Do you think a more powerful tablesaw is "safer?"

[Victor Robinson]

Simple question.

Are kickbacks worse on a more powerful saw?

Is the chance of kickback higher on a saw with a less powerful motor that may strain depending on the stock being pushed through?

[Mitchell Andrus]

Simple question.

Are kickbacks worse on a more powerful saw?

Is the chance of kickback higher on a saw with a less powerful motor that may strain depending on the stock being pushed through?

I'm inclined to think the weaker or slower the blade, the less forceful the kickback - but - I don't think the power getting to the blade has much to do with the cause of the kickback.

Depending on what you mean by worse, yes kinda. There are complicated physics involved that 100 posts won't illustrate. I will say this though... don't buy an underpowered saw simply because it might be 'safer'. Assume they are all dangerous.
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[Brian Kent]

Sort of yes. But maybe not directly.

When I had an $89 Ryobi plastic saw, I had a couple of kickbacks when the whole thing flexed. I got one in the gut and one on my knuckles. The motor would also stall, but the kickbacks had to do with parts being held in place by flex plastic.

Since I got my Grizzly table saw, the motor has never stalled, but the real issue is iron, steel, & massive trunions. No motor flexing with reference to the fence. Everything is solid. No kickbacks with proper procedures like zero clearance insert and a splitter.

Solid is our friend.

[David DeCristoforo]

It's almost a moot point. Even a 1HP machine can generate enough force to knock you on your ass. Try having a tug of war with "just one horse". Once you are face down in the mud, it really does not matter how hard the blow was that put you there.

[Paul Ryan]

It's almost a moot point. Even a 1HP machine can generate enough force to knock you on your ass. Try having a tug of war with "just one horse". Once you are face down in the mud, it really does not matter how hard the blow was that put you there.


I will agree with David's comment's. Would you really want to wrestle 1 hp. But I had a bench top saw that didn't have a splitter or guard. And I occasionally had the kerf close up and pinch the blade and stop it with out being injured. That would be much less likely to happen with a larger belt driven saw. With a larger saw most often that senario would result in a kick back causing some sort of damage. So smaller saws can be more forgiving in that aspect but can still injure you if not respected.

[Tom Veatch]

The speed and momentum of the piece coming at you is in direct proportion to the speed of the blade that throws it at you. All tablesaws spin the blade at about the same speed. The motor only develops enough power to spin the blade at that speed, whether it be a 5HP or a 1HP motor. The kinetic energy in the piece that hits you will be roughly the same whether it's coming off a 5HP saw or a 1HP saw.

But like David said, face down in the mud, the size of the horse that kicked you is pretty immaterial.

[Cody Colston]

The HP has nothing to do with causing a kickback but lack of HP can prevent one. On my old 1.5 hp Craftsman saw, I had the blade stall more than once when making a cut, usually on sheet goods that got cocked a bit.

On a 3 hp or bigger saw, the blade won't stall. It will chunk an entire sheet of plywood.

On smaller pieces, there isn't any difference. The blade will grab and throw the stock just as fast and hard on a low HP saw as it will on a more powerful one.

I think probably 99.9% of the time, kickback is caused by poor technique, ie, the operator did something they should not have done.

[Henry Ambrose]

snipped.......

I think probably 99.9% of the time, kickback is caused by poor technique, ie, the operator did something they should not have done.


Take that statement to heart.

Little pieces come back faster, big pieces slower. A more powerful saw can throw it at you harder. Either can hurt you, but there is no reason to be afraid, just respectful. Concentrate on your technique.

[Steve Griffin]

Absolutely a more powerful saw is safer. But not because of the horsepower, but because of other factors which overshadow anything to do with power.

Smaller saws tend to have much lower quality fences which can move or constantly be in poor adjustment. A moving fence while cutting is really a bad thing, and I recently saw just that on a piddly Ace hardware saw.

Also, less powerful saws often have meager table area and are light enough that their weight is not often enough to safely hold them in one place. Portable saws often are set up on tippy bases, with no provisions for an out-feed table.

As mentioned, more important than anything is the operator. I certainly would not give horsepower the slightest weight in decisions about saw safety.

-Steve

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

On a 3 hp or bigger saw, the blade won't stall. It will chunk an entire sheet of plywood.


I've seen blades on 5HP saws stall. Just depends on what you're rying to push through it. Actually, I've seen an 18HP beam saw stall numerous times, if the blade wasn't sharp enough or the material was very hard.



I think probably 99.9% of the time, kickback is caused by poor technique, ie, the operator did something they should not have done.

I'll agree with that. In most cases, you should be able to see it before it occurs, and stop feeding and shut off the saw.

[scott spencer]

I guess I haven't had my 3hp saw long enough to experience kickback with it, but I sure did with all my other smaller saws.

It can obviously happen with either, but I will say that if I'm going to get into trouble in the middle of cut, I'd rather have a smaller saw where I stand a chance of stalling the motor to gain enough time to turn the saw off. I suspect the 3hp is far less likely to stall....probably has as much to do with the triple drive belts as HP.

