Grizzly vs Grizzly vs Jet

[Jeff Mackay]

Hi Everybody:

First post on this forum. Just looking for some opinions. I'm upsizing after downsizing. I started out with a contractor saw, along with all the separates to go with it: Delta 6" jointer, Makita planer, etc. With limited space in the shop, I decided to go with a Robland X31 about five years ago, and sold all my separates. I since built a house with a bigger shop, so I've decided to go back to separates again.

I'm going to start with a cabinet saw, and now I'm agonizing over which one to purchase. I started looking at a SawStop Pro. Decided not to spend that much money. Went down to a Powermatic 2000. Still a bit more than I want to spend this time around.

So I started looking at the Jet Deluxe Xacta Saw. Not quite as good as the Powermatic, but very respectable, and at a more comfortable price. Then I figured that if I was willing to go with Jet, I might as well look at Grizzly. The G0691 looks good, but the G1023RL looks a little bit better to me: mainly on the dust collection front. Feature for feature, I think the 1023 is a better match for the Jet.

So when I compare the Jet to the Grizzly 1023, the Jet has its reputation and a dealer network in its favor. Grizzly has developed a good reputation for service, but doesn't have the dealer network. The Grizzly has, I believe, a bigger table with more room in front of the blade. The fence on the Jet is probably slightly better than the fence on the Grizzly. The differences between them seem pretty minor.

In terms of price, the Jet costs $300 to $500 more. But I can get it in about three weeks (According to my local dealer, currently all the deluxe XActa's are on backorder waiting for fences with a three-week estimated delivery time). The Grizzly is cheaper, but I have to wait until mid-May to get it delivered. I don't have to have a machine now, but I'd rather get one sooner than later.

So what would you buy?

Jeff

[James Combs]

You might want to read this thread completely before deciding.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=135780
Including a review of the linked photo album.

My recommendation is the Griz G0690 or 91. The G0690 can really take a licking and a pitch.

[Mark Carlson]

Hi Jeff,

Welcome to the creek. I thought I saw a thread recently on this. A search turned up the link below:
My preference for new cabinet saws would be in this order:

1) SawStop
2) General 350/650
3) PM2000
4) Jet, Delta, Grizzly. (4th place but still very good machines)

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=107156

~mark

[Jeff Mackay]

Hi James:

That's a pretty amazing story. I saw the post, but didn't read it all the way through. Grizzly's definitely ahead now. The customer service certainly looks second to none. Keep us up-to-date on how it performs once you've finished! And good luck!

When you made your decision on which saw to purchase, what was the thought process? Did you consider the 1023RL as opposed to the 690?

I guess the main reason I'm sitting on the fence is two-fold: the amount of time I'll be waiting for delivery, and the potential for improved dust collection.

[Jeff Mackay]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the response. I mostly agree on the preferences. The safety advantages of the SawStop are obvious. But I'm a bit cautious around "young" companies, so that takes the SawStop out of the running for me. I love the Tesla Roadster, but I certainly wouldn't buy one for myself.

I'd probably switch the position of the General and the PM, and move the Delta up a notch. I'd put the Delta and the General above the Jet and the Grizzly from a quality--or at least a fit and finish--perspective. But both General and Delta are too high-priced in my opinion. I won't pay an extra 30% for fit and finish. Given an unlimited budget I probably would (and almost did) buy a PM2000.

But my goal is to be able to replace most of the functions of my multi-function machine with separate components over the next few months. I'll soon be looking for a new jointer, mortiser, shaper, and if I'm lucky, a new cyclone. So I had to be a little more realistic on the limitations of my budget.

That's what led me to Jet and eventually to Grizzly. I've purchased several other Grizzly products in the past: a shaper with sliding table, a horizontal mortiser, a router table, even chisels and shaper cutters. Quality on each was acceptable. I thought they were definitely worth the money I paid for them. So I was willing to consider a Grizzly table saw. But to be honest, it was the posts on this forum (like the one you and James referred me to above) that swayed me more in the Grizzly direction.

I think my main remaining question is on the differences in dust collection between a machine with a dust shroud and one without. Folks with the Jet Deluxe XActa Saw: how good is the dust collection on your machines? Has anyone gotten their hands on a G1023RL yet?

