Three options on jointer/planer combo

[Charles Goodwin]

I've come to the realization that I'm not just tinkering around with woodworking anymore, so need to upgrade to serious tools. So if I'm in, I say go all the way and get the best you can afford. For space reasons, I'm interested in a j/p combo machine. I've collected lots of good information from smc, and am down to the following:

1. Jet JJP-12hh for $2,750 (adding a Wixey DRO)

2. Hammer A3-31 for $3,500 (adding the digital handwheel and carbide blades)

3. Go without a jointer and buy a used Powermatic 15hh planer with the Byrd Shelix cutterhead for $2,000 (haven't seen it, but the seller says he bought it 6 months ago and has only used it once).

I assume that the cut quality for the Hammer, which has standard blades but by reputation is a higher-end product, is about the same as the Jet with helical blades. Aside from the price difference, the Jet would be quieter, which matters to me given that I'm working in a residential area.

On the Powermatic, I appreciate a good deal and was tempted enough to call and talk to the seller. The problem is that I would need to acquire a separate jointer, and more problematically find a place to put it. Just on principle, I asked if he'd take less than the $2,000 and he said no.

So which door would you choose?

Charles

[Mike Archambeau]

You can pick up a grizzly 8 inch jointer with parralleogram beds for about 1000 dollars. And could pick up a grizzly 15 inch planer for about 1000 dollars. Makes the 2000 thousand dollar powermatic planner look expensive. You could spend a little more and get helical heads for the grizzly equipment. Just a thought worth considering.

[Jamie Buxton]

You can buy carbide knives for the A3-31? I can't find them on the web site. What's the price?

[Chris Padilla]

Having a 16" J/P myself (Minimax FS41-Elite--410 mm which is a tad larger than 16"), I find it quite nice having a matching jointer and planer. If you deal with any kind of rough wood, you need both and you may miss having a jointer...especially one that is the same size as your planer.

[Paul McGaha]

Charles,

I have a Powermatic 15HH Planer and a Powermatic 882 Jointer. They are both good machines and I expect to keep them a long time.

If i had to do it again though I think I would probably buy something like the Hammer A-31. From what I hear the quality is better, the price is less compared to what I spent on the Powermatics, and the footprint in the shop is about half. My shop is a 2 car garage and every foot matters.

Good luck with your decision.

PHM

[Alex Silva]

I have the A3-31 in a residential area and yes it's loud.. less than my old Dewalt DW735.. don't miss the opportunity to have a 12'' jointer..

The cut with A3-31 with stock blades is EXCELLENT.. and cobalt blades are very cheap.. in fact cheaper than Dewalt crappy blades...

Now install 4 greatlakecasters on your A3-31 and your 4 yo kid will be able to slide your machine..

Now compare the picture of the A3-31 and the equivalent by Grizzly.. it may look the same, but look at all the details, the added iron.. the fit and finish is excellent and the digital gauge ROCKS

Cheers

Alex

[Charles Goodwin]

The space considerations, and the usefulness of a wider jointing table than the usual 6 or 8 inches, are definitely pushing me to the combo machines. So, really, it's down to the Jet (with a helical head and $750 less) or the Hammer (no helical but by all accounts a first-class machine).

I was leaning toward the Jet, but so far no takers on it, at least in this thread.

I know that Grizzly makes a j/p combo, but you don't seem to hear as much about it.

Charles

[Charles Goodwin]

Jamie,

I said carbide but meant cobalt on the A3-31 knives. They're listed at a little less than $65 a set, but a discount may be available this week during the Felder/Hammer spring sale. I don't know for sure -- in the quote I received from Hammer, I was offered a discount on the accessories I had asked about (including the knives), but it was provided as a single number for the whole lot (and I would be buying the A3). I found the Hammer website a bit difficult to navigate but their customer service to be very responsive -- so I'd just send an email asking about current price/availability.

Charles

[Jim Becker]

I'm also a J/P combo fan...the wide jointing capability is absolutely necessary for the ways I use the jointer as well as the wider stock I tend to work with in solid wood. Like Chris, I have a MiniMax J/P, although mine is a 350mm (~14") version. On your list, the Hammer is the better product overall and I wouldn't fret about not having a helical head...the surface off a jointer and planer is not your finished surface in the least. This tool is only used to flatten, square and dimension stock, not prepare it for finishing.

