How to resaw with an underpowerd bandsaw?

[mreza Salav]

I have a 14" 1HP Craftsman bandsaw, the one that is the clone the Rikon and got good reviews: http://www.sears.ca/product/craftsman-md-professional-8482-14-stationary-band-saw/09279600?ptag=1

I had used its stock (not so good) 1/4" blade and managed to resaw walnut up to its capacity (8"). Recently I got some better blades 1/2" and 5/8" for resaw. Eventhough I have spent quite some time in tuning it up, I cannot get a successful resaw on 6" maple using the fence: either the blade driffs or completely stalls the saw. Using the same setup I resawed a 6" wide baltic birch plywood and can easily get a consistent 1/16" thick veneer off of it. I did this test twice just before starting to resaw my maple stock to be sure it's going to work, but it ruined both pieces of maple I tried to resaw.

I am trying to figure out why the stock 1/4" blade could do a better job than the 1/2" or 5/8" blade? (at least on Walnut it worked Ok).

My guess is since I have to put more tension on the wider blades, it puts too much pressure on the motor and that's why it halts on hard maple (but cuts fine on BB plywood).
But what explains the drift? Is it the blade? is it the saw not tuned? but then why it works fine on BB plywood?! :confused:
My guess it all comes down to not enough power...

or not?

[Rick Fisher]

It depends..

When you said you got a 1/2" or 5/8" blade.. what tooth count did you get?

Typically 3 teeth per inch is ideal.

On a small saw, like a 14" .. you will need to ensure the blade is tensioned enough.. a 5/8" blade could be tough.. but a 1/2" blade should work..

A saw of that size should be able to resaw if your patient and use the right blade..

[Victor Robinson]

Hmmm, that sounds weird. I haven't tried hard maple yet on my 1HP Grizz, but I can assure you if I thought it wouldn't be able to handle resawing maple I never would have gotten it.

And if it turns out it can't, it will be gone!

I hope you're able to figure out what's going wrong.

[Tri Hoang]

It's either the blade or the feed rate. Just like hand saw, let the blade does the work.

[Thomas Williams]

I have an underpowered Delta BS and can resaw fairly well. I have the saw tuned up as good as I can and use a Wood Slicer 1/2 inch blade, tension and adjust for drift per instructions. I get decent results in maple and hickory although the feed rate is really slow.

[Myk Rian]

5/8" is too wide for a 14" BS.
How did you tension the blade?
Search for "Flutter method" here.

[Derek Stockley]

I've been sawing some maple lately on my 1HP GI 14" band saw. Trying to RIP 12/4 maple, I was stalling the saw every 10 seconds. It was driving me crazy. I found that the drive belt was slipping. Replaced the belt and adjusted the tension and that helped.

I've recently resawn both walnut and hard maple on that same saw. The saw laughed off the walnut. It only started giving me trouble with the maple.

[glenn bradley]

I'm curious about the phrase "1.0-hp max developed" and wonder what the amp draw is on that motor(?). That is really just curiosity as I could resaw on my 1/3HP C-man 12" with good results but the feed rate was about a half inch per second. No sarcasm. That was the feed rate the saw could support. So, assuming a well tuned saw;

- High quality, low tooth count blade (I ran 1/2" 2-3 blades from Suffolk Machinery [Timberwolf])
- Slow, steady feed rate (and this can be really slow if that is what is required)

If I were in a hurry (feeding fast enough to stop the machine is asking too much of it and will only become frustrating) I would run a shop-made knife fence and I could get over an inch per second feed rate but, much lower precision. I am sure this is because it put me into the equation more than a flat fence does. ;-) And my saw was very low powered.

[James Carmichael]

A true 1hp should be able to handle it with a decent quality 3tpi hook blade.

I seriously doubt the 5/8" blade is a factor, so long meets those criteria, and isn't over .025 thick.

As Glenn pointed out, your feed rate may be less than exciting.