Jeff

[scott spencer]

Ouch...that is a sad story, but would you believe it's not the first story of this type I've read? You're taking the right approach, and I'm sure it'll all work out fine in time.

[James Combs]

I think you already figured out how I would know this :rolleyes: but I am not sure how fit and finish could be any better on any other saw. I have been inside and out of every part of the 690, no rough burrs, no embedded sand, etc as is typical of most off shore sourced equipment especially cast iron, excellent paint and finish even if doesn't stand up to "road rash", very heavy duty and as it seems can take a tremendous amount of punishment without total destruction.

As far as what swayed me between the 1023 and the 690, it was mainly blade speed. I don't have the specs in front of me but the 1023 turns at around 3600 rpm and the 690 at above 4000. I beleive the higher rpms will give a smoother cut, I could be wrong but that was the swaying factor. One other "minor" factor is that the 1023 trunnion is a complete new design with no appreciable history behind it.
(Yes Guys I realize that the 690 isn't very old either but it has at least a year on the 1023 as far as I can tell)


Hi James:

That's a pretty amazing story. I saw the post, but didn't read it all the way through. Grizzly's definitely ahead now. The customer service certainly looks second to none. Keep us up-to-date on how it performs once you've finished! And good luck!

When you made your decision on which saw to purchase, what was the thought process? Did you consider the 1023RL as opposed to the 690?

I guess the main reason I'm sitting on the fence is two-fold: the amount of time I'll be waiting for delivery, and the potential for improved dust collection.

[David Helm]

I've had a Jet cabinet saw for a number of years. Loved the saw, hated the dust collection. Due to an unfortunate incident I am replacing the Jet (not the Jet's fault and not mine either). After a lot of research, I decided on the 1023RLX, primarily because of the shrouded blade dust collection. Since my shop is in rebuild process (due to the incident) waiting till mid May is not a problem.

[Paul Johnstone]

I think my main remaining question is on the differences in dust collection between a machine with a dust shroud and one without. Folks with the Jet Deluxe XActa Saw: how good is the dust collection on your machines? Has anyone gotten their hands on a G1023RL yet?

Jeff

Just a comment. If you are going to get a cyclone and go with 6" ducting, you are probably going to have to retrofit whatever saw you get in order to maximize dust collection. Like split a 6" duct into a 5" duct at the bottom and a 4" duct on something like a Sharkguard on top. I have this combo on a basic delta contractor's saw, and it is amazingly effective (I boxed in the open base, and added a 5" dust port).

[David Prince]

I have a G0690 and find the dust collection acceptable for a cabinet saw. I am satisfied with the purchase and would do it again if I had to do it over. I read the story of the flying saw and the outcome made me proud to be the owner of a Grizzly saw. I think it is a good saw for the price compared to what it would take to get into a SS or PM. The benefits do not seem to justify the added expense to me.

[Jeff Mackay]

Good point, Paul. At the moment, I'm just moving a 1.5hp Delta where I need it. I do plan on eventually setting up a cyclone with proper ductwork, and I'm definitely leaning toward a shark guard as well. So I suppose the shark guard will collect the dust flying off the blade, while the internal port would catch anything that's left over.


Just a comment. If you are going to get a cyclone and go with 6" ducting, you are probably going to have to retrofit whatever saw you get in order to maximize dust collection. Like split a 6" duct into a 5" duct at the bottom and a 4" duct on something like a Sharkguard on top. I have this combo on a basic delta contractor's saw, and it is amazingly effective (I boxed in the open base, and added a 5" dust port).

[Mike Heidrick]

So are you planning to keep the robland? I do not think the other saws are comparable to the robland personally. I think you will be going down on capacity and function and stability. I would add duplicate seperates before losing the Robland to a NA cabinet saw. Replace it with a felder saw shaper maybe.

[Joseph Tarantino]

jeff...if dealer support is a consideration in your acquisition process, i humbly suggest you do some first hand research. my two experiences with authorized jet dealers have been unsatisfactory. i own an 18" jet BS and brought it to a dealer to have it returned to factory settings, specifically the lower wheel hub. when i was presented with a bill for $170, i was told they were not provided with teh tools or jigs the factory uses to set up the saws, so they could only approximate the settings. a second dealer was even less helpful. i am left with the feeling that anything beyond defective parts replacement is outside the capabilities of their dealers. i'd buy grizzly.

