Carbon Steel/Thermark Question

[Karen Thompson]

Hi Guys

I've been asked to engrave some text onto a plasterers trowel for a retirement present. The customer has supplied me with the trowel and the packaging states it is made from "Carbon Steel".

Can anyone confirm to me if I would treat this like "normal" stainless steel and just use the Thermark on it?

Also is it of any benefit to leave the Thermark on the item for a period of time (eg 12hrs) before engraving (I have the spray on one) or does it not really matter?

Thanks everyone.

Karen

[Mike Christen]

Hi Karen
Never did a trowel but it should be the same as normal steel. With thermark I spray it on, let sit for maybe 5 min then engrave. Never heard of letting it sit for 12hrs.

[Ross Moshinsky]

Carbon steel is commonly known as mild steel. Mild steel and Stainless steel are similar but not the same. Without getting too technical, mild steel has more iron than stainless while stainless uses other more exotic materials to replace iron. Basically stainless is a fancy way of saying "rust resistant". It is also non-magnetic(for the most part).

With that all said, if you have a rotary machine, I'd use that. To make it pop you could enamel fill. If you only have a laser, you should be okay with Thermark. The thing I like about Thermark is if it doesn't work out, most of the time you can buff off the engraving. It is also the thing I really don't like about Thermark. I sometimes feel like I'm cheating my customer because I know eventually the Thermark will wear off.

I also say BS to anyone that says it won't wear off because I've tried several times and then took the product off and within 5 minutes of rubbing with water and a rag, the engraving was severally faded/half gone. Not what I'd consider permanent.

[Viktor Voroncov]

The difference between Carbon Steel and Stainless Steel is mostly in possibility of RUSTING for Carbon Steel. But engraving with Cermark/Thermark on this steel is OK. Agree with Mike about 12 hours :) Apply, wait when it will dry and engrave!

[Mike Null]

Carbon steel will mark perfectly with Thermark and needs to dry not more than one hour.

[Richard Rumancik]

. . . If you only have a laser, you should be okay with Thermark. The thing I like about Thermark is if it doesn't work out, most of the time you can buff off the engraving. It is also the thing I really don't like about Thermark. I sometimes feel like I'm cheating my customer because I know eventually the Thermark will wear off.

I also say BS to anyone that says it won't wear off because I've tried several times and then took the product off and within 5 minutes of rubbing with water and a rag, the engraving was severally faded/half gone. Not what I'd consider permanent.


Ross, if it will rub off with water and a rag then something is wrong with the process. On stainless, to remove a mark, you really have to abrade deeply starting with coarser grit and going to fine (2000) to get it off, and even then it will usually leave a phantom image that you can see if you look at it at the right angle. SOMETIMES I can get off the mark and salvage a piece, but I would not say this is normal or should be expected. Most of the time it is difficult to get the surface back to the original condition.

I have some stainless knives marked 8 years ago; they are in use daily and the mark still looks good. I have not seen marks wear off unless they were purposely abraded or scratched. Cermark has approvals for marking of aerospace components; they would not accept it if it washed off with water.

I use Cermark, not Thermark but I would expect similar results.

Thermark or Cermark should not be left on longer than needed as there is a risk of leaving a stain on the metal. It may not happen with all metals but sometimes there is a reaction. My procedure is to laser within an hour of spraying and wash residue asap - or place in a tub of water if they can't be washed immediately.

[Gary Hair]

I also say BS to anyone that says it won't wear off because I've tried several times and then took the product off and within 5 minutes of rubbing with water and a rag, the engraving was severally faded/half gone. Not what I'd consider permanent.

You are not doing it right if it wears off with a rag and water. I use a scouring pad on my test pieces and I GUARANTEE you that it won't wear off if lasered correctly. I accidentally lasered a line on a piece of stainless and it too me about 30 minutes with 15 different grits of wet sandpaper to get the mark off - it was only a hairline that was about 1.5" long!

If it wears off you either have the Cermark too thick or are not lasering with enough power.

Gary

[Mark Winlund]

Years ago when I first purchased the laser, I tried to do steel measurement tooling with the original Cermark. The steel discolored wherever the cermark had been applied. I finally got it to work with a thin coat of lacquer on the steel, and then apply the cermark. Certainly not what they recommend, but it worked. Cermark is pretty fiddly stuff to begin with. What works today will not always work tomorrow! Test if you can!

Mark

[Gary Hair]

Cermark is pretty fiddly stuff to begin with. What works today will not always work tomorrow!

I only hope that everyone thinks that way, it means more business for me...

Gary

[Ross Moshinsky]

I think I may have over exaggerated my stance with a cloth and water, but I will say with a bit of work, the engraving will fade fairly easily. It will still be there, but nothing like something actually etched into the material. When it calls for it, I use it, but a lot of the times I will throw it on the rotary machine and take care if that way. That way I know it will never fade or become an issue in the future.

[Mike Null]

Ross

I agree with the others. Something is wrong with your process. If Thermark, it may be that the coat is not heavy enough--with Cermark, it may not be light enough. It may not have dried or most likely, you used insufficient power, time and dpi.

It is also important to clean the material before applying.

[Karen Thompson]

Thanks Guys for all the responses - I was concerned more with the type of steel I was using - i'll give it a go anyway and see what happens.

Thanks again everyone.

PS - Happy Mothers Day to all you Mums :D

Karen

[Mike Null]

And Happy Valentine's Day to you.

Oh wait, it's St Patrick's Day that's next. But you wouldn't know that in Ireland, right. :)

[Dan Hintz]

Ross,

Yet another person who believes something is wrong with your process. Cermark can be heated red-hