsuit for injury had removed the guard and splitter from the tablesaw."

I'm thinking that this would not be an acceptable statement in court. But for the lack of anything better to do right now, I would point out that the argument is based on the fact that most "standard" blade guarding systems are designed in such a manner that in many instances, they obstruct rather than enhance the safe use of the saw and in many cases make it impossible to perform operations that are common on the table saw. Therefore, the "standard" blade guard is inadequate, provided as a sop to the legal requirements and done as cheaply as possible.

[Nathan Callender]

How do you do dados on your table saw with a splitter/guard? There are just some cuts that can't be done with them on. Plus, the guards on most jobsite saws probably cause more injuries than save, or at least are so worthless and wobbly that you might not want them on to begin with.

[Alan Bienlein]

have any of you ever heard of a tablesaw accident with significant injury with the proper guards in place?

Just thinking about safety on my PM2000, it seems it would be an extremely freak accident for me to cut myself as long as I keep the guards in place.

YES! Cabinet shop I worked in in Baltimore a coworker was ripping 1-1/2" pieces of laminate and on the last rip with the factory gaurd in place cut off half his left thumb and part of 2 fingers. I found the pieces and sent them with another person right behind them but the doctor would not reattach them. Said there was to much damage.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Therefore, the "standard" blade guard is inadequate, provided as a sop to the legal requirements and done as cheaply as possible.


It's nice to see Powermatic, at least, trying to make some improvements in this area. The guard on the PM2000 looks like something I might actually use. Every other one is, of course, junk.

[Jim Terrill]

I have the microjig pro splitter, a lot of what I like to do is small stuff like jewelry boxes and I just can't safely get my fingers in around the guards. So I added other tools to replace those safety mechanisms, such as grr-rippers, ZCIs, lots of fingerboards, lots of push sticks, the board mates rollers, etc. If I was working with larger stock where I could work safely with the guards in, I'd use them, but at this point the work like like to do necessitates removing them, it's all about what safety devices you replace them with.

[Van Huskey]

It's nice to see Powermatic, at least, trying to make some improvements in this area. The guard on the PM2000 looks like something I might actually use. Every other one is, of course, junk.


Although the PM2000 guard is indeed one of the better ones, I dumped mine for a overhead gaurd with excellent dust collection. I have always liked overhead guards and use them more often than I ever would a "standard" attached guard.

[mreza Salav]

Although the PM2000 guard is indeed one of the better ones, I dumped mine for a overhead gaurd with excellent dust collection. I have always liked overhead guards and use them more often than I ever would a "standard" attached guard.

I agree. The combination of an overhead guard and a riving knife is something I use on my saw and I can use on almost ALL cuts (including non-through cuts). The only time I have to remove the guard is if I'm doing a piece vertically, for like a tenon jig or similar.

[Ben West]

Good points about the fact that many factory guards are nearly worthless. And, you're all right that several operations can't be performed with a factory guard (but most can with an overhead).

Some of it is habit too, though. My dad (who has had 2 minor tablesaw accidents, removing a grand total of 1/8 inch of his index finger) despises guards and refuses to use them...even a "good" one like the Powermatic. He claims they "cause more problems than they solve." I, however, have never known anything different, and have no problems working with the Powermatic guard.

As much as I love this hobby, it's not worth a life-altering injury to me. I'm always thinking about ways to be safer.

[Brian Kent]

I would like a great blade guard. I do not use the stock guard. I always use a splitter, zero clearance insert, and push sticks.

Until I find the right one, I would think that the board buddies on front and back of the blade would actually serve as a partial blade guard.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

After 20 years of using my delta contractor's saw without the delta guard, I recently upgraded to a used unisaw and added an exaktor sliding table and an overarm Brett guard. I find myself using the guard all the time--I expect I'll find a few occasions when I can't-- but between the guard and the sliding table
I really feel safer and the dust collection is so much better. I suspect most of us are probably more likely to suffer a life altering experience from dust than from a blade accident . Nevertheless, I like the Brett guard, if I had to teach kids, it's the guard I would get.

Be safe-- lots of sharp objects out there.

[Tom Hintz]

I also have the PM2000 and use the factory guard nearly all of the time, except when cutting dados and then I always use rubber-soled push blocks to help keep me separated from the cutter if something should happen to the wood. I know its not perfect but the PM2000 guard system goes a long way to making it way easier to use.
An overarm guard wopuld be nice but I am constantly moving my table saw so that just isn't in the cards for me.