If you have a good quality table saw and thin kerf blade, one trick I've read about is to cut a deep kerf on either edge of the board before resawing, this will cause the bandsaw blade to track in the kerf. Seems wasteful to me, though, and may not be an option for thin veneers.

Almost forgot: make sure the blade is tracked to the center of the top wheel. This should minimize drift.

[Phil Thien]

What brand of blades did you get?

[mreza Salav]

The blade is Tuff-tooth (Swedish silicon), both 1/2" and 5/8" blades are 3tpi and are .025 thick. The saw is supposed to support up to 3/4" blades. It has a tension indicator for different blades sizes which tells you if you have tensioned it enough.

Regarding the feed rate: as I said I don't have problem with walnut or softer woods, its the maple that gives me a hard time. I was resawing a 8/4 piece and I was going slow. One factor might be that the wood had enough tension in it that was binding the blade; Had to use a wedge to open it up from the back to take the blade out of it!

I ended up resawing it on my tablesaw with a thin kerf blades taking 3" from each side of the 6.5" board and doing the last 1/2" on the bandsaw.

[Larry Rasmussen]

Walnut is so sweet to cut and hard maple can just give any tool hell in my limited experience. So then make sure blade type is correct, see comments above. At this point you should be at the max capability of your saw and have a better chancre of success. Often re saw is about using what you already have but if you are buying more maple and Western maple is available and would work for you then it should slice right up.

Luck,
Larry Rasmussen,
Seattle

[William Falberg]

At the risk of offending everyone (again) I'll refer to my book on the subject setting forth the plethora of possible causes behind your difficulties. You'll no doubt get 100 opinions on how to fix your problem and a lot of them might be right but until you see the inter-dependent relationships between all the variables, in the context of a cutting solution, you still won't "get it" . The truth, if you really want to hear it, is that bandsawing is a difficult thing to master and it simply can't be taught through a series of bumper-sticker, random, statements by such a broad-based collection of contributors as these forums present. Not to "dis" anybody (indeed, much of what I've learned has come from here) but we all see the situation in a different light. I had to learn how to cut 16" and 18" of hard wood straight, every time, to satisfy my market and I had to do it with a 60 pound saw. Naturally, my cutting solutions are a foreign language to most folks on these forums, but it's a language you have to learn if you want to understand band saws and what makes them tick. So many basic tenets of bandsaw cutting are based on unfounded myths that such discussions almost always lead to anger and personal attacks. It IS frustrating. Call it self-serving because it is; I sell saws, and now I'm selling books, but I don't think it's "bad form" to reach out to my fellow woodworkers with first-hand observations based on my unique experience building band saws to cut big timbers. Resawing is really simple when you put the variables in their proper perspective, but first you have to separate the myths from the facts. That's why I keep "dissing" the myths and those who perpetuate them. I will continue to do so until someone proves me wrong, or the moderators "86" me. Sorry if my writing style is abrasive; I see this as pertinent to "making a living" for me, you, and the woodworking community in general. It's not "cricket". How does one say "You're wrong" in a nice way? Tell me and I'll start using it in future correspondence.

[Paul Girouard]

At the risk of offending everyone (again) I'll refer to my book on the subject setting forth the plethora of possible causes behind your difficulties.

How does one say "You're wrong" in a nice way? Tell me and I'll start using it in future correspondence.



William that was a long post that said nothing , so I'll ask,

What the title of your book?

What saw do you sell or recommend?

What HP is considered enough for re-sawing?

Whats the "silver bullet" to re-sawing, in 30 words or less? :D

[John Thompson]

Maple is one of the more diffcult species to cut on the BS but.. the fact you mentioned the stock was closing on the blade from internal tension release explains the saw bogging down and goes a long way toward explaining the drift. I got a piece of QSWO which is a breeze to re-saw that had more internal tension in it than I have ever seen in white oak. It gave my 18" saw fits until I simply chunked that particular board and moved on to the remaining 100 bd. ft. which was the normal breeze. That's life and I'm a realist! ;)

[Ray Newman]

"One factor might be that the wood had enough tension in it that was binding the blade; Had to use a wedge to open it up from the back to take the blade out of it!"

