question about repairing spiers infill

[michael craigdallie]

here is the plane that i bought (from ebay).

145087

this what i received (we can ignore for now the fact that i description of the item read "Spiers Ayr Coffin Plane in good condition....Wooden front knob has old repaired crack but is solid.")

145082

i am on the west coast of canada. the plane came from england if that has any relavance and i am going to assume that it was damage came in the transport (it took a long while for me to get it so presumably somebody rowed it over) either from the "adequate" packaging or possibly the huge moisture swings?

So (assuming i uploaded these photos correctly) my question is how is the best way to repair this plane as i do really want to keep it. it is not for a collection i plan to use it.

i read on Handplane Central that some early spiers infills were constructed from two pieces
the split in the front is a break in the wood but the rear is definitely broken on a glue line.

am i correct in assuming that the glue used to put the rear tote together has hide glue? would it be an unforgivable sin to repair with epoxy?

thank you kindly for you time,
michael

[Casey Gooding]

epoxy sounds good. Looks like the infill might be ebony or some other exotic so be sure to wipe it down with lacquer thinner or acetone before you glue it up.

[george wilson]

I have exactly that model plane. The infill is rosewood,possibly Brazilian.

[David Gendron]

+1 on using epoxy, It look like a nice plane. Do you have the iron? Is the mouth tight?
I would love an infill one day!

[Chris Vandiver]

Epoxy is awfully messy and requires a substantial glue line to be effective.
I would be inclined to use a PVA glue or Gorilla glue or it's equivalent. Great care must be taken to line up the blade ramp, while clamping it all together. And of course you need to keep everything pretty clean, which will be difficult with epoxy.

[george wilson]

Was the plane originally glued up with hide glue? It might be best to use a reversible glue.

I have another Spiers the same size, with a tote handle. It is riveted together.

[James Taglienti]

I would epoxy also. I'd thoroughly clean and score the unseen part of both mating surfaces with some 60 or 80 grit sandpaper (or if you want to go primitive, maybe an awl or something.) Then I'd really load in the epoxy, IE actually bed both parts with it. The most time consuming part would be completely eliminating any signs of squeeze out.

I thought that most infills had steel or iron rods through the infills securing them in place? Though I have never even handled a spiers.

While you have the wood out of it, maybe you could perform a thorough cleaning of the body if that's your thing. You know, take advantage of the situation.

I would avoid using PVA glue...

If you want to get real involved maybe use some burn in shellac to disguise the breaks.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Michael

Here are your choices:

You can try and glue it together, but you face an uncertain glue strength and difficulty lining up the bed. At the very least you will need to true up the bed with a float.

The alternative is to build a new infill. This will not be too difficult since you already have the old infill to use as a template.

The good news is that this Spier wasn't yours ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRestorations/Renovating%20an%20Infill%20Smoother1_doc_m188ac61d .jpg

The bad news is that it was mine!

I do have some tips for an infill rebuild, if you go down that road ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRestorations/Renovating%20an%20Infill%20Smoother1.html

It turned out like this (I had a little fun with this reno) ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Restoration/spier2.jpg

Hopefully George will post a picture of his.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[george wilson]

My Spiers tote infill is mechanically good. However,some old owner tried to decorate it with shallow carvings in the triangular area in front of the tote. I wish he hadn't.

So,I haven't done any doctoring up on it,and it isn't anything exceptional to look at.

The Spiers are VERY SOLID planes,though. I'm sure they will stand up against anything out there.

[David Keller NC]

Michael - It's rare to find an infill "in the wild" that was made by Norris, Spiers or Mathieson with 2-piece infills. They do exist, but they're not common. Part of the reason is that these companies existed from the mid to late nineteenth century to the early 20th, and getting large pieces of straight-grained brazilian rosewood was no problem. So I think the bad news is that the e-bay seller sold you a "bill of goods" regarding the rear infill.

From the standpoint of repair, I'd try dry-fitting the pieces back together. If you can get a nice tight joint line (i.e., the wood hasn't gained or lost substantial moisture since the break), then I'd repair it with epoxy. The joint will be far stronger than the wood and if you've a nice, tight fit, it won't be noticeable either.