[Rod Sheridan]

An overarm guard wopuld be nice but I am constantly moving my table saw so that just isn't in the cards for me.

Hi Tom. I've included a poor photo of an Excalibur overarm guard on my previous saw. It's on a mobile base, as I have a small shop and the saw needs to be moved away for storage.

Regards, Rod.

[Tom Welch]

[I'm thinking that this would not be an acceptable statement in court. But for the lack of anything better to do right now, I would point out that the argument is based on the fact that most "standard" blade guarding systems are designed in such a manner that in many instances, they obstruct rather than enhance the safe use of the saw and in many cases make it impossible to perform operations that are common on the table saw. Therefore, the "standard" blade guard is inadequate, provided as a sop to the legal requirements and done as cheaply as possible.]

Plus one for what David said.

Tom

[Chris Kennedy]

I have an Excalibur, and it is so superior to the stock guard, it isn't even funny. One of the first times I used the saw with the stock guard, the miter gauge pushed the guard into the blade -- not a good design. I recently put in a MicroJig Splitter as well. Those two, featherboards when necessary, and push shoes when necessary.

Cheers,

Chris

[Rob Holcomb]

I don't use a guard. Just the riving knife. I know that's not the safest thing to do but until I have spare cash to buy a real guard, that's what I'm stuck with. The stock guard that came with my saw is useless! For the life of me, I don't know why a saw that was $1,300 comes with a piece of crap guard. Why bother!

[George Sanders]

My old Craftsman contractor saw probably had a guard when it was sold, but it probably parted company with the saw fifty years ago. Very few of my machines even have belt guards on them. I don't wear loose clothing and I am downright paranoid about where I put my hands. I use push sticks and feather boards whenever I can. One must always engage their brain before turning on a machine.

[Jeff Mackay]

I saw a related blog entry on finewoodworking.com New Study Discusses Tablesaw Injuries (http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/24638/new-study-discusses-tablesaw-injuries). Several responses were from people who had accidents. IIRC the three major causes of accidents were: inattention, fatigue, and kickbacks. I suspect that few of those who had serious accidents were using any type of splitter or blade guard. Would the blade guard have helped them? Maybe, but your guess is as good as mine.

But I suspect that's not the point of the suit. The suit, like the thousands that will follow, is about blade brakes. Manufacturers know the technology exists but they haven't adopted it.

[Nathan Callender]

One other thing I would add about guards is that the ones that can move up and down (like many stock guards on top of splitters) are not going to protect you from putting your hand through a blade. If you are pushing a piece through (say plywood for example) and you don't realize your hand is in the way, the guard is just going to lift over your hand and if you are feeding at a reasonable rate, it may be too late before you realize.

The overarm guards do look really nice and I think that since they can lock to a certain height, they would actually provide much more safety.

[David DeCristoforo]

One point I would like to make is that a riving knife will provide much better defense against kickbacks than any guard I have seen. Since the riving knife is protecting the "back" of the blade and to some extent, the top, it's much less likely that a piece of wood can contact the blade in those areas which is one of the primary causes of kickbacks. Also, the riving knife makes it much less likely that a piece of material that is moving as internal stress is relieved during cutting will bind against the blade which is another primary cause of kickbacks.

PS It is really impressive that this thread has not deteriorated into a contentious argument that would prompt the mods to lock and delete it. I'm sure they are watching it closely.

[Ben West]

David...I guess I didn't really even think about this thread becoming contentious. I'm genuinely interested in the risk of operating a tablesaw that is equipped with a "good" guard and riving knife.

I probably know 6 or 7 people that have had some tablesaw accident (most minor, thank goodness), and every instance was on a saw that had had the guard and splitter (none were equipped with a riving knife) removed. I was just curious if anyone knew of accidents with the guards in place. Sounds like it has happened, but it's rare.

[Nathan Callender]

Ben - I can tell you of my first and only almost accident on the table saw. I just got my new saw, installed the splitter/guard and aligned it properly, installed the blade that came with, and ran a piece of pine through. It took a bunch of force, but I didn't realize it was a problem - I just thought that is how the saw cut. A little later, I tried ripping a piece of hard maple, and the wood binded (bound?) half way through the cut with all sorts of burning and me pushing REALLY hard. I got the saw turned off, and looked all over. It was binding on the splitter. I tried realigning, and everything I could think of and had all sorts of problems. I finally ordered a set of calipers - and yes, the splitter turned out to be wider than the kerf of the blade sent with the saw - my splitter only will handle the wider of the thin kerf blades. That episode alone could have been a disaster.