BINGO!

As another posted stated, that probably is 95%+ of the problem....

[William Falberg]

William that was a long post that said nothing , so I'll ask,

What the title of your book?
"Why My Bandsaws Are So Cool And Your Band Saw Sucks So Bad"

What saw do you sell or recommend?
Whatever saw fits your needs and budget. They're ALL good for something. The best saw is the one you built yourself.

What HP is considered enough for re-sawing?
1/10th HP (?) What are you cutting? How big is your machine?

Whats the "silver bullet" to re-sawing, in 30 words or less?
There IS no silver bullet. That's the point.

[Paul Atkins]

As with William I see a frustration at trying to 'fix' something online without a knowledge of what the 'victim' knows, has tried, his capabilities, and the ability to assess the situation. This is specially true with experts in the field and beginners with very little experience. The language is different and the "of course" and "aha" factors are different too. "bumper-sticker, random, statements by such a broad-based collection of contributors" I'm working on a good bumper sticker that says it all. It's also hard to tell someone they don't know what they are talking about without starting a fight sometimes which is where a bit of flexibility on each side comes into play. I'm starting to ramble. My 2 cents.

[Peter Quinn]

Uh, what they said. Pinching leads to bogging leads to stalling and burning. Maybe try it with a single point fence or freehand if you are comfortable with that.When the wood starts to release tension and bow, and it is held captive on one side by a tall fence, and it has a well tensioned blade buried in the middle of it, it tends to transfer the tension to the blade and push it off course, which just exacerbates the situation. Taking away the fence solves that part of the problem. Another possibility would be to use a fence but have your 'keeper" on the non fence side, at least for veneer slicing, not so useful for book matched panels. Sort of make your own driftmaster with a stop on the out board side of the table, keep moving the fence to the stop.

Or as you noted, the combo TS/BS method works well too. Walnut is like slicing butter, maple is like slicing ice. Ever try to slice ice? And 'stable' is not one of the words usually attributed to maple either. Another possibility when it starts pinching is to stop pushing, put a shim in behind the blade to open up the kerf (have a number of them ready) and then keep going. I've had 12" WO close up on a 20" saw with a 3HP motor enough to stop it cold. We usually do the shim thing with two guys, but if you have infeed/outfeed support, you can let go of the board, or stop the saw first possibly, and do it alone.

I doubt the saw is going to tension a blade wider than 1/2" very well which can lead to a wavering cut all else being equal, and I'd bet it will do better with a 3/8" blade in a 3-4TPI format, but I'm no expert here, by which I mean I haven't written a book. I'm just a guy with a 14" BS that likes to cut wood.

[William Falberg]

I think you just described the basic design of a fence system utilizing tall half-fences. You might be interested in the stub fence idea that follows, for its value in eliminating pinching, push-off, and snipe. There are drawings in the book to make your own.

"but I'm no expert here, by which I mean I haven't written a book. I'm just a guy with a 14" BS that likes to cut wood." Writing a book does NOT make one an expert. Many "guys with 14" bandsaws" know more about it than those who HAVE written books (including myself). In writing the book I learned from guys such as yourself more about the subject than I would otherwise have learned on my own. The writer just collects such insights as yours and passes it on to others. The written text provides a focal point for further debate. Like my saws, the book will undergo revisions until it can't be revised any more. Band saws, more than any other tool I know of, are long overdue for a fundamental evolutionary leap. The "old school" will resist but the changes are inevitable.

[Jason White]

Try a 3/4" blade with 3-4 TPI. Don't shove the wood through too fast or you'll heat up the blade and dull it quickly (been there, done that).

Also, make sure your motor belt is properly tightened or it can slip on the pulleys (a plastic link-type belt works much better than a rubber one, at least in my experience).

