Problems with circular saws?

[ana arguezo]

Hello Sawmill Creek Community!

I am a student at app state and I am working on a big project where I am redesigning the circular saw SPECIFICALLY FOR THE FRAMING MARKET. I have a couple of more specific questions of how the circular saw is used. If you guys could help me that would be great!

Are there any problems with the circular saw that lead to things such as uncomfortable use, lack of precision, etc when framing?

How would you like the safety switch to work on your saw?

Would you prefer the blade on the left side or the right side? Why do you prefer them on this side???

Would you like and easier way to verify exactly at what depth or at what angle you cut will be? Is it easy enough to identify accurately right now? I was thinking of adding a small screen that digitally gives you this information, do you think this might be a good thing to explore??

Anything else to make your framing work easier while using a saw??

Once again, Thanks so much!!!

[Matt Day]

Have you looked at the Festool saw? Some guys will probably say that's exactly what they want, so Festool might have beaten you to the punch!

[David Prince]

Hello Sawmill Creek Community!

I am a student at app state and I am working on a big project where I am redesigning the circular saw SPECIFICALLY FOR THE FRAMING MARKET. I have a couple of more specific questions of how the circular saw is used. If you guys could help me that would be great!

Are there any problems with the circular saw that lead to things such as uncomfortable use, lack of precision, etc when framing?

How would you like the safety switch to work on your saw?

Would you prefer the blade on the left side or the right side? Why do you prefer them on this side???

Would you like and easier way to verify exactly at what depth or at what angle you cut will be? Is it easy enough to identify accurately right now? I was thinking of adding a small screen that digitally gives you this information, do you think this might be a good thing to explore??

Anything else to make your framing work easier while using a saw??

Once again, Thanks so much!!!

A blade on the left side seems to work best for a right handed person. You can see your lines clearly. But, the downside is that this now places the weight of the saw on your cut-off. So, when your cut off piece falls, you loose support for your saw.

The blade guard on most creates a problem with cutting angles on lumber. If you come at it from the wrong angle, the guard gets caught on the angle of the lumber piece.

Worm drive saws have a decent design and cut well, but they tend to tip over when you set them down. But, the power of the worm drive is a great factor. Pretty hard to bog them down.

The saw doesn't need a safety switch. Just design the trigger so that you have to intentionally put your hand where it is suppose to be to pull the trigger and start the switch.

The angle and depth adjustments seem to work well enough the way they are. This is framing and not cabinet work, so precision is not that important.

Though it doesn't really take that long, changing blades is uncomfortable. And you have to keep in mind the threads to tighten / loosen depending on if it is a blade on the right or blade on the left.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

What are you trying to change? I'm not a framer, but, the Skill wormdrive has been the staple of framers for a long long time. Something that is simple and dependable is the absolute key. Adding a screen for whatever reason you may think is important, may not be what a framer wants. Speed of cut and reliability is tops. Take a look at the Skill Mag 77, the current model, that is what most framers want or have. There are other brands creeping into that market, take a look at those too.

If you're set on adding a screen, drop it off the roof and see if it breaks. It shouldn't break.

Just my $.02.

[Marty Paulus]

While I don't frame for a living I would believe a screen is not a feature that would be useful. This saw will live in 100+degree heat. The sun beating down on it. It will be dropped and kicked. It will be rained on. It will get mud on it. It will be dusty. It may even see freezing temps and snow. It has to work every time. It is not ultra precise work. The angle will be looked at once and if it is not at 90 they will look closer. Ease of making the adjustment is more important. It doesn't matter if the cut is 44, 45 or 46 degrees or even more off. The cut will be covered and never seen. Close counts here. Depth, again, is not precision. If it looks close to what is needed that is good enough. Many times the depth gage is the piece of lumber being cut. If you are cutting ply, you don't grab your tape to set the depth you set the saw on the wood and adjust from there. This is a rough tool. If you want precision cuts there are other tools that do that all day. The cuts are 'close enough'. It's like the difference between a chain saw and a scaple. Remember after the wood is cut it is held in place by nails from a framing gun. Again not a precison tool.

Recap: Make it durable and easy to use. Stay away from electronics and fine/precise parts.

