Really Basic Chisel Questions

[Tom LaRussa]

Okay, here I go showing my ignorance -- yet again -- but I just have to ask:

Butt chisel vs bevel edge chisel -- how are they defined and what's the difference?

Mortise chisel vs sash(?) chisel -- again, how are they defined and what's the difference?

TIA,

Tom

[Charles McKinley]

Thank you Bob!

[Bob Smalser]

Okay, here I go yet again -- but I just have to ask:

Butt chisel vs. bevel edge chisel -- how are they defined and what's the difference?

Mortise chisel vs. sash (?) chisel -- again, how are they defined and what's the difference?


That’s OK…some of it still confuses me these days as there is some overlap between types. This is just my take on it as terminology by trade and era varies a bit:

Bevel edge doesn't mean much per se, as even some firmer and framing chisels have them....it merely allows getting into a tighter corner. Neither does socket or tang handles, although the larger chisels are generally socket chisels, as are many high-grade chisels, as sockets are considered a better design as handles are easier to replace, but cost significantly more to manufacture. To call a chisel a “socket” chisel with no other descriptor is a common mistake today, often by people who should know better.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/5090019/64890070.jpg

Butt Chisel: Any short chisel, usually with bevel edge and design suitable for paring and striking with 30-degree bevels. A finish carpenter's chisel easy to store with a major role in hanging doors and all around trimming. Usually tang handles.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/5090019/72454914.jpg

Bench Chisel: Longer chisel for workbench use. Paring and light chopping, usually with 30-degree bevels and beveled edges.

http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/ProductImages/chisels/122351.jpg

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/5090019/72454940.jpg

Paring Chisel: Long, thinner chisels not designed for any striking, only paring with 20-25 degree bevels. Some have "cranked" handles for clearance and were primarily used by pattern makers making negative patterns in soft pine. Others are skew cut to reach into corners, and a “dovetail” chisel is diamond-shaped to clean female sliding dovetail sockets. Usually with tang handles.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4959362/63036333.jpg

Firmer Chisel: Usually the same length as bench chisels but of thicker, heavier steel, usually straight sided. For paring and striking with 30-degree bevels. Usually with socket handles.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4775424/60398418.jpg

Framing Chisel: Larger, longer chisels usually an inch or larger wide. Some were designed for paring with beveled edges and 20-25 degree bevels and some for striking with square edges and 30-degree bevels. Usually with hooped, socket handles.

http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/ProductImages/chisels/041710.jpg

Corner Chisel: A framer forged into a 90-degree angle to clean out corners. Generally 30-degree bevels. Usually with hooped, socket handles.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/5090019/72455620.jpg

English “Pigsticker” Mortice Chisel: Ward and others. A short, stubby, fit-in-the-tool-chest, tang-handled mortise chisel with unhooped handle designed for striking. All mortise chisels are generally straight sided…some have some taper for ease in popping out chips. All with 35-40 degree bevels.

Continued…

[Bob Smalser]

http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/ProductImages/chisels/041725.jpg

Sash Mortise Chisel: Medium length mortise chisel for bench use, generally with unhooped handles. “Sash” comes from window factories, and there is some confusion describing medium length and long length mortise chisels as factories generally used the longer chisels but the medium ones are often called “sash” chisels.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/5305809/67802788.jpg

Millwright or Factory Mortise Chisel: Very long, very heavy mortise chisel designed for heavy striking with heavy, hooped handles. Many were 16” long and often made by manufacturers who specialized in large chisels. Always with hooped, socket handles.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3302197/42016002.jpg

Slick: A large, very heavy 2-4” framing chisel with long handle up to 24” designed for paring large timbers with 20-25 degree bevels. Never struck. Always with socket handles. These and framing chisels are dangerous and should have protective edge covers made. The last large shipyard my father worked in required slicks to be glued to their handles with hot melt Bakelite, as a chisel loose from its handle was lethal to anyone below.

Pictures other than mine are from Harry Miller and Highland Hardware.

[Steve Cox]

Great post Bob! Thanks for clarification of some points for me especially the bevel angles. I'm a little suprised by the bakelite and slicks. I've always seen slicks with removable handles so they will fit into a tool chest. Where did your dad work?

[Bob Smalser]

Philadelphia Naval Shipyard....1940 to 1955 or so.