Jason



I have a 14" 1HP Craftsman bandsaw, the one that is the clone the Rikon and got good reviews: http://www.sears.ca/product/craftsman-md-professional-8482-14-stationary-band-saw/09279600?ptag=1

I had used its stock (not so good) 1/4" blade and managed to resaw walnut up to its capacity (8"). Recently I got some better blades 1/2" and 5/8" for resaw. Eventhough I have spent quite some time in tuning it up, I cannot get a successful resaw on 6" maple using the fence: either the blade driffs or completely stalls the saw. Using the same setup I resawed a 6" wide baltic birch plywood and can easily get a consistent 1/16" thick veneer off of it. I did this test twice just before starting to resaw my maple stock to be sure it's going to work, but it ruined both pieces of maple I tried to resaw.

I am trying to figure out why the stock 1/4" blade could do a better job than the 1/2" or 5/8" blade? (at least on Walnut it worked Ok).

My guess is since I have to put more tension on the wider blades, it puts too much pressure on the motor and that's why it halts on hard maple (but cuts fine on BB plywood).
But what explains the drift? Is it the blade? is it the saw not tuned? but then why it works fine on BB plywood?! :confused:
My guess it all comes down to not enough power...

or not?

[Jason White]

Why?

Jason



5/8" is too wide for a 14" BS.
How did you tension the blade?
Search for "Flutter method" here.

[Myk Rian]

Why what? A 5/8" is too wide, or use the flutter method?


The blade is Tuff-tooth (Swedish silicon), both 1/2" and 5/8" blades are 3tpi and are .025 thick. The saw is supposed to support up to 3/4" blades. It has a tension indicator for different blades sizes which tells you if you have tensioned it enough.
The gauge on the saw is a reference point, at best. Use the flutter method to tension your blades, then put your own mark on the gauge.

[mreza Salav]

Thanks.

I think this board of maple I've got is harder than Rock and that's the problem.

As I said, tried doing 3" cuts on the table saw using a thin kerf Freud rip blade (in the 6.5" wide board). I managed to almost stall my 3HP ICS tablesaw!! :eek: WHAT?!! going slower and it started burning the wood and smoke coming out. Had to take 1.5" passes.

Going to planer taking 1/64" passes (on the 6.5" wide board) and my Dewalt planer wants to cry!! Im turning the handle only 1/6 of a turn or less for each pass. The blades are recently replaced and are sharp.

I guess this board wants to kill all my tools or I should move on to another board. Had never had anything like this.

[Lee Schierer]

I had a similar issue with my 14" 1 Hp Delta band saw. What I found was that the drive belt wasn't tight and it would slip when the going got tough. When I properly tensioned the drive belt it was like a new saw, suddenly it had plenty of power. I can now resaw 6" maple or red oak with no problems. I have the stock tension spring and a cheap 1/2" blade.

As far as drift goes, draw a line where you want to cut and use a resaw finger type guide to stay on the line. It makes life a lot more simple.

[Victor Robinson]

Thanks.

I think this board of maple I've got is harder than Rock and that's the problem.

As I said, tried doing 3" cuts on the table saw using a thin kerf Freud rip blade (in the 6.5" wide board). I managed to almost stall my 3HP ICS tablesaw!! :eek: WHAT?!! going slower and it started burning the wood and smoke coming out. Had to take 1.5" passes.

Going to planer taking 1/64" passes (on the 6.5" wide board) and my Dewalt planer wants to cry!! Im turning the handle only 1/6 of a turn or less for each pass. The blades are recently replaced and are sharp.

I guess this board wants to kill all my tools or I should move on to another board. Had never had anything like this.

Gift it to your arch-nemesis. Muhahaha!

I kid, I kid.

[Jason White]

My apologies in advance for being long-winded (I'm not usually)....

About a year ago, I found a 20-year-old 14" JET bandsaw rusting away in a dumpster -- seemingly abandoned by a job-site carpenter. I knew nothing about bandsaws at the time, but in the back of my truck it went (picture a "Charlie Brown" Xmas tree, but with a lot more rust on it! :D

Once I got it home, I soon discovered that I was in way over my head! The saw was missing a lot of parts, and the ones that weren't missing were either broken or needed upgrading (cracked trunnions, bad bearings, stripped bolt holes, damaged guides, surface rust, etc., etc.). However, the motor still ran so I took a deep breath and dove right into the deep end. :o

Several months and about $300-400 later, my "free" bandsaw now runs like a champ and has become my favorite tool!