This is the type of situation that will make most people yank off a safety device and throw it in the trash. So, when I hear people say things like accidents only happen when safety guards/splitters aren't installed, at least for a lot of table saws, the design of the cheap devices plays a large part in that. I guess it's a sad situation when the operation is SAFER without the guard installed!

That being said, the difference in materials and technology to make a great splitter/guard vs a pathetic one just doesn't seem like a lot at all.

[Sean Nagle]

Ben - I can tell you of my first and only almost accident on the table saw. I just got my new saw, installed the splitter/guard and aligned it properly, installed the blade that came with, and ran a piece of pine through. It took a bunch of force, but I didn't realize it was a problem - I just thought that is how the saw cut. A little later, I tried ripping a piece of hard maple, and the wood binded (bound?) half way through the cut with all sorts of burning and me pushing REALLY hard. I got the saw turned off, and looked all over. It was binding on the splitter. I tried realigning, and everything I could think of and had all sorts of problems. I finally ordered a set of calipers - and yes, the splitter turned out to be wider than the kerf of the blade sent with the saw - my splitter only will handle the wider of the thin kerf blades. That episode alone could have been a disaster.

Unless you've had the opportunity to work in another shop and get instruction from experienced woodworkers, most people are pretty much on their own to "learn" the proper setup, tuning and use of a very dangerous tool. There isn't an equivalent to "Hunter's Safety Courses" for woodworking tools.

Also, a typical tablesaw comes incomplete. I can't speak for all manufacturers since I have experience only with Delta and a friend's Powermatic, but do all manufacturers include basic safety devices such as pushsticks and featherboards? Crafting these is usually left as an exercise to the purchaser, or they should be knowledgeable enough to purchase these as accessories before firing up the saw. Nathan's experience also brings up the fact that there are critical measurement tools required to properly setup the machine which are not included in the crate.

When someone takes up the craft of woodworking, they should go in with eyes wide open. There are inherent dangers and requirements to pursue the craft. You don't simply become a wood butcher, you become a mechanic, a chemist, a designer, an engineer, a machinist, a wood scientist and so many more disciplines.

Enough ranting. Bottom line, if you are easily frightened, woodworking isn't your cup of tea.

[Greg Pavlov]

I don't use a guard. Just the riving knife. I know that's not the safest thing to do but until I have spare cash to buy a real guard, that's what I'm stuck with. The stock guard that came with my saw is useless! For the life of me, I don't know why a saw that was $1,300 comes with a piece of crap guard. Why bother!
Because until Glass tackled this issue, manufacturers could blow it off: it was a matter of "this is the way it's always been, tools are dangerous and that's life." And woodworkers had no choice other than to not use a table saw, if they didn't agree (most did, and clearly a heck of a lot still do).

[Brian Kent]

Assume I am preparing for the safest possible guard without wasting extra money.

I am concerned about:

1) If I use a guard that attaches from the side, how can I keep it out of the way of wide pieces?

2) What is the best path from the dust collector to the overhead as well as to the side dust port? I can't figure out how to get that lower dust port covered without lying the air pipes on the floor where I might stumble of them.

3) Should I drop the air duct from the ceiling to a guard that also drops from the ceiling?

[Rod Sheridan]

Assume I am preparing for the safest possible guard without wasting extra money.

I am concerned about:

1) If I use a guard that attaches from the side, how can I keep it out of the way of wide pieces?

2) What is the best path from the dust collector to the overhead as well as to the side dust port? I can't figure out how to get that lower dust port covered without lying the air pipes on the floor where I might stumble of them.

3) Should I drop the air duct from the ceiling to a guard that also drops from the ceiling?

Hi Brian,

1) I had an Excalibur guard which attached to the table at the right side, near the rear of the table. Obviously anything that can be ripped will clear the guard mount, and anything that's crosscut up to the rip capacity of your saw plus a few inches will clear the guard mount.

If you need wider clearances go with the Excalibur ceiling mount.

2) My overhead guard connected to a ceiling duct with 3" hose, the saw (General 650) connected with a 4" hose at floor level on the left side of the saw.

Regards, Rod.