[Jeff Mackay]

So are you planning to keep the robland? I do not think the other saws are comparable to the robland personally. I think you will be going down on capacity and function and stability. I would add duplicate seperates before losing the Robland to a NA cabinet saw. Replace it with a felder saw shaper maybe.

Hi Mike.

Probably not. Don't get me wrong: the Robland is good. I'm sure I've run more than 10,000 linear feet of lumber through the table saw alone in the last few years. In that time, I've only found two real weaknesses: trade-offs in setup time, and the electrical system as a single point of failure for all functions. Neither of these is a showstopper.

My main reason for acquiring it was a lack of space. Now that I have room for separate components, I'd rather go that route instead. In my opinion, the Robland is a good table saw, jointer, planer, and shaper; it's a great mortiser. I haven't used the shaper very often lately, and I rarely use the planer.

Getting the equivalent in all of those tools will be expensive. So I'm doing it a bit at a time. I'll start with the table saw. In terms of that function, the Robland is on par with the class of machine I'm looking at--the Jet and Grizzly. I wouldn't even consider anything without a riving knife. I haven't decided whether I'll get a sliding table. We'll see how I use it over the next few years.

I'll continue to use the Robland mainly as a jointer and mortiser. But it's pretty big to just use it for those two functions. So I'll replace those over time as well. First will come a dedicated 12" jointer, and then a mortiser.

Jeff

[Jeff Mackay]

jeff...if dealer support is a consideration in your acquisition process, i humbly suggest you do some first hand research. my two experiences with authorized jet dealers have been unsatisfactory...

Hi Joseph:

Sorry to hear about your trouble. I've haven't really heard anything about Jet dealer support before--I just knew they had a dealer network. I've never actually had the need for a dealer repair. I usually tackle repairs on my own. But I do want to make sure the manufacturer I'm buying from is responsive and keeps parts in stock. Judging from the forum posts I've seen here, it looks to me like it would be difficult to beat Grizzly on the customer service front. I'm definitely leaning in that direction. Now I just have to decide between the 690 and the 1023.

Jeff

[Jeff Mackay]

As far as what swayed me between the 1023 and the 690, it was mainly blade speed.

James, you make a pretty compelling argument. The motor on the 690 is appealing. And I suppose I could always try to make some modifications to the machine if I don't like the dust collection. Do you know of anyone who's done it already?

In terms of the 1023, I guess that just adding a shroud to the saw doesn't guarantee that dust collection will be significantly better. With no experience reports, I'd be taking a chance.

Ideally, I'd like to see a combination of the two machines: the 690 with a Leeson motor, serpentine belt, and a shround. But since that isn't happening any time soon, it looks like the 690 is the front runner now.

Hmmm, sounds like I'm leaning the same direction you did.

Jeff

[Joseph Tarantino]

jeff...if i ever dump the jet, i'd definately look to grizzly first. jet may have a network of dealers, but the two i dealt with either didn't have any real mechanics or chose to be unresponsive to my issues. usually, the tail ldoes what the head tells it to do. your mentioning the dealer network led me to surface the issue.

[Jeff Mackay]

Thanks for the discussion and advice everybody. I decided to jump off the fence and go with the Grizzly 0691. Why? The machine looks solid and it gets good reviews. The Leeson motor spins at the same rate as higher end saws (Unisaw, PM, etc.). I've seen very positive feedback on the saw here. The negatives (dust collection and minor fence issues) are minor. And finally: I'm used to working with a sliding table, and Grizzly offers what looks to be a very decent add-on sliding table for this machine. Didn't notice this last point until last night, and this is the one that made up my mind for me.

So why not the 1023? The only two big advantages I saw to the 1023 were dust collection and the belt. The belt will theoretically transfer power more efficiently from the motor to the saw, yet (or maybe so) Grizzly bundled a less efficient motor with this saw. It should also result in a quieter machine, but my workshop is basically in a crypt (beneath the garage) so noise isn't a critical factor for me. The dust shroud may or may not improve the dust handling on this machine. I just don't know because nobody has one yet. I can always play around with the 690 and try to improve its dust handling characteristics.

Why Grizzly over Jet? Customer service...and the sliding table.

So thanks a lot everybody, and I'll try to post some pictures after it arrives and I get it set up. And James, I'll take the corners real slowly :)

Jeff