Kitchen Cabinet/Drawers Finish

[Dennis Lopeman]

OK ok ok - I know - been discussed a bunch!!! Well... I did my research and there were LOTS of inputs. What I really would like is a sign off on my research and plan! :) (please)

Oh - and THANKS to everyone for all the contributions to this information over the years!

So - here's the scoop - PLEASE tell me if good to go:



Cherry and Pacific Red Maple (cuz it's HALF the price of cherry and almost looks identical!!!!)
Rail/Stile/Raised panel for doors and drawers! It's fun.
1st: Will probably stain just so the colors stay even. Gel Minwax color: Honey Maple (I got it on sale for $2 a can from BORG - got 2 cans whether I'll use them or not!)
2nd: Zinssers Seal Coat - can I brush/wipe that on (like BLO)?
400 grit sand
3rd: Two maybe 3 layers of Oxford/Target/USL/EM6000 (LOL - how many names can this stuff have!!??!) - Sanding between 400/800/1000 grit??

I made my first prototype drawer front (after almost 3 weeks of learning curve and jig building/enhancement) - put BLO on it and WOW - it's freaking awesome and I can't wait to move forward. So that's why I wanted to do research and make sure I was putting the right long lasting finishes on it. Looks like BLO is not the way to go... but instead Seal Coat... I bought some Seal Coat at BORG last night. I did like how the BLO really brought out the wood character - I hope the Seal Coat will do that, too!!

THANKS in advance!!

[David Thompson 27577]

........................

2nd: Zinssers Seal Coat - can I brush/wipe that on (like BLO)?




IIRC, Zinsser's SealCoat is a shellac product -- like maybe a one pound cut.

And if I'm right about that, you might want to brush the stuff on, but not wipe it. Because shellac dries so very quickly, that using a rag-on method is difficult.

And even if you brush it on, start by brushing it onto a test piece that has the same sanding and staining schedule. See if the shellac dissolves the stain.

Note though, that if you do some reading and practicing, you can use a wipe-on method with shellac, with absolutely great result -- it's called French Polish. It's a skill worthy of learning, but probably not best used for kitchen cabinets.

[Scott Holmes]

My favorite finish for cherry is BLO, straight - there is no advantage to thinning it with MS. All you are doing is taking a 100% solids finish and adding MS to it, which evaporates into the air. MS is not a solvent for BLO so you are making the BLO molecules further apart; but not smaller.
Then Zinsser Sealcoat which is a 2# cut of super blond dewaxed shellac.

Then top coat of Waterlox Original varnish.

This schedule will pop the grain and give you excellent durability.

EM6000 is another good choice for top coat.

[Dennis Lopeman]

Thanks for your input J. Scott!!

This one drawer (I actually brought it to work for show and tell! LOL - there's a guy here interested in wood working stuff, too) I created at my prototype just has BLO on it. Over the last week it seems the color has gotten darker and just more awesome!! It also has a nice soft, satin, look to it and people who saw it thought that was nice just like that.

Well, to bad the BLO isn't by itself good enough for Kitchen Cabinets.

OH - And Thanks David for the brush tip on the shellac. I have some cheapo throw away brushes, but I saw a lot of mentions about having a good brush... But if it's just a sealer, then it won't really matter if I'm sanding it after it cures and pops up the grain - right?!?!??

Anyway. So back to my actual recipe. I guess my biggest concern is when/IF to add the stain. Like I mentioned, I will be using some Red Maple, which is a Cherry substitute. In order that I ensure the color stays somewhat constant, I think I need to stain it.

So my formula, from studying many posts on this subject, is:
1. Stain (gel)
2. Zinnsers Seal Coat (not BLO? - I sure do love BLO!
3. Target EM6000, 2 coats

IS this going to work??

[Dennis Lopeman]

Hmmm - I might change the Gel Stain to a dye... I saw someone talking about it and then went to WoodCraft wesite.

I read the single review for this stuff:
General Finishes, Water Based Dye, Vintage Cherry
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2020491/22655/General-Finishes--Water-Based-Dye--Vintage-Cherry--Pint.aspx

The review sort of hits on what I want to accomplish. I want my mix of Red Maple and Cherry to all look like Cherry.

Any more comments? Anyone have experience with (this) dye used like that?

Thanks.

[Scott Holmes]

Maple and cherry don't like stain gel or wipe-on. If you use dye I suggestthat you mix it in denatured alcohol (DNA) and spray it to get even coverage. No wiping needed. Spraying will produce the best color consistency IF you are good at spraying and you give it evenly overlapped coverage. Dyes get darker with each coat. you can adjust it with a rag and DNA but evenly sprayed is best.

[Dennis Lopeman]

Maple and cherry don't like stain gel or wipe-on. If you use dye I suggestthat you mix it in denatured alcohol (DNA) and spray it to get even coverage. No wiping needed. Spraying will produce the best color consistency IF you are good at spraying and you give it evenly overlapped coverage. Dyes get darker with each coat. you can adjust it with a rag and DNA but evenly sprayed is best.

Thanks.

Thats interesting about the spraying part. I always brushed or wiped it on, let it sit a little while, then wiped it off... whatever absorbed is my "finished" product. I might do it twice. I might leave it on longer it I wanted it darker... OH and I'm talking about STAIN - not dye...

So I have some learning curve if I chose the dye route...

[Dennis Lopeman]

Follow-up...

Thanks guys for your inputs above... I did not ignore everything you've said.

I mentioned that some of the wood I'm using is Pacific Red Maple. Well, I got some of those pieces mixed up with me cherry and could barely tell them appart. Since Cherry changes color over time and the maple won't as much, I had decided (as much as I hated to!) to do a light staining over the lighter peices to try to keep all the color somewhat even. Don't get me wrong; I LIKE the way the Cherry changes, I like the so-called blotchiness, the variations... I like the character. It was the drastic changes that I was leary of and since this is going in my kitchen I didn't want too much attention drawn to it in that way.

So - Last night I got all my drawer fronts finished cutting. I dry assembled and then made some minor fixes. Then I stained only the raised panel pieces. You know how if a panel changes size (as they do!) and then you can see the lines where the stain didn't get? I hate that. So I stained all those, but nothing more. I will re-assemble, and then glue, and then I put a final routed edge around the outside, probably a light sanding, and then stain all again.

OH - I changed stain - someone up there said the Gel isn't good for Cherry. I concur. I tested and it didn't take very well. I'm still using Minwax, but the color is Colonial Maple, which incidentally looks JUST like the test drawer I made with Cherry and an application of BLO. I even think it has changed color over the last week having done nothing more to it, other than show it off to everyone!!

Can I use BLO under the Seal coat to bring out more character!??! I actually bought the Cherry pieces I have from the mill because they had so many gum lines in them!! I love that!
So anyone do this: Stain, BLO, Seal Test, EM6000?

Then I will Seal Coat... with a brush! The test I did absorbs right into the wood so I don't even see it on the surface.

Then I will EM6000 with a brush that has an air hose attached! (I just read that in someone elses post!) LOL

Thanks in advance