Medium priced bowl gouge

[Stephen Saar]

I am still learning on my lathe, and I bought a set of cheaper (i.e. $50 for 6) different tools to learn on, unfortunately I haven't learned as fast as I wanted, and I'm looking for a semi decent bowl gouge to replace the one I currently have. Eventually I am going to get a Thompson for all my tools, but since I'm still learning how to sharpen correctly, I don't want to waste all that money on a tool I'm going to eat away on sharpening. So I was looking for a medium priced bowl gouge that is a little better than what I have, but I won't mind if I destroy it. I'm looking for something sub $50, but I haven't found a whole lot in that range. Any advice on what might be a good idea, or should I just buy another cheap combo set?

Thanks.

-Stephen

[Mark Burge]

Stephen, I was in the same boat a few years back. I bought a bowl gouge from Penn State to learn on and, lo and behold, I'm still using it now. Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm happy with what I've got. I don't recall which one it was, but it wasn't too expensive (in your ball park) and it was the 3/4".

[Gary Conklin]

Thompson 38V-V-shaped Bowl Gouge - 3/8"$45

Worth the price of admission.

Or go this way and turn a handle.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2080225/28395/Sorby-Sovereign-Fingernail-Bowl-Gouge-38-in.aspx

Plus woodcraft is having their bag sale.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Penn State has 3 gouges for $52. A 3/8", 1/2", and 5/8". These will serve you well as I am still using my set after 5 yrs.

[Nick Fournier]

I can also recommend the Benjamin's Best Bowl gouges, I have the 5/8" and it works well for me. I was in a similar situation where I didn't want to learn to sharpen on something that was really expensive. I've turned with more expensive tools and haven't noticed much of a difference.

I have heard great things about the Thompson tools though and since I want a smaller tool, that will likely be my next tool.

[Steve Schlumpf]

I started with the Benjamin's Best 5/8" bowl gouge and still have it. I have moved on to the Thompson gouges but there was nothing wrong with the BB. http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LX230.html

[Stephen Saar]

Thanks, the Penn State 3 for 50 deal is exactly what I wanted. Now if I could just turn the advice I get on this forum in to better turning skill as easily as this I would be set. :-)


-Stephen

[Paul Atkins]

I haven't learned as fast as I wanted --I wish it were that easy.

[Montgomery Scott]

I bought a couple P&N gouges from Lee Valley. They work quite nicely and have gotten good reviews and are not expensive. http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&cat=1,330&p=49138

[Chris Stolicky]

Yes, the BB's or a 1/2" Thompson.

The BB's are the best bang for the buck and you don't feel as bad grinding them down. It won't be long and you will be buying Thompsons.... ;)

[Roger Bullock]

I learned a long time ago that when you buy a cheap tool, you pay for it twice. Once when you buy it and again when you replace it with the good tool. Save yourself some money now by going ahead and spending the extra 15 or 20 bucks and get the good tools. Just purchased the Thompson 1/2 V-gouge. Awesome tool and a joy to work with. His website has good information on maintaining the edge. Read his Q & A page.

[Richard Madison]

A few years ago I got the set of three BB bowl gouges. I found the V shape a bit too extreme and difficult (for me) to control. Have reground the 3/8 into a sort of detail gouge and never use the other two. Single best and most versatile bowl gouge might be the 1/2" V Thompson.

[Frank Van Atta]

I learned a long time ago that when you buy a cheap tool, you pay for it twice. Once when you buy it and again when you replace it with the good tool. Save yourself some money now by going ahead and spending the extra 15 or 20 bucks and get the good tools. Just purchased the Thompson 1/2 V-gouge. Awesome tool and a joy to work with. His website has good information on maintaining the edge. Read his Q & A page.

Let's see . . . set of 3 Benjamin's Best gouges (which everyone who has them, including me, seems to like and agrees that they last for years) for $51.85 - VS - same 3 Thompson's gouges @ $45, $55, and $80 each for a total of $190 without handles . . .

Gosh, I don't know if I can ever make a decision . . .

