#23 Ebony and Ivory

[John Keeton]

OK, it isn't ebony....it's sugar maple. And, well.......it isn't ivory either, it's holly. I am not happy with this one - more about that later.
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5 5/8" wide x 3 3/4" tall to the top of the form, plus another 3" of finial. The finial measures 7/64" at the thinnest part of the shaft.The walls are 3/16", save for the bottom, which is probably 5/16". The inside was sanded to 400, with BLO and shellac. I am pleased with the finish - inside. The side/end grain is not quite as smooth as the rest, but it feels good. More about the finish later.

The sugar maple I got from Baxter Smith in a wood exchange we just did. Thanks, Baxter!! His uncle cut and split some maple and ash for Baxter in the early 1990's, when he bought an old lathe. Needless to say, it was dry!

The holly came from Mike Smith, one of my regular wood pushers! I bought some synthetic ivory to use on this one, but turning that stuff was a nightmare. The holly turned like a dream.

Now - the reason for my dissatisfaction. As you can see, the finial is not yet glued. This was my first attempt at using color on a turning, and I am not satisfied with the result. I used shoe dye, and it looked fairly good after the first coat of lacquer.
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The brush on lacquer picks up the dye, and makes it very difficult to use together. I buffed out the first coat of lacquer with 0000, and got a couple of light areas.

So, I played with it a little with some more dye, another coat of lacquer, etc. I should have left well enough alone!:mad::mad: It ended up looking much worse. The pics show this a little, but not fully. I also ended up with a little splatter on the rim.

I am probably going to redo the finish on this one, and it may end up not looking at all what I wanted. But, I am not happy with it the way it is, so I have to do something.

Also, I did not have enough thickness for a medallion in the bottom of this one, so I will get a white paint pen and number and sign this one - either after I fix the finish, or totally screw it up!

Thanks for looking, and feel free to comment - either way! Anything could be changed at this point - even the finial!!:confused: Heck, I may spray paint it gold!!:eek:

[Karl Card]

well john besides the color situation i like the form or shape of the item.

If you dont mind me asking where in central ky do you live?

[Kevin J Lalonde]

While it's not a "Keeton". I do like the form and the finial. Dont care for the shoe paint much though. What about an ebony stain as an alternative? Nevertheless it's still nice! Good luck with finishing it!

[Paul Atkins]

Shading lacquer (even hand made) should take care of that. Nice shape. Ain't life grand?

[John Tomasello jr]

Wish I had your talent, nice form. The newest woodturning design spring 2010 has a article on ebonizing wood

[charlie knighton]

But, I am not happy with it the way it is


its very nice, but keep reaching

i have used liquid shoe dye, a black liming wax (solid shoe polish), and a sealer with good results

[Bob Bergstrom]

Beautiful job. John Your creativity is awesome. Keep up the great work and thanks for sharing it with us

[Bernie Weishapl]

Beautiful piece John. Really nice form and finish.

[gary Zimmel]

Great job again John. They just keep on rolling off your lathe.
I really like the form and the finial.

Another fine example of your talent.....

[Steve Schlumpf]

John - you and I have already talked about the turning - but I like Paul's idea of coloring the lacquer. I haven't worked with lacquer enough to know the best way to color it - so maybe drop Paul a PM and see what he suggests.

This is a great form! I hope you can get the finish the way you initially envisioned it! Best of luck!

[Mark Hubl]

John,

Ok shape and finial. I have been playing with ebonizing techniques for a couple of months now. Just yesterday another piece went to the firewood pile. I have yet to find a black I like and can rely on.

Next piece.

[Tony De Masi]

John, while I do like the form on this I will admit that I don't care for the finish. It's not just your finish though. I personally don't care for any of the dyed pieces I've seen except one, and that was by Steve S. On the other hand it's not mine so I say keep on experimenting until you get it the way YOU want it.

Tony

[Steve Mawson]

I like the form and size but me being me I can not get my mind around that color. Otherwise it looks to me to be another great Keaton piece. First one without the medallion so perhaps it may have a special place????

[Prashun Patel]

Nice work...again!
I've never finished anything turned, but if you WANT to make it black, you might consider the following (this is only from very limited experience):

If the shoe 'dye' is really a pigment stain, you might get better mileage from an aniline dye. While dyes tend to provide better grain clarity in lighter shades, even in black, they tend to 'muddy' things less than their pigmented counterparts, which ultimately can look like a bad paint job.

Then I'd shoot it with shellac. I wouldn't rub it on, since that will lift the dye too. After you have the barrier coat of shellac, your lacquer should rub or spray on fine.

Also (and this is purely subjective), I think that piece begs for a semigloss or gloss finish. Looks formal to me.

[Frank Van Atta]

I really like the shape of this piece - it even looks good upside down.

For coloring black - I somehow don't like the term ebonizing unless we're talking about turning tannins black with acid - I have had good luck with India Ink. Let it dry, then spray lightly with shellac. Let that dry, sand lightly, and spray on another coat. By the time you get two coats on the ink is usually pretty well sealed in.

