Phillips or Square Drive Screws

[Jim Rimmer]

I am rearranging my shop and looking at screw storage and am also runnig low on screws. So the questions arises, after looking at McFeely's, do you use Phillips or Square Drive Screws?

[Cody Colston]

Both, plus even slotted screws on occassion.

[Chuck Isaacson]

I personally have become a big fan of Torx head screws. It is all that I buy anymore. I just got tired of stripping out the Phillips. Squares are nice but still strip out more than Torx. I can put them in and pull them out anytime.

[Ray Newman]

Let's see: Phillips, square, Torx, & slotted.

[Art Mulder]

Robertson all the way!

In fact, I often discard the phillips screws that get included with hardware or other items, and substitute robertson screws that I have purchased.

...art

ps: similar poll back in 2006 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=305413) was 51% in favour of Robertson.
and also back in 2005 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=16848) which had 70% preferring Robertson.

[Lee Schierer]

I can't answer your survey because I use both. I prefer Philips over slotted and use square drive when I have a lot of screws to put in with a power driver.

[Chris Padilla]

I prefer rounded-off philips...much more challenging tightening them and loosening them.... :D

[Chuck Isaacson]

I prefer rounded-off philips...much more challenging tightening them and loosening them.... :D

Gotta love the wise guy!!! I think there is another term for that too.. I think that you as a moderator would ban me from the site as well...

[Chris Padilla]

Gotta love the wise guy!!! I think there is another term for that too.. I think that you as a moderator would ban me from the site as well...

You have the perfect attitude to be a mod, Chuck! ;) hahaha

[Chris Padilla]

Anyway, back on topic:

I'm with Lee: I use both but I do have more screws with Philips than Square. All my pocket screws are square and some wood screws I have can take both drives.

[Karl Brogger]

Torx for almost everything but faceframe screws. I don't even know why phillips is still available.

[Paul Ryan]

I buy phillips when ever possible, because I have phillips bit everywhere that is not the case with square drive. Personally I like torx the best, but they are expensive and I am too cheap to stock up on bits.

Mcfeely's makes nice screws personally I wish they weren't square. I honestly don't believe square are any better as far a stripping goes. Torx are better, but I don't think square are. What I do like about square is you can put the bit in the screw and it will stay attached with out holding the 2 together, unlike a phillips.

[Mitchell Andrus]

How is Robertson different from square drive?

Or is this just the Canadians taking a swipe at us down south for being so..... all feet and inches?
.

[glenn bradley]

Square whenever possible. Phillips and slot screws are only used when decorative; usually brass. I keep steel screws that are the same size as the decorative brass ones to pre-thread the holes to avoid breaking the soft brass screws.

[Charlie Plesums]

I stock square/philips combo, used with a square driver. I have never stripped a square drive or combo with a square bit. I primarily use screws where the user might want to loosen/tighten/adjust, and nobody seems to have a square driver, but everyone has a Philips. Whether they will succeed with a Philips driver or not is their problem, but they are happy.

[Fred Perreault]

Whether using square, phillips or whatever, I find all too many generally available wood screws to be of poor quality, from the driving head, to the sharp tip. It is a rarity that one can find a quality wood screw regularly. I don't know about other vendors, but McFeely's has consistently high quality fasteners. General jobber screws require care in installing to avoid breakage. One can be less precise with a pilot hole, and with torque, when using any higher quality wood screw, especially square or torx head drives. I can't remember the last time I assembled anything with nails. If you don't "screw up" the drive end, you can always disassemble screws.

[Tony Bilello]

I use mostly Phillips but I do like square head better, I just never stocked up on them.
I haven't tried Torx yet but it does sound enticing. I will have to find a place locally to buy Torx head and experiment.
I think Jim has the right idea about going to only one style. It can get expensive stocking up from ground zero but I think I am ready to do it. As soon as I try out some Torx heads first.

BTW, I always felt that slotted screws should be made illegal. Between scratched furniture and torn up fingers, I find it hard to believe that they still manufacture them.

[mark kosse]

Amen brother!

[Steve Griffin]

Some of most well equipped shops will sometimes have the most frustrating arrangement of fasteners.

I have 2 rules:

1) Keep phillips or flat head screws as far away from my shop as possible. (though they are unavoidable sometimes with certain hardware).

2)Never keep them in a bag. Either little plastic totes, or clearly labeled bins or even boxes or jars, but my goal is to never ever spend a minute of my life rummaging around with unlabeled paper bags of screws.

And while I'm at it, I propose we sign a petition to put Allen in jail for life, whoever he is. Just tonight I had yet another Allen head set screw get stripped on a hole saw, and once again, the hex key/allen screw curse strikes. Probably the single biggest cause of frustration and mechanical problems in my shop are these worthless little screws.....

-Steve

[Brian Penning]

Been noticing more of the combo phillips/square screws. But notice also that they have a different thread pattern. Seems to be coarser (threads are wider apart).
Dunno if it makes any difference though.

[Cody Colston]

Mcfeely's makes nice screws personally I wish they weren't square. I honestly don't believe square are any better as far a stripping goes.