[Charles Goodwin]

Any thoughts on the Jet? The price for the Hammer is something I can afford, but at the outer edge of (maybe even a little past) my comfort zone. I'm trying to decide whether the extra $750 is really worth it.

[Doug Shepard]

...
The cut with A3-31 with stock blades is EXCELLENT.. ....

I'll second that. Only had mine since Oct/Nov so dont have much mileage on it yet. But I was surprised at the long wispy shavings I was getting from the planer when I first started trying it out with the depth adjustment fine tuning. Way longer/finer shavings than what I'm used to from benchtop planers. Dont know for sure but I suspect they may have the cutterhead and feed rollers in synch so as to get a more rotary cut slice. Haven't begun to wear out the stock knives but bought 2 sets of cobalt when I bought unit.

[Scot Ferraro]

I would opt for the Hammer -- I have one and it has run flawlessly since day one. The table castings are beefier than the Jet and Felder has been making these machines a long, long time. There are more options for the Hammer too such as the digital readout and the option to add extension tables later -- these accessories will make using the machine easier and more accurate. This is not a knock on the Jet by any means, but I think you get a higher quality machine for the difference in cost. $750 over the life of a machine is really not that much of a difference in my opinion.

Good luck,

Scot

[Rod Sheridan]

I've owned the Hammer for two years, and wouldn't hesitate to purchase it again.

Great product.

The digital height gauge for the planer is a must have accessory in my opinion.

Later you can add table extensions if you desire, Felder have the occasional sale, which is a good time to purchase accessories.

Regards, Rod.

[Mark Woodmark]

My understanding is Felder is having a sale right now. Dont know if this applies to their Hammer line. Check out the felder website. I have worked with Jason at the west Felder location. He is great to work with and seems to be very concerned that you get what you need in addition to what you want. All that said, I have the Grizzly G0660X which is a Scheppach Plana 7 with Grizzly paint.

http://www.felderusa.com/us-us/products/format-table-saws/panel-saw-k-500-professional.html

http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/16-Jointer-Planer/G0660X

http://www.scheppach.com/en/products/single-view/categories/hobelmaschinen-1/products/hobelmaschine-plana-7/backPID/produktuebersicht.html?cHash=c702baf606

If you have the space, I would get two separate machines as opposed to one combo machine. Although it doesnt take too long to change over from jointer to planer, it is somewhat of a pain just because you have to do it. Especially cranking up the planer table every time. These combo machines seem to be commonplace in Europe

[Bas Pluim]

I don't think you can go wrong with any of them. I have the JET JJP-12HH (review (http://newtoolreviews.com/?p=820)) and I've been very happy with it. For the hobbyist, it will do everything and more. I don't know of any unhappy JJP-12 users, and I know four. But if you're thinking about going semi-pro with this, the Hammer might be your better choice. It is definitely more of an industrial machine.

The JET with helical head is considerably quieter than a lunchbox planer, and the sound is less aggravating. Most of that comes from using an induction motor (no whining high pitched noise), but the carbide inserts also keep the noise down compared to knives. But given that you'll also be running a DC, it's still loud enough you should wear hearing protection.

As to the cut quality, I don't think carbide inserts deliver a superior cut compared to straight knives. The main advantage is that they deal really well with figured woods (tearout), they're very durable and really easy to replace. A machine with an indexed knife system would be very close in terms of convenience of course.

Price matters. The JET is cheaper than the Hammer. While you can never buy too much tool, you _can_ spend too much money. You may want to check if there is anyone in your area that has one of these machines, and see if you can check them out "live". This is the kind of purchase you want to make once.

Just out of curiosity, did you not consider the Grizzly J/P?

[Christopher Stahl]

If you can afford the Hammer, I would definitely buy it. One thing is for sure, you won't regret spending difference in price. I don't have one, but I've used one a couple times and it's a very, very nice machine. The digital readout is a must have.

On another note, I have a Grizzly G0643 combo with the spiral cutter head. It's also a very nice machine.

[Charles Goodwin]

Thanks for all the comments -- lots of good enablers around here.

Bas, I had previously read your review of the Jet. Thanks for taking the time to write it -- it was a great help to me.

Any idea on the noise difference between the Hammer and the Jet? I figure either one will be less noisy than a DeWalt 735 (of course, that's like being less flamboyant than Johnny Weir), but I'm curious if there's any significant nose reduction for the Jet over the Hammer because of the cutterhead.