[Roger Bullock]

Sorry if I touched a nerve there Frank. Stephen's original post mentioned he was looking for a bowl gouge in the $50 range. The Thompson 1/2 V-gouge is $65, so if my math is correct that is only $15. As for the cost of making your own handle, this can be easily turned from any old hickory, oak, maple, or whatever limb you can find laying around. Turning your own handle lets you experiment with different styles at no more cost than a little time on the lath, and isn't that what we are all about, a little time on our laths?

[Dolan Brown]

BB's are great for the price. I have one and have 2 Sorby's. I like the BB's just as good as the Sorby's and there is a big price spread. Luckly I got a good deal on the Sorby's or I would not have them. But I also really like the Thompson tools and plan to buy more when the need arises and the $$ are available.

[Frank Van Atta]

Not a nerve, Roger. It's just that I can't understand the fascination of "name" tools at ever higher prices when many of the cheaper ones work just as well. Didn't mean to sound like a tool bigot. My primary focus is usually to get the most bang for my buck - something that is also usually important to beginning turners.

[Rob Holcomb]

I just bought the 3 bowl gouge set of Benjamin's Best tools from Penn State. The reason I went that route instead of a higher priced gouge is I'm in the same boat as you. I'm learning! When I bought my lathe, I went to harborfreight and picked up a set of their spindle tools. They weren't very sharp out of the box but usable. I bought a Wolverine sharpening jig and there's a learning curve their too! So my HF tools are not sharpened the best and ground down more than they should have been to make them usable. I figure that when I know what the heck I'm doing, I'll buy the higher priced tools but until then, if I'm going to do something wrong or ruin a tool, I want to say "Oh well, lesson learned" rather than "CRAP! I just ruined a big money tool"

[Gordon Seto]

No tool can make a better turner. You are going to hold the tool free hand. With a fingernail grind bowl gouge, using various parts of the edge, push or pull cuts, scraping or shear scraping; lifting, lowering, swinging or rotating the handle would have lots of combination. The tool grind has to go hand in hand with how you present the cutting edge to wood. Various flute shape also affect how the tool would behave.
IMO, if one has to worry about grinding the steel away, there is still a long learning curve ahead.
It would be better to find a local turning club and get some hands-on. The $20 membership would be a better bang for the buck.
Using a grind jig, recognizing what the correct grind should be should take no longer than 10 minutes. Most importantly how to present that particular grind in turning. Seeing the curly shavings flies is more fun than white knuckling, fearing for the next catch.
Ruining a bowl blank may cost you more than a good bowl gouge.

[Ralph Lindberg]

I learned a long time ago that when you buy a cheap tool, you pay for it twice. Once when you buy it and again when you replace it with the good tool. Save yourself some money now by going ahead and spending the extra 15 or 20 bucks and get the good tools. Just purchased the Thompson 1/2 V-gouge. Awesome tool and a joy to work with. His website has good information on maintaining the edge. Read his Q & A page.

Roger, while I agree with you in part, you are forgetting something important.

When you are first learning to turn, you are also learning to sharpen. Which means grinding off steel, sometimes lots of it, learning to get the right shape

Which makes more sense, wasting expensive steel, or cheap steel

(I own BB gouges, and reccomend them, but they are in no way as good a steel as my better tools)

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Have you bought a sharpening jig? To me that is the key. If you do have a sharpening jig, then get the Thompson gouges. If you're learning to free hand sharpen then get the cheaper tools. IMO, buy a jig of any sort and the Thompsons. Skip the medium priced gouge. Once you have a jig the tool steel waste is minimized.

[Stephen Saar]

Thanks for all the replies, didn't expect to get this much response. I guess I should give a little more detail.

I currently have the wolverine grinding jig, and I've set it up with my grinder and I've been practicing on that, but I need to fine tune my grinder set up some more because I'm not getting a good edge on my tools, and I've worn down my cheap HF tools by using a bad setup the first time, so I want to get everything setup and have a known good before I start grinding away on nice things. I've taken some classes and I learned a lot, but I still have some more to learn. Unfortunately I don't really have the time right now to go to more classes to learn more, so I'm just learning on my own. Probably not the best way possible, but I enjoy learning on mine own even if I learn slower, or make mistakes. The journey of learning is often times what I really enjoy, even if it's not the fastest or best way to do something.