I'm of the same opinion. Both Phillips and square drive require plenty of force against the screw to prevent slippage and I haven't noticed square drive being any more reliable than Phillips head if the correct bit is used.

For appearances, especially on furniture, the slotted screw is much more attractive and traditional than either Phillips, Torx or Robertson/Square drive. The caveat with them is that they have to be driven with a screwdriver vs a power drill....an inconvenience, I know. ;)

[Jim Becker]

I use Robertson/square-drive almost exclusively...

[Glen Butler]

I wont buy regular brass grabbers anymore. I used to get GRK fasteners torx head grabbers from my nail salesman. They were $150 per case. Thankfully they are getting a new brand now that is half the cost per case and works pretty much the same. Can't recall the brand currently. I use square drive for my face frame screws. I'd take square drive over phillips anyday. I wish slotted would just die, but they still get made.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I prefer rounded-off philips...much more challenging tightening them and loosening them.... :D

Ok - now there's a splatter of red wine on the monitor. I'm gonna find you and get even, Chris. :cool:

[george wilson]

If I'm hanging shelves,3" or 4" square or Torx deck screws are the easiest to drive.

I would only use slotted screws on anything traditional,though.

[Chip Lindley]

ANYTHING but SLOTTED!! I vented my frustrations throughout the 60's and 70's, trying to drive slotted screws with a flat blade mounted in a VS 3/8 drill. I just threw away big peanut butter jars full of #8 and #10 slotted wood screws. They are useless. But, I do reserve the right to use brass slotted screws on chests with fine brass hinges!

Square drive for faceframes and trim screws! Phillips for most everything else! Drywall screws are hard to beat for garden-variety fastening! They're cheap and plentiful! Drill pilot holes and change bits often.

[Mike Heidrick]

Man I love Kreg screws. Voted square. Torx rocks though.

[Chris Parks]

I always reckoned square drive to be better than Phillips in the driver slipping until I bought a C12 Festool drill. The phillips drivers that came with that are a revelation in not slipping at all. Maybe a lot of problems are poor driver quality, getting quality drivers is an issue though most are junk compared to the Festool ones which cost 3 arms and a couple of legs.

[Don Morris]

I've never tried Torx. Someone said they're a little expensive so I guess it depends on the cost ratio. How much better than square drive could they be? I'm with Jim Becker, I use square drive almost exclusively. McFeely's makes an excellent quality product. I love the fact I can hold the screw in just about any position and it won't fall off the bit. Some day "Square hole" will look just as good as "Phillips head" or "Slotted" to the traditionalist. In fact it should be a sign of quality!

[Thomas love]

Before the advent of the cordless impact I was partial to square drives. Since I have purchased the impact driver It has eliminated the need for square drives as it dose not cam out like a standard driver /drill when using philips.
Has anyone else noticed this?
Tom

[Brian Penning]

I always reckoned square drive to be better than Phillips in the driver slipping until I bought a C12 Festool drill. The phillips drivers that came with that are a revelation in not slipping at all. Maybe a lot of problems are poor driver quality, getting quality drivers is an issue though most are junk compared to the Festool ones which cost 3 arms and a couple of legs.

I agree.
Some drivers fit nice and snug into the screw heads while others don't. The long bit for my Kreg pocket hole kit is my best one.

[Ken Shoemaker]

Framing nail, stapels, duct tape and glue... Screws will never catch on....:rolleyes:

[Curt Harms]

Before the advent of the cordless impact I was partial to square drives. Since I have purchased the impact driver It has eliminated the need for square drives as it dose not cam out like a standard driver /drill when using philips.
Has anyone else noticed this?
Tom

If ya gotta use borg screws..... noisy li'l critters though :rolleyes:. I don't think I've cammed out a phillips screw since getting mine. I'm no fan of slotted screws but if I gotta use 'em one of these screw holders helps http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B000TQ4WG8/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=228013&s=hi

along with the right size bit.

[John Coloccia]

re: camming out vs not camming out

Phillips cams out because it was designed to cam out. Reed and Prince, which looks a lot like phillips but isn't, will not cam out as readily with the appropriate driver. If you want something that looks like Phillips but won't cam out at all, look at Posidriv. I've twisted many posidriv heads off before I got the hang of driving them. Very solid.

I can't figure out for the life of me why on earth Phillips is still being used. It was designed to cam out in the early days of powered assembly lines. There was no torque control so the system was designed to cam out before damage to the driver or the workpiece would occur. There is just no good reason to keep using this monstrosity of a driver.

[Gary Muto]

Both, square when I can but I'll use slotted screws from my old stock if it's the right size and all I have.

[Paul Ryan]

Good phillips drivers have "teeth" on the sides of the bit. If you look at the bits on the sides of the ridges the maker will put "teeth" or little groves. Those help to reduces stripping greatly.

