anybody have a Grizzly moulding head?

[david brum]

I'm looking at the moulding heads for shapers with corrugated inserts. Does anybody have one of these? The price seems pretty reasonable and the 2" moulding head would fit nicely on my 1 1/2hp shaper.

http://www.amazon.com/Woodstock-D1700-2-Inch-Moulding-System/dp/B0000DD0WS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&m=A2LM8ZC59IT9RX&s=hi&

Yes, it would always be used with a power feeder. I envision occasional use and perhaps grinding some custom profiles. If my thinking is correct, I could grind a 1/2 profile on a 2" blank cutter in order to make 4" crown molding.

[Scott T Smith]

David, I have the 3" version of this moulding head that I've used with a 3 hp shaper. It works fine, but you may need to experiment a little with the head speed and feed speed in order to achieve the best results.

Take the time to build some good featherboards to support your workpiece as it crosses the head.

A power feeder is mandatory; not only for safety but also for obtaining a consistently machined surface.

[Larry Edgerton]

You don't say what shaper you have, and I am not familier with Grizzley's head, but the heads I have are heavy and I would not want to run them on a light shaper.

If you do get one be very carefull, there is a lot of knife sticking out, and as such it can really grab stock. Make sure you have your setups well thought out and do not feed by hand.

Just a thought..........

[david brum]

I have the 3" version of this moulding head that I've used with a 3 hp shaper. It works fine, but you may need to experiment a little with the head speed and feed speed in order to achieve the best results.

Take the time to build some good featherboards to support your workpiece as it crosses the head.

A power feeder is mandatory; not only for safety but also for obtaining a consistently machined surface.

Thanks for the reply Scott. Since I'm new with shapers, would you elaborate on how how you set up feather boards and a power feeder? I was imagining that they were mutually exclusive, but what do I know?



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[Rod Sheridan]

David, I wouldn't recommend the head you have posted the link to, regardless of who makes it.

For the average hobby user, the heads that accept pin indexed knives are far safer, do yourself a favour and buy that type.

The knife type cutter heads are all MEC rated tools by the EU, which means they have to be used in power fed applications.

The heads are available with and without chip limiters, the chip limited heads provide an additional degree of protection from kickback,however they are still MEC cutters.

They aren't designed to be used by hand, although I do use them that way, especially smaller edge treatments.

Look at CMT, Dimar, Felder etc for the pin indexed heads, some are available in smaller diameters and in aluminum for lower mass.

Regards, Rod.

[david brum]

You don't say what shaper you have, and I am not familier with Grizzley's head, but the heads I have are heavy and I would not want to run them on a light shaper.

If you do get one be very carefull, there is a lot of knife sticking out, and as such it can really grab stock. Make sure you have your setups well thought out and do not feed by hand.

Thanks for the concern Larry. This moulding head is specifically designed to be used with Grizzly's 1 1/2hp shaper. I have a Jet 1 1/2hp, so I'm pretty sure I would be OK. It is aluminum, so pretty light.

I definitely understand about the importance of using a power feeder. I read a post about somebody's friend losing their entire hand. That cemented the idea for me.

[david brum]

David, I wouldn't recommend the head you have posted the link to, regardless of who makes it.

For the average hobby user, the heads that accept pin indexed knives are far safer, do yourself a favour and buy that type.

Thanks Rod. Since I am wholly ignorant about these things, could you elaborate on why pinned knives are better? Are regular corrugated ones likely to fly out?

[Rod Sheridan]

Thanks Rod. Since I am wholly ignorant about these things, could you elaborate on why pinned knives are better? Are regular corrugated ones likely to fly out?

Hi David, corrugated knives have been used for decades in industry, and yes, on rare occasions one will get loose.

This is usually due to wear, or incorrect installation.

The pin indexed knives avoid the installation judgement requirements, making them much more forgiving in a hobby installation in my opinion.

Regards, Rod.

[Shiraz Balolia]

David - anything will "fly loose" with incorrect installation. Jointer knives, planer knives etc, yet there are millions of them in use daily and not considered dangerous. Heck, the wheel on your car can come off if installed incorrectly.

We sell these corrugated heads and the matching knives and they are in much demand by production shops because of the double safety of multiple corrugations that hold the blade firmly to the cutterhead. We have sold thousands of them and never had any issues at all. You have to take the "expert" advice of internet posters with a grain of salt, specially ones that have never used the exact item you are inquiring about. If there was even a hint of a safety issue, this product would be history!

[david brum]

Wow, thanks Shiraz. That's reassuring. I can see Rod's point about avoiding any possibility of flying knives, but your design looks pretty solid.

While I've got you, what size power feeder would you recommend for that head with a 1 1/2 hp shaper?

Thanks again

[Rod Sheridan]

David, in about a thousand knife changes on 4 head molders I only had one knife come loose in a corrugated head.

It bent itself 180 degrees, and shattered the cast iron shroud around the head.

The spindle was also bent and required replacement.

No one was injured, however I kept that knife on my desk for years.

Was it my fault?

Probably, whether it was worn and I didn't inspect it carefully, or it had some dirt in it, or I just didn't torque the head properly, who knows.

A few years later when I owned a shaper at home, I decided to use the heads with the locating pins/wedge.

Regards, Rod.

[Shiraz Balolia]

While I've got you, what size power feeder would you recommend for that head with a 1 1/2 hp shaper?