Thanks again for all the responses.

Also does anyone know of somewhere that still sells 8" slow speed grinders as a single unit? Woodcraft has a slowspeed grinder for sale but it only comes as a whole woodturning kit. They used to sell the grinder by itself, but they don't seem to do that anymore.

-Stephen

[Joe Van Norman]

Thompson's site has a good analysis on getting better tools vs cheap tools while learning how to sharpen. By his calculation you may use up $5 worth of the tool learning to sharpen, but then you have a high quality tool and the sharpening skills.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Since you have the Wolverine, I'd get the Thompson V gouge(s). 1/2" is a good one to pick if you get only one. He has info on how to set up the jig to duplicate his grind. His stock grind is a very versatile grind, If you don't like it you can change it, but it's a great start...... They come sharp, so you can give his grind a try.
As mentioned by several others, they're not a whole lot more expensive than the medium priced gouge, and you get to make your own handle. He has info on handles on his site too. After using a Sorby for a while, I would highly reccomend them, vice getting the medium priced gouges. Or the more expensive ones......:(

[Justin Stephen]

Also does anyone know of somewhere that still sells 8" slow speed grinders as a single unit? Woodcraft has a slowspeed grinder for sale but it only comes as a whole woodturning kit. They used to sell the grinder by itself, but they don't seem to do that anymore.


You should be able to find variable speed 8" grinders at lots of places. I picked up a Porter Cable model at Lowes that seems ok, although I have had a very hard time getting my new 120 grit wheel to spin completely true.

[Richard Madison]

Good points by Kyle in both his posts. You can set up the sharpening jig to follow (for example) the original grind on your new Thompson gouge by simply fiddling with it with the grinder OFF. I had to do quite a lot of this when making my home made sharpening jigs. Match the nose angle and swing the tool side to side. Keep adjusting until the wheel matches the grind all the way around. Remember any settings that got you to that point.

Does anyone make a distinction between "grinding" and "sharpening"? To me grinding is changing the tool shape by changing the bevel angle and/or the shape of the flutes/wings. Sharpening is just a few very light passes of the existing grind in order to renew the sharp edge.

[Callie Ledrich]

Penn State Industries are so affordable that I purchased one of every set they have. I figured with all the shapes, I might find the one I need to use. You can't hardly go wrong with their M2- High speed steel. Even burning the end doesn't seem to effect them.. The only thing missing are a set of detail gouges. :o

[Reed Gray]

As far as the 'value' of the Thompson tools, consider that it is the same steel as the Glaser tools which with their handles are about 3 times the cost. Sounds pretty good to me.

As to wearing the tool out on the grinder, if you sharpen with a 60 grit wheel, you can wear it out sooner than you do with an 80 or 120 grit wheel. My first Ellsworth signature gouge lasted me about 2 years before it was a nub. I now have finer wheels, and most of my gouges will outlive me, but I still by some once in a while. The Thompson are a lot harder than the M2 steel and will grind away a lot slower.

robo hippy

[Harlan Coverdale]

Not a nerve, Roger. It's just that I can't understand the fascination of "name" tools at ever higher prices when many of the cheaper ones work just as well. Didn't mean to sound like a tool bigot. My primary focus is usually to get the most bang for my buck - something that is also usually important to beginning turners.

I've owned the BB gouges, and they were OK, but I gave them away after getting started using Thompson gouges. It has nothing to do with the name, but everything to do with how long the edge lasts. Less time at the grinder = more time making money at the lathe = more bang for the buck IMHO.

My advice would be to save some money in the long run and just buy the Thompson gouges from the start. With the Wolverine and especially with a bit of hands-on mentoring from a local club, you won't be wearing them down for a long time to come.

[Karl Card]

if you are looking for a roughing gouge then I would also suggest doing a search here on the forum. Woodcraft sells one for 126 that has a 4 sided head. I absolutley love it but then another person here on the forum listed an address where someone is making them for 50 bux shipped... that is a deal. The heads go for 13 dollars at WC but online you can get a box of them for around 20... They are also carbide heads and very, very sharp... I was able to eat thru a very knotty and figured piece of claro walnut with out ripping anything, just cut thru it and it came out slick as glass...