Going on three years ago I built 2 decks on my house. One out of green treated. I chose stanless screws for that that were sqare drive. After that fiasco I swore never again to use square drive screws. With in the 1st hour I had to stop drive the 30 min back to the store return all 25lbs of screws and buy phillips. I have since started using square drive but at a limited basis. The other deck I bought the materials from a different location and bought torx to build that one with. I cant remember the cost difference but the torx were really nice screws but were about 5X the cost of the phillips. Cheaper torx screws are comming out now, I have seen them at menards. But that scares me because I don't think torx screws made with cheap materials will be any better than phillips or square. I dont even include slotted because I hope I never see one again.

[Stephen Edwards]

I voted "other" because there wasn't an option for "both". Square is my preference.

[Lee Schierer]

I prefer rounded-off philips...much more challenging tightening them and loosening them.... :D

I'll save mine and send them to you so you can recycle them into your projects. Can you also use the ones with the drilled out heads? :rolleyes:

[Rod Sheridan]

How is Robertson different from square drive?

Or is this just the Canadians taking a swipe at us down south for being so..... all feet and inches?
.


Mitch, of course it's us taking a swipe at you:D.

Actually Robertson is the original manufacturer of the screw, and the company continues to manufacture them.

A true Robertson screw has a slight taper in the square socket, which if fitted to an accurately made screwdriver, holds on very tightly.

Sometimes they're hard to pull off by hand, they fit so snugly.

I have bought some "Square Drive" screws from the BORG, they don't fit properly, and don't seem to have the correct internal taper, or maybe no taper at all?

That may be due to low quality fasteners being sold, or perhaps "square drive" is really an inferior copy of Robertson screws.

Regardless if you buy a box of Robertson screws, and try them out with a proper Robertson bit, you'll be amazed.

Regards, Rod.

[Darnell Hagen]

I'm a Robertson man, all the way. When I ship over the border I include a bit or two, taped into a hole in the side of the crate. :)

Slotted screws are pretty much only good for period work.

Like John said, Philips are meant to cam out. They were designed to be installed by machine.

Robertson screws were designed to tighten up when torque is applied. They can be driven with the driver at an angle. They "stick" to the bit.

I've heard that square drive are different from Robertson, but I haven't seen them and can't find info to back that claim.

[Art Mulder]

How is Robertson different from square drive?

Or is this just the Canadians taking a swipe at us down south for being so..... all feet and inches?
.

Mitchell,

I cringe when people refer to Robertson bits as "Square" almost (almost, but not quite) as much as I cringe when people refer to Phillips as "Star" or "Cross" or some other shape-related adjective which is not the proper name.

Call me picky.

Or call me a Canuck taking a swipe at you down south folks... ;)

...art

[george wilson]

I must have put at least 400' of shelving into my new shop,and more into my wife's jewelry shop on the 2nd. floor. I used 3" or 4" screws. At my age,trying to hold a bit into phillips head screws,that I didn't drill a pilot hole for(hate ruining my good drills in plasterboard!) was a hassle. I was also on a ladder. The square head,and Torx were so much easier on my carpal tunnel. I think I had to go to Home Depot to get them. IIRC,Lowes didn't stock them,or didn't have a decent assortment. I may be remembering wrongly,though. Several years ago.

[Karl Card]

once i got turned onto square drive, phillips does not have a place in my shop.

[Chris Padilla]

I'll save mine and send them to you so you can recycle them into your projects. Can you also use the ones with the drilled out heads? :rolleyes:

I dunno, Lee, if you can strip a Philips head like *I* can. I'm quite good at it and I do it in a very repeatable way. I'm sure trying to use Lee Schierer stripped out Philips head would be a lesson in futility.... I like a challenge, mind you, but I need a glimmer of hope.... :D

[Tom Adger]

square drive is good, but for my money the best is star(or torx) drive.

[Glen Butler]

Mitchell,

I cringe when people refer to Robertson bits as "Square" almost (almost, but not quite) as much as I cringe when people refer to Phillips as "Star" or "Cross" or some other shape-related adjective which is not the proper name.

Call me picky.

Or call me a Canuck taking a swipe at you down south folks... ;)

...art

I do the same thing when people refer to CA (Cyanoacrylate) as super glue. To me super glue is the cheap crap you pick up in a little tube at the grocery store. CA, is the good stuff.

[Paul Ryan]

I used some kreg face frame screws again last night. Those are good screws as well. I don't mind using those. I think they are the true robertson/square dive. They taper and stick to the bit nicely. If all square drive worked like that I would use those exclusively.

[Jeremy Thompson]

Which screws from McFeeley do you guys use? Link?

They have a ton of screws and I just don't know enough about them to know which ones to get. They have Brass, Stainless, Auger type all sorts! lol

Just looking for something for general wood indoor application.

[Ramsey Ramco]

Torx for most, Square for assembling cabinets and face frame phillips very rarley and never slotted.

[Jack Clark]

I've been using some Torx head screws from these folks. Love em!

http://www.screw-products.com/

They even throw in some "free" bits when you order one of their assortment kits.

[David Helm]

Been using Robertson for years. Would never buy a screw from BORG; in fact, would never shop at BORG. I do support my LOCAL businesses. Occasionally use Torx, but find that most of their shanks are weak. I buy bits for my drill driver by the thousand.