I briefly looked at the Grizzly 12" j/p (the G0634Z), but for whatever reason there isn't as much praise for it in terms of reviews and forum posts as the Jet or the Hammer (or the MM). That's not to say that there are any bad reviews -- what I have seen is consistently favorable -- but there isn't the review, like Bas with the Jet or like you see on Grizzly's 15" planer (the G0453Z), saying this is a great machine. I'll take a closer look.

Charles

[michael craigdallie]

Last year a company opened up where i live that started selling Felder and on their open house they had one of the Felder reps over there from Austria to help out setting things up. i was interested in the A3 31 as well and was asking him a lot of questions, one of them was about putting on a helical cutterhead and his response was quite interesting. he said that the routinely sell large machines for $100,000-200,000 and none of them have helical cutter heads, and when you consider that adding $5000 to the price of a $200,000 really is nothing don't you think they would do it if it produced a better cut?

that was his opinion but i found it interesting.

[Bruce Page]

I have the Grizzly G0660X which is a Scheppach Plana 7 with Grizzly paint.


Mark, I had to check it out. You weren't kidding, even the chunk of wood is the same.
The power of Photoshop!

[John Stevens]

he said that the routinely sell large machines for $100,000-200,000 and none of them have helical cutter heads, and when you consider that adding $5000 to the price of a $200,000 really is nothing don't you think they would do it if it produced a better cut?

Well, I can't say what their reasons are, but I've got a Shelix in my jointer and wouldn't go back to straight blades. Amazingly low noise, virtually no tearout.

Still have several more convenience stores to rob before I've saved enough for my son's college tuition, then it's time to rob my way to a Hammer with the digital readout and a Shelix head.

Regards,

John

[John Harden]

Get the Hammer. I have a Felder, 16", J/P that still has the factory, chrome knives on it. I'd rate these as being in line with typical, commercial blades. In other words, not very good.

Nevertheless, they'll plane anything I throw at it without tear out, even Q/S white oak, birds eye maple and even some Katalox test samples.

The HSS knives Felder/Hammer sells are MUCH better than the chrome ones.

A helical cutterhead is not needed on a well engineered tool. They are certainly nice, but not necessary.

The key Hammer internals are designed and made in Austria. Only the externals and castings are from China.

Regards,

John

[Mark Woodmark]

Mark, I had to check it out. You weren't kidding, even the chunk of wood is the same.
The power of Photoshop!

I even emailed Scheppach in Germany and requested a parts list and drawing. They sent me the whole owners manual for the Plana 7...in three different languages. They also sent me catalogs. The parts list and drawing for the Plana 7 is identical to the Grizzly parts list and drawing. All the part numbers are the same. Since Grizzly discontinued selling this model, I wanted to make sure I could get parts. Although Scheppach does not sell here in the U S, they have been in business for quite some time and I could get parts from them if Grizzly cant or wont help me

[Curt Harms]

........
Still have several more convenience stores to rob before I've saved enough for my son's college tuition, then it's time to rob my way to a Hammer with the digital readout and a Shelix head.

Regards,

John

Huh, next time a WaWa gets robbed, we know where to look first
:D:D:D:D:D

based on responses by Hammer users, you might want to try with the factory head before installing a Shelix. People that own A 3 31's seem pretty happy with the finish as is. I don't have any experience with the Euro units but the Jet JJP does a great job on non-figured domestics, including tight knots and reversing grain.

[Jeff Mackay]

A couple other options:

- A Robland XSD 310. 12" Jointer/Planer combo for $3250.
- Laguna Platinum 10" Jointer/Planer combo for $1999
- Laguna Platinum 12" Jointer/Planer combo for $2910

All are available with a mortiser add-on.

[Charles Goodwin]

Bit the bullet and got the Hammer. Thanks for all the comments and advice. Now I wait, wait, wait for it to get here.

[Nick Lazz]

I was having the same decision dilemmas you are having and ultimately selected the Hammer A3-31 combo. I am glad I did.
First, I have only one machine so....more floor space and secondly it is of much higher quality then some of the cheaper brands.
There may have been a trade off with only a 12"planer, but the bonus was a 12" jointer. For me, I would seldom if ever need a planer larger than 12".

Good Luck,

Nick

[Rod Sheridan]

The key Hammer internals are designed and made in Austria. Only the externals and castings are from China.

Regards,

John

Hi John, when I asked Felder about that they stated that the castings were made in Switzerland, the motor in Germany and any other non Austrian parts were made in Europe.

Regards, Rod.