The process of rebuilding that machine helped me gain an intimate knowledge about how bandsaws work. I did not read any books about bandsaws during that time, but instead learned "on the job" and also got great advice here from my fellow "Creekers!" In my estimation, my old clunker of a bandsaw is actually now better than a similar new machine (though probably not as pretty).

Long story short -- tearing apart a machine and putting it back together yourself is, in my opinion, the best way to learn about how it works and how to make it run properly! This was true when I was a teenager tearing apart bicycles and cars, and it's still true today.

Will you make mistakes along the way? Yes.

Will you spend more money fixing an old machine than if you bought a new one? Probably.

Is the knowledge you gain fixing an old machine worth the extra expense and frustration? Without question! ;)

Jason



As with William I see a frustration at trying to 'fix' something online without a knowledge of what the 'victim' knows, has tried, his capabilities, and the ability to assess the situation. This is specially true with experts in the field and beginners with very little experience. The language is different and the "of course" and "aha" factors are different too. "bumper-sticker, random, statements by such a broad-based collection of contributors" I'm working on a good bumper sticker that says it all. It's also hard to tell someone they don't know what they are talking about without starting a fight sometimes which is where a bit of flexibility on each side comes into play. I'm starting to ramble. My 2 cents.

[Jason White]

Why is 5/8" too wide for a 14" machine?

I ask because the 5/8" blade that I just purchased says "for resawing" on the box.

Jason




Why what? A 5/8" is too wide, or use the flutter method?


The gauge on the saw is a reference point, at best. Use the flutter method to tension your blades, then put your own mark on the gauge.

[Pete Bradley]

William, if your book is as wordy as your posts, it's not going to be very useful. Band sawing isn't mysterious and it isn't rocket science. Duginske's and Birds's books (both good and already on the market) have the basics covered concisely, plus a whole bunch of application chapters.

[Myk Rian]

Why is 5/8" too wide for a 14" machine?

I ask because the 5/8" blade that I just purchased says "for resawing" on the box.

Jason
There have been many people here advising against anything over 1/2" for a 14" BS. Tensioning larger blades is the main reason. I have a 1hp Delta w/riser that does a beautiful job with 1/2". A 1/4" works well for up to 4-5" stock.

[Norm Lincoln Sr.]

Precut with table saw ?

[Myk Rian]

Precut with table saw ?
I've done that with 12" stock. A thin kerf blade makes life a lot easier.

[Chip Lindley]

A 5/8" blade is meant for resawing, but successful installation on a small BS is *iffy*! A 5/8" blade really taxes the stiffness of any 14" bandsaw frame to withstand flex while tensioning the blade sufficiently. If the frame flexes, it can also twist, throwing the wheels and guides out of alignment. Capish?? Even worse with a riser block installed. Solid cast iron or welded steel is replaced with a mechanical connection which weakens the frame which is already longer (and more flexible) by six inches.

As said, the built-in tensioning gauge on a 14" BS is only a ballpark reference point. Considering the myriad blades of each width which could be installed, few, if any, would sync with the *gauge*.

Although a 3/4" blade can certainly be installed on the wheel, and within the guides, tensioning it properly may plainly not be possible. Some have succeeded; others have been lucky! Many suffer defeat.

[Jason White]

Sorry -- I meant to say 5/8" and not 3/4"... my bad.

I've used a 5/8" on my 14" bandsaw without problems, but then I'm not using a riser block.

Jason



Try a 3/4" blade with 3-4 TPI. Don't shove the wood through too fast or you'll heat up the blade and dull it quickly (been there, done that).

Also, make sure your motor belt is properly tightened or it can slip on the pulleys (a plastic link-type belt works much better than a rubber one, at least in my experience).

Jason