Coulda been just a story, too...to keep a 12-year-old from having it fall on a foot when trying it out. But it also serves a safety purpose today.

There's no shortage of guys I know today with scars from having one fall on them from above after somebody took a pass with one and the handle popped loose.

[Steve Cox]

Yeah, one of my instructors tells of one where a guy was working above him and the slick came loose from the handle, fell blade down, sliced the back of his coveralls but didn't cut him. He still shudders when talking about it.

[Tom LaRussa]

WOW!

:) Thanks Bob! :)

I think I get it now. Or at least I understand why it's hard to understand.

It's the old apples, oranges, and cherries type of thing:
Some terms used to describe chisels relate to their physical characteristics, some relate to their main use(s), some relate to who uses them, etc. Plus there is the whole hooped vs non-hooped vs socket question.

The real confusion lies in the fact that multiple designations can apply to a given chisel, but folks don't bother to explain what type of designation they are talking about.

So, to (attempt to) sum up/paraphrase -- in hopes of imprinting this stuff into the old grey matter:

Bevel vs non-Bevel Designations

Bevels make it easier to get into tight spots;
Square-sided makes for more strength for heavy pounding
As chisel types get bigger, they are less likely to have bevels
Length-related Designations

Butt = short
Bench = longer
Firmer = same length as bench, only thicker
Mortise Chisels (two types)

Sash = longer than Bench or Firmer
Millright or Factory = longest of all
Non-Striking Designations

Paring, Skew, Cranked, Dovetail
Slick
Special Purpose Designations

Framing = real big suckers
Pig Sticker = chisel on-the-go
Corner = duh
Non-Hoop vs Hoop vs Socket

Non-hoop = don't hit the thing
Hoop = okay to hit, but not too hard
Socket = whale away


And like that sort of thing.

Am I getting it? :D

[Bob Smalser]

The real confusion lies in the fact that multiple designations can apply to a given chisel, but folks don't bother to explain what type of designation they are talking about...Mortise Chisels (two types)...Non-Striking Designations...
Hoop = okay to hit, but not too hard
Socket = whale away

Am I getting it? :D

Yeah....you are getting it.

'Cept there are more mortise chisels....in addition to the three I listed, the German designs are hooped and tanged and you can whale the dickens out of them, as you can the English Pigstickers.

And it's anything with a 20-25 degree bevel you can't whack....including many framing chisels, usually ones with beveled sides.

And the way to buy these things cheap is to know that few sellers have a clue what they are selling....if you go through all the Ebay or auction catalog chisel listings and scan for a title/picture mismatch that tells you the seller is another dog watching television, then go through all his listings in detail for some bargains.

From my observations, anything marked "Stanley", "Witherby", "Winchester", "Chas Buck" or "White" is going to a collector for too high a price....along with some Swan's. Greenlee, older (not newer) Buck, New Haven Edge, Ohio Tool, DR Barton, Union Hardware, GI Mix, Shapleigh Hardware, Erik Antonberg, Swedish "fish" brand, Dickerson, Gillespie, Dixon, PS&W or PEXTO, Robt Duke, Lakeside and several other old makers are as good as the collector prizes and cheaper than buying 01 steel to make your own. Most unmarked chisels of that era were usually made by one of the above makers and are also generally excellent.

The only lousy socket chisels I've observed buying large lots are newer Craftsman (older socket Craftsman were made by Greenlee) of too-thick, modern gummy, shiny chrome-vandalium steel...and some "Eclipse" brand and Stanley Defiance that won't take an edge.

[James Carmichael]

LOL at the "pigsticker". The blade profile of a mortising chisel has somewhat of an evil look to it that has always reminded me of a Civil-war (or earlier) bayonet.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Another brand of old chisels and other edge tools to add to your high quality list is Underhill. The Underhill Edge Tool company was founded in Chester NH (my home town) and continued in business in Auburn NH and later Manchester and Nashua before being swallowed up by the American Tool Company around 1900. Half of the shipwrights chisels in my family chest are Underhills and they are of uniformly good steel. Unfortunately they are mostly larger firmers, mortisers, and industrial sized paring chisels. Not surprising though considering the fact that my predecessors were shipwrights. Underhill also produced shovels, wonderful axes, and a whole selection of other edge tools.