If they won't fit back together perfectly, I'd still repair it with epoxy, and buy a planemaker's face float from Lie-Nielsen (and a triangular file - the floats don't come sharp enough to use from the factory) and use it to clean up the bed of the plane.

Then you need an iron. While just about any iron will work so long as it fits the opening, you will do yourself a tremendous favor by restoring the plane to it near original condition by buying a Hock blade especially made for infill planes from www.thebestthings.com

[Ray Gardiner]

Hi Michael,

You could have a look at Peter McBride's Spiers repair, maybe get some ideas as to how to proceed. http://www.petermcbride.com/plane_repair/

I think you will find that with the overstuffed coffin smoother the two piece construction is original. The ones with handles are three piece. The handle being morticed into the bottom infill. This was done for ease of production, not a shortage of suitable rosewood.

If the breaks are clean, then glueing back together with epoxy or, I hear good things about Loctite 454 Gell, Although I've not used it myself.

When restored, that will be a real joy to use. The Spiers coffin infill is my favourite style of smoother.

Should be good for another hundred years!

Regards
Ray

[Steve Elliott]

I have more than one Spiers plane with rear infills that are made of two pieces of rosewood just like yours. In fact, I believe they were done that way because it made it easier to get a good fit where the infill overhangs the side of the metal shell.

On one of the planes the hide glue has failed and it's on my to-do list to learn enough about hide glue to repair it in a "historically correct" way. On another plane I glued a broken bun back together using PVA glue with added pigment to make the color match the wood. After I did that I had some regrets, not because of any problem with the plane but just because some future user might need to do repairs.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Steve

Just to let you know that my Spier continues to work very well using one of the blades you kindly sent me. Remember?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Patrick J McCauley]

I am certainly no expert since I don't own any infill planes but my guess is that, as another member posted, the infill is probably Brazilian Rosewood. Since that wood is currently banned for sale (with very few exceptions), I would try to repair the infill using epoxy. I would rather have an original rosewood infill with a repair than use a new infill. I am guessing there are many who would disagree with me....

Regardless, If I were doing it I would first clean sand and finish a bit of the infill with shellac (or the finish of your choice) to get a look at what the final wood coloring would be then mix two or three small batches of epoxy trying to match the lightest color of the wood, the darkest, and perhaps an in-between color swirling them together or applying them in random drizzles mixed together to get the closest match to the colors you can. I am guessing you can mask the repair quite a bit if you experiment with a long open time epoxy before the repair.

One thing to note, oil finishes tend to mask the figure of Brazilian Rosewood, you may want to finish with blonde shellac or similar if the figure is good, if not oil will darken the color to near uniform in appearance.

Good luck and please show us pictures of what you decided to do.

Patrick

[C.R. Miller]

i am on the west coast of canada. the plane came from england if that has any relavance and i am going to assume that it was damage came in the transport

Most of the damage would have been there from the start, I think. Transporting it just would've been the final straw.


i read on Handplane Central that some early spiers infills were constructed from two pieces
the split in the front is a break in the wood but the rear is definitely broken on a glue line.

am i correct in assuming that the glue used to put the rear tote together has hide glue? would it be an unforgivable sin to repair with epoxy?

You are correct. The glue would've been hide glue, and there's no reason why you couldn't repair it again with hide. Just clean off the surfaces to get rid of loose debris before you glue. Epoxy would work as well, but it's overkill. The wood in this plane (Brazilian rosewood) is over 100 years old and is long past its "leaching point", so PVA would work fine as well. I repair most of the infills that pass by me with hide or PVA -- and I've lost count of how many I've done over the years!

Lining it up is not a big issue. Just be careful when doing it.

Tight cracks can be filled with superglue if needed. Filling can also be done with glue and wood dust, inks, colored waxes or a combination thereof. Cut grooves in the repair (if it is a big one) with a gouge, chisel or knife to "blend in" the variations in the figure if you want to achieve an invisible repair (though this takes practice of course). Always experiment until you get the desired effect.

[michael craigdallie]

thank you all for the god information. and thanks david for the tip about a new new hock iron from the best things (he doesn't list those on his web site). it did come with an iron but has less than half of an inch left.

i do want to keep the original rosewood so i will try my hand at repairing with hide glue. historically accurate and reversible(?) should something go horribly wrong. will post pictures when all is done.

thanks again, michael