[Dick Brown]

I like the blade on the left, Would like a bit less weight than the Skill 77 but the other side of that coin is that it works for you if you get a pinch in green lumber or some other thing that makes the saw want to back out of the cut. Would hate to try and hold some of the "Homeowner" saws if they had the 77's power in a case like that. I bought a used Skill plastic saw just to cut some bricks as I didn't want to get the 77 in that kind of dust. Has a button you must push to the side before you can pull the switch. Big pain as well as more danger trying to make it work than without it. Found a sheet metal screw in the right place solved that problem. For a framer, I don't think the info screen would have much value. The blade gaurd is an area that could stand some refining. As stated in another post, If doing an angle cut, it can be a problem.
Hope this helps. looking forward to reading other posts and ideas.

[Mac McQuinn]

I've used a 77 "framing" worm drive saw quite a bit in the field and feel it's a very solid tool, the length of the worm drive keeps you on line really well, the issue is the weight after a day's work of framing:rolleyes:.

I recently purchased a Ridgid Fuego 6.5" saw which works very well. Compact, very light, plenty powerful and solidly built w/ composite base. I don't care for the right side blade although I can work around it. I really like the thin kerf blade and blade depth adjustment has wood thicknesses stamped on it for quick calculations.

That said, My perfect framing saw would be to combine the very light weight, accuracy and solid construction of the Ridgid Fuego with the worm drive and left-hand blade of the 77 worm drive saw. Keep it around 10lbs which is much less than the normal worm drives. I'd like a safety like some hand guns use, a squeezer located at back of handle which has to be pressed down to activate the trigger.

Build it and I'll buy it;)

Mac

[Peter Quinn]

Are you serious about this? All kidding aside, when you asked about a digital screen on a framing saw, I nearly peed myself. High degree accuracy, improved comfort, exact depth setting, digital screen, what does any of that have to do with framing? Its a skill saw, not a Bridgeport. The digital screen and the saw dust are not generally good friends.

I am not a professional framer, but I have worked for money on several framing crews for a bit in my past. If you want to understand what your average framer and his saw go through in order to completely redesign it, I'd recommend you take a semester off from school, or call it a "work study", and get a job as a framer. That will certainly enhance your perspective and probably answer most of your questions.

Good luck in your endeavor.

[Dave Lehnert]

Come on guys, It's a school project. Kinda like the concept cars that Ford or the like design but never build.

How about a saw that will guide itself exactly on a pencil line drawn on the wood. Automatic blade change with the press of a button. A saw that you can use the blade on the left or right. A power switch that turns on or off just by thinking about it. Screen? YES! a 52" so we can see the big game as we work. All in a package that is less than two pounds.

[james penn]

Hello Sawmill Creek Community!

I am a student at app state and I am working on a big project where I am redesigning the circular saw SPECIFICALLY FOR THE FRAMING MARKET. I have a couple of more specific questions of how the circular saw is used. If you guys could help me that would be great!

Are there any problems with the circular saw that lead to things such as uncomfortable use, lack of precision, etc when framing?

How would you like the safety switch to work on your saw?

Would you prefer the blade on the left side or the right side? Why do you prefer them on this side???

Would you like and easier way to verify exactly at what depth or at what angle you cut will be? Is it easy enough to identify accurately right now? I was thinking of adding a small screen that digitally gives you this information, do you think this might be a good thing to explore??

Anything else to make your framing work easier while using a saw??

Once again, Thanks so much!!!


SPECIFICALLY FOR THE FRAMING MARKET.

ana,
the wormdrive circular saws was designed to cut suggar canes.:eek:
with that in mind...forget what you arleady know about circular saws and start from scratch. use your imagination.
there is no fun trying to transform a sugar cane saw into the best possible framing saw.




james penn
eurekazone

[Joe Wiliams]

How about flush cutting, or at least closer, on one side?

[tyler mckee]

I don't think there is much you could do to the 77 to make it better for framing, the mag 77 is a few pounds lighter than the regular one.

Not to get too off track here but talking about new saws, anyone seen the new skill "flooring saw" a similar table for a traditional circ saw might be neat.

[Jay Jeffery]

I've got a DeWalt worm drive framing saw that has a few of the features mentioned here. It also has a hook that lets you hang it on a joist, tool-free adjustments, and an arbor lock. There isn't a whole lot more anyone could want in a basic saw. But of course there are a few things.

I'd love to see a better scale at the front of the plate on which to guide along the line. Most saws just have a small point or line stamped or notched in the plate. It is of little use when cutting angles, so perhaps having the lines marked somehow for common angles might look nice. Something with higher visibility would of course help. Many saws have lasers, but I've never used one.