It eats wood that is all I can say... maybe someone else will chime in here and give the missing info..

[Harlan Coverdale]

if you are looking for a roughing gouge then I would also suggest doing a search here on the forum. Woodcraft sells one for 126 that has a 4 sided head. I absolutley love it but then another person here on the forum listed an address where someone is making them for 50 bux shipped... that is a deal. The heads go for 13 dollars at WC but online you can get a box of them for around 20... They are also carbide heads and very, very sharp... I was able to eat thru a very knotty and figured piece of claro walnut with out ripping anything, just cut thru it and it came out slick as glass...

It eats wood that is all I can say... maybe someone else will chime in here and give the missing info..
You're describing the Easy Wood Tools Ci1 Easy Rougher. It's not a roughing gouge, it's a scraper with a 4 sided carbide cutting tip. It does work very well for roughing and it can also make a presentable finishing cut in many cases. The carbide insert from Easy Wood Tools is not the same as the ones you can get for $20 per box. They are sharper and produce a better cut. I've used the Ci1 tool and I've used knock offs with similar looking cutters, but the copies didn't cut nearly as good as the original IMO.

[Cathy Schaewe]

It appears my 2 cents aren't needed, but FWIW, I bought the BB gouge when I started turning 3 months ago. A month and a half ago I bought 1 thompson gouge, two weeks later I bought another, and now I'm looking to get rid of the BB because the Thompsons are so much better. Sharpening lasts longer, and they just have a better feel (to me, anyway). I'm still using the BB roughing gouge, parting tool, and round nose scraper, though.

I got a Delta 8" slow-speed grinder off e-pay for $89, including shipping. I'm sure others have gotten similar or better deals.

Stephen, if you want my BB bowl gouge, barely used, just pm me and I'll make you a heck of a deal. However, I still think you're better off with a thompson. You'll never look back.

[Justin Stephen]

Let me preface by saying that I am a very new turner so my experience so far is probably the result of me not knowing what I am doing.

When I got my lathe a couple of months ago I bought a bunch of stuff at Woodcraft because PSI was backordered on the BB toolsets. With that, I bought Sorby 3/8" and 1/2" bowl gouges and have been learning to sharpen (using Wolverine jig) and turn with those. I feel like I am getting a decently sharp edge on those tools.

I recently picked up a 5/8" BB gouge for doing roughing. I cannot, for the life of me, seem to get a nice sharp edge on that tool. My 1/2" Sorby gouge chews through wood so much more easily than the BB gouge.

Again, this is based on the very limited experience of a newbie. I have been very happy with the other stuff I have gotten at PSI.

[Edward Bartimmo]

Don't waste your money on knock-offs or one-offs. There are some great tools from respected manufacturers that are within your price range. Why buy a Pinnacle or Woodriver set (Woodcraft knock-off) when you can buy a Henry Taylor, Crown, Hamlet, Sorby, etc. By the way, Craftsupply has all of its Henry Taylor tools on sale 15% off which includes their M2 hgih speed steel and Kryo steel.

Other than a tool from a specialty toolmaker, you will be hard pressed to beat a Henry Taylor. I started out with a Henry Taylor 3/8" bowl gouge, 3/4" roughing gouge, parting tool, and round nosed scraper. Although my tool collection has expanded dramatically, I still reach for these same tools today. The M2 Superflute 3/8" Bowl Gouge (1/2" diameter shaft) is $46.74.

Good Luck and enjoy

[Terry Gerros]

Craft Supply has a 15% discount on all Henry Taylor tools until the end of May. An excellent deal for an excellent quality tool. 3/8" bowl gouge with ash handle is 39.00, a 1/2" bowl gouge with ash handle is 50.00, these are the discounted prices.

[Karl Card]

I wonder if i am missing something here... I keep hearing people talking about grinding there tools... I never grind mine, nor do I have a need to. I do hone them however and this keeps them plenty sharp to take your hair off...