Otherwise, just use black spray paint and overcoat it with clear spray if desired.

[Gary Chester]

Now if you REALLY don't like it... put it back on the lathe and make that "last cut" that you're never supposed to do... :D

I like it, and I like the black. It's a great piece to play with finishing techniques.

I'll be interested to learn how you end up finishing the black, I'll have to try what ever you come up with.

[Mike Minto]

john, really nice form and i think the finial is cool. i like that you and others are displaying your efforts with different methods to color wood. i prefer it natural, mostly, but sometimes color can add alot to a turning. keep it up!

[John Keeton]

Thanks for all the input, and the comments!!

Like Mike, and several of you that have commented, I prefer wood in its natural state. But, as most of you have probably noticed, I am trying a lot of new ideas in the process of learning this spinny stuff! Some of them work - some, not so much!;)

This morning I removed the lacquer with thinner, and that left me with a form that is largely dark gray/black, with much of the grain showing. I probably won't have much time this evening, but I hope to even out the color some, and then try some tinted lacquer to see if I can get a somewhat transparent black - if that makes any sense!!:confused:

In the past, I have used India ink on a couple of things, but one should wet sand first, then use the ink. In this case, I think the grain is sealed and wet sanding may not work, or worse, work partially, and leave me a worse mess.

Spray paint is not an option, as I am trying to avoid the painted look. Ideally, a little grain shows evenly throughout, as it would with "ebonizing."

And, I may turn another finial, changing the proportions a little, and I may try to "whitenize" the finial - that would be sorta like ebonize 'cept with white!!:D Maybe this would qualify for a Wikipedia entry! For those that don't like "colored" wood, this will give you two reasons not to like this piece!;)

I will update with progress pics on this evolving project! Thanks, again, for sticking with me on this one - even if you don't like it!:D

[Mike Svoma]

John,

Try mixing some black transtint dye into your shellac before applying. Just an idea.

[Jim Slovik]

John,
As always......very nice. Not being happy with the finish has a bright side.......by the time you're done with it, you will know a whole lot more about finishes that if it came out perfect the first time.

[Curt Fuller]

I'm pretty late jumping in here. But I really the form, the finial, and the color combination. I've only done a very limited amount of coloring wood but most of what I've done has been black. I find it very hard to dye wood black. It's tough to get it consistent and not have any areas of natural wood show through. You almost have to use something opaque like india ink or even paint. And then to complicate things even more, if you go for any kind of gloss or semi gloss look, it seems to exaggerate any imperfections in the coloring. Every sanding scratch and grain variation seems to stand out like a sore thumb on black. And then photographing it even makes it worse. So inho you've done a pretty good job for a first attempt.

[Baxter Smith]

The shape looks great John! I prefer the look of the taller broadshouldered HF's. As for the color - interesting! The maple was pretty straightgrained so I am sure this livened it up. Hope you can come up with a satisfactory finish without too much grief but I think you are already past that point!:) If you need another piece....

I do remember one ash HF that was posted a couple of months ago that was blackened only on the outside with shoepolish. The grain stood out and was quite striking. I did send you a piece of Ash if you are inclined to perfect your technique.;)

[David E Keller]

Late to the discussion... I like the form a lot, and I like the finial as is... I don't think it needs any whitenizing.:D

I don't really care for the finish as is, but I'm at a loss for suggesting a sure fire remedy. The tiny bit of ebonizing I've done on maple has been with ink, and it has worked well. I fully appreciate and applaud your quest to stretch your artistic wings.

[Roland Martin]

John, I like the form and especially like the finial. This particular piece is giving you a hard time, just take a quick look back 3 - 4 months, at all you've accomplished. Not all that bad of a track record is it? Best of luck finishing this piece John.

[Roger Chandler]

We have a running joke here at our local woodturners club, about shoe dye.

We call it "West Virginia Ebony" because a couple of our more accomplished turners who hail from WVa. have used the dye to color finials on their hollow forms. Theirs turned out fabulous,on maple with a couple of coats of the dye, and then some lacquer finish.

Nothing at all wrong with your form, and your finial is beautifully shaped. John, I enjoy your work, as you show more skill and artistic prowess than your time turning would normally indicate.

[Brian Effinger]

Sorry I'm late to the party. It's been a long weekend working on the shop (aka basement).

I really like the form John. I think you got the proportions just right on the form, finial and both together. It's too bad about the finish. I haven't tried ebonizing anything (not as brave as you) so I can't offer any advice on that part, but will be watching to see if you can recover this one.

I wonder what would happen if you were to try sanding it off?

[Mark Burge]

That's a nice form John. I have also started to want to use something to "ebonize" and "whitenize" I will look forward to updates on your experimentation so maybe I can "Keetonize" in the future.

What ever part of KY your are in, Go Cats! (UK '89)