Saw blades come with a diamond shaped knockout for use on some saws. Once you knock it out, you can't use it on saws not deigned with the diamond shaped bushing. Something that could handle either blade might be of value.

Onboard storage of the blade wrench, pencil, and maybe even a small square could be handy.

If you want an extra safety feature, put a small switch that requires that the plate be pressed towards the motor to run. It would not only make unintended start ups less common, but it would also to a certain degree force the operator to use the saw properly.

Some miter saws have lights on them that let the blade cast a shadow where it will cut. I don't know if that's been done on a skill saw.

[Jim Terrill]

If you want an extra safety feature, put a small switch that requires that the plate be pressed towards the motor to run. It would not only make unintended start ups less common, but it would also to a certain degree force the operator to use the saw properly.


Well I know that I for one have used my circ to plunge cut before where I had the tip down but the back was raised as I plunged through. Think cutting out openings for windows in ply. If there was a switch in the heel of the saw, that cut would not be possible.

Things I would see as improvements to the saw:

-Some sort of dynamic braking system to slow the blade quickly
-Replaceable plastic plates for the bottom plate- the plates can get pretty scratched up when cutting lumber on a site where the backfill is silt sand, if you can switch out the outer plates at will, this would be less of a concern
-Use newer generation LEDs with more power, perhaps with adjustable brightness, framing in a dimly lit basement is a fact of life, and some saws with their tiny leds are of minimal use

[Tom Rick]

Hello Sawmill Creek Community!

I am a student at app state and I am working on a big project where I am redesigning the circular saw SPECIFICALLY FOR THE FRAMING MARKET. I have a couple of more specific questions of how the circular saw is used. If you guys could help me that would be great!

Are there any problems with the circular saw that lead to things such as uncomfortable use, lack of precision, etc when framing?

How would you like the safety switch to work on your saw?

Would you prefer the blade on the left side or the right side? Why do you prefer them on this side???

Would you like and easier way to verify exactly at what depth or at what angle you cut will be? Is it easy enough to identify accurately right now? I was thinking of adding a small screen that digitally gives you this information, do you think this might be a good thing to explore??

Anything else to make your framing work easier while using a saw??

Once again, Thanks so much!!!

Take a very close look at the superb B&D 3064 Super Sawcat.
There is very little that could be done to improve on this excellent saw.

Decide on the target market:
For pro's skip the digital readouts.
For pro's skip the safety. If you must, consider a 1911 style grip safety.
The blade should be on the right.

Features of note on the B&D 3064:

1) A large flat sole plate. Tempered AL stays flat even when abused.
2) Sufficient weight. Light saws are no good.
3) Really well balanced. The saw must be well balanced in three axis for plate work and vertical cuts.
4) Simple, robust adjustment for depth and angle.
5) Sufficient power. Saw needs to be able to cut 2x12 wet PT plates endlessly.
6) Really decent guard. It gets itself out of the way well even on tough tapers and can be safely toggled back and held/released while cutting if need be.

The are subtle points in all hand/portable power tools. A great deal of importance lies in the grip. A few degrees of difference in the grip angle makes a tool either superb and simple to use, or dangerous and tiresome.

I have two nearly identical 1/2" high torque electric drills. One is a hazard, a bad grip angle make the tool likely to wrap up the wrist if it binds while the other can be handled with ease. If you get these detail wrong, injuries will result.

A circular saw of can easily kick back. Grip angle and height is important to control the tool.
Do some studies of how the grip arc relates to the sole plane and center of blade rotation in existing saws. Again- look at the 3064. The grip allows shifting hold from low for control in push cuts to high for sheathing work on walls.

[Glen Butler]

I framed for years and the Mag 77 was the staple. Rugged and powerful. That is what matters. I use circular saws in finish carpentry also and I would like something more accurate, but for framing, that just isn't necessary. Take a look at the Makita 5337MG. I would say it is the best circular saw out there right now. A flat plate and nice adjustment levers. For framing it would still take the Mag 77 because the plate is steel and will bend when dropped. The Makita plate will snap. Like I said, for framing, durability and power come first, then weight, then accuracy. And this is coming from someone who frames with tighter tolerances than most. I am accurate to 1/16" when framing while most only care about an 1/8".