Thanks again

The main issue with power feeders being used on small shapers is the physical size of the power feeder itself, which ends up limiting the H.P. one should use.
I believe that the G4176 should do the trick, and if you have to, you can make a couple of passes and adjust the depth. I even have to do that with my 3 H.P. shaper with the 1/2 H.P. power feeder to reduce slippage and tearout. http://www.grizzly.com/products/1-4-HP-Power-Feeder/G4176

[Scott T Smith]

Thanks for the reply Scott. Since I'm new with shapers, would you elaborate on how how you set up feather boards and a power feeder? I was imagining that they were mutually exclusive, but what do I know?



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David, the configuration depends upon what I'm making. For something thin such as picture frame material, I'll set the power feed up on the infeed side of the head, with the rollers close to, but not quite opposite of the cutting head. My objective is to make sure that the power feeder rollers cannot "spring" into the cutting blades once the wood exits the feeder. I'll also set up a tall set of feather boards on the outfeed portion, so that the stock is anchored on the infeed side by the power feeder and on the outfeed side by the featherboards, ensuring that the stock is well supported from top to bottom. I'll use the Grizzly spring holders to keep the top of the stock forced down against the table. Basically I want the stock well anchored in all dimensions so that it cannot move other than laterally across the cutterhead.

I'll pull the stock by hand the last inch across the cutterhead, once it exits the powerfeeder. I'm gripping the stock after it has exited the table, so my hands are nowhere near the cutterhead. The feeder is set up so that the wheel axle's are parallel to the fence, and the stock is gripped inbetween the feed rollers and the fence.

I have both corrugated and pin type cutterheads; the latter are used on a 4 head moulder. Both Rod and Shiraz make good points about the pro's and con's of each; one nice thing about the pin types is that it is easier to index the profile cutters (knives). I've never had a corrugated knife come loose, but I'm not using them anywhere near as much as Rod has either.

[david brum]

David, in about a thousand knife changes on 4 head molders I only had one knife come loose in a corrugated head.

It bent itself 180 degrees, and shattered the cast iron shroud around the head.

The spindle was also bent and required replacement.

No one was injured, however I kept that knife on my desk for years.

Was it my fault?

Probably, whether it was worn and I didn't inspect it carefully, or it had some dirt in it, or I just didn't torque the head properly, who knows.

A few years later when I owned a shaper at home, I decided to use the heads with the locating pins/wedge.

Regards, Rod.

Thanks Rod, that's sobering. I can see that I have some decisions to make. I'm currently trying find a good price on a power feeder. Since they are all fairly expensive, it may be a while before I can afford cutters anyway.

[david brum]

The main issue with power feeders being used on small shapers is the physical size of the power feeder itself, which ends up limiting the H.P. one should use.
I believe that the G4176 should do the trick, and if you have to, you can make a couple of passes and adjust the depth. I even have to do that with my 3 H.P. shaper with the 1/2 H.P. power feeder to reduce slippage and tearout. http://www.grizzly.com/products/1-4-...r-Feeder/G4176 (http://www.grizzly.com/products/1-4-HP-Power-Feeder/G4176)

Thanks Shiraz. I was hoping that 1/4hp would be sufficient. Dang, do those things ever go on sale?







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[david brum]

David, the configuration depends upon what I'm making. For something thin such as picture frame material, I'll set the power feed up on the infeed side of the head, with the rollers close to, but not quite opposite of the cutting head. My objective is to make sure that the power feeder rollers cannot "spring" into the cutting blades once the wood exits the feeder. I'll also set up a tall set of feather boards on the outfeed portion, so that the stock is anchored on the infeed side by the power feeder and on the outfeed side by the featherboards, ensuring that the stock is well supported from top to bottom. I'll use the Grizzly spring holders to keep the top of the stock forced down against the table. Basically I want the stock well anchored in all dimensions so that it cannot move other than laterally across the cutterhead.

I'll pull the stock by hand the last inch across the cutterhead, once it exits the powerfeeder. I'm gripping the stock after it has exited the table, so my hands are nowhere near the cutterhead. The feeder is set up so that the wheel axle's are parallel to the fence, and the stock is gripped inbetween the feed rollers and the fence.

I have both corrugated and pin type cutterheads; the latter are used on a 4 head moulder. Both Rod and Shiraz make good points about the pro's and con's of each; one nice thing about the pin types is that it is easier to index the profile cutters (knives). I've never had a corrugated knife come loose, but I'm not using them anywhere near as much as Rod has

Thank you very much Scott. I have a clear picture of your procedure.

Best wishes



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[Chuck Cibes]

The information so far has helped me a lot, as I have a Grizzly 3 HP shaper and wanting to buy a power feeder and molding head for it. I think I can only afford the 1/4 hp power feeder. In the last post, you say that you have the feeder set up so the feeder is pushing against the fence, which is what it sounds like you'd have to do to feed against the molding head. My question is, can you manipulate the feeder around so that it will do that? Apparently you can, but I can't figure out in my head how to "elbow" it around that far so that the axles are parallel with the fence. Can you fill me in a little? I won't be doing a lot of molding, but have one job coming up that will need enough to justify it, --then I have it, and I'm sure it'll get used much in the future. Thanks!

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Chuck if you're feeding stock flat on the table, the power feeder is angled in towards the fence slightly to push the stock against the fence.

I would estimate that I toe my feeder in towards the fence about 1/2" over the length of the feeder.

If you have flipped the feeder over so that the stock is flat against the feeder, the feeder toes in towards the table the same amount.

This insures that the work is pressed down against the table and the fence at the same time.

Regards, Rod.

[Chuck Cibes]

Thanks Rod,
So if you're running the stock vertical from the table, that is, flat against the fence, you can flip the feeder over and get it set up that way? Thanks again!

Chuck