[Nathan Callender]

I've been whacked by a piece of metal caught on a bit on a tiny 1/3hp drill press. That taught me two things - most power tools can really hurt you even if they are 'puny' and always clamp your work on a drill press (especially metal parts...). :-)

I don't think power has much to do with kick backs. The construction of the saw and technique are what matter.

[Chip Lindley]

Simple question.

(1) Are kickbacks worse on a more powerful saw?

(2) Is the chance of kickback higher on a saw with a less powerful motor that may strain depending on the stock being pushed through?

The original question requires some thought.

(1) ALL kickbacks are BAD!

If memory serves correctly, momentum is a product of an object's weight (mass) and speed (velocity). It would have to be hurled faster, to have more momentum. If a 1hp saw bogs down, then the resulting kickback could well be at a slower speed. But, all kickbacks happen in a split second! No Warning! I will leave any experimentation as to worse, for MythBusters!

Misalignment of the saw mechanism, or the saw fence, or warped/reactive stock contribute to kickback. Also, as mentioned, operator error is certainly a big contributor.

(2) Chance of kickback on a 3hp saw is probably far less. Not because of any horsepower factor, but because the operator is one who has probably worked his way up to a bigger cabinet saw from tabletop models or contractor saws. The operator is probably more cognisant of TS safety and uses good technique. The operator has probably taken time to align his 3hp saw well to prevent the conditions which most often cause kickback.

There are always exceptions, and any TS in the hands of an errant operator can and will be dangerous. Scary examples are a job site saw run by new, part-time help. Or, DIY homeowners and newbie woodworkers who ignorantly assume that their new TS is absolutely plug n play with no learning curve.

[Milind Patil]

I am probably going to repeat what many have already said !

A chance of a kickback on a table saw is inversly proportional to the power of the saw ! So more the power, less are chances of kickback because the saw will over power the factors that would cause a kickback, such as resistance caused by dull blade, improper feed, misalignment, etc. However, in an event wherein the saw can not overpower the resistance and if the kickback happens, rest assured that kickback will be worse ! But I also think that one really has to be a real bummer to get into such a situation ! A well aligned saw with sharp blade and anti-kickback sprawls and straight feed at proper rate should never get you in to this situation.

In general, I consider a powerful and heavier saw as safer saw. Kickback is not the only thing you need to worry about. Saw stability is far more important, espacially when working with large stock. A heavy saw is very stable and put less physical stress on you while handling stock.

[Alan Bienlein]

Simple question.

Are kickbacks worse on a more powerful saw?

Is the chance of kickback higher on a saw with a less powerful motor that may strain depending on the stock being pushed through?

I don't think a more powerful tablesaw is safer but a higher quality saw can be.

[Van Huskey]

Kickbacks will be more powerful on a higher powered saw, but on a good quality saw with more power they will occur less often.

[Peter Quinn]

I think its all hog wash. I've seen guys with crap technique "rely" on stalling the saw when things get weird as a safety mechanism, only to get knocked on their butts at a cabinet saw trying the same, because they won't quit. I've also seen small saws begin to stall, recover as the user tries to free things up and get back on trace, and thats when they kick. I've seen a 5HP saw throw a whole sheet of 3/4" ply back, never seen a small saw do that.

The TS is dangerous, any of them will cut off your finger and possibly kick you like a mule, being kicked by 5 mules at once hurts more generally speaking, which as David points out will be some small comfort when you are lying on the floor trying to pick up your teeth with your missing fingers. Working safe and smart is safer than working less safe...

[David DeCristoforo]

"...will be some small comfort when you are lying on the floor trying to pick up your teeth with your missing fingers..."

AMEN!!! BTW, FWIW, you would better spend your time looking for the fingers which might possibly be reattached than the teeth which would already represent a total loss....

[Larry Edgerton]

I think there is some difference when a piece pinches the blade. I use low hp saws on site and large saws in the shop. One thing I have noticed is that with a low hp saw you can most often not power through a angry spot in the grain that wants to pinch and once there is no more forward motion the piece wants to climb up the back of the blade and grab traction, then becoming a projectile. It still happens in the shop with the high HP saws, but the percentage of wood that is strong enough to overcome the HP becomes less.

So..... Although I agree with those that say all saws are dangerous, I would say that hp is your friend in most cases.

When you look at the pieces kicked back, most will have teeth marks spaced equal to what the blade being used has by the time it comes off of the blade, irrespective of the hp of the saw. That means the stuff is coming at you at approx. 110 mph., so it is going to hurt if you are in the way. It also means that you are not fast enough to get out of the way if you have your hands on the wrong side of the blade. At least I am not that quick. I am self taught, and unfortunately it is a lesson that I learned the hard way and so am missing a finger.

Either one will bite you but I would not be afraid of higher hp saws any more or less than low HP.

[Peter Aeschliman]

I think higher powered saws are safer for another reason.

I just sold my contractor saw and bought a 3hp sawstop. On my 1.5HP contractor saw, when I cut through 8/4 hardwood, the motor would bog down and I'd have to push harder to get the stock through the blade. Having to push harder increases the chance that your pushstick could slip and your hand could fall into the blade. The SS doesn't bog down at all when cutting through 8/4 and I don't have to exert extra pressure to get the workpiece through the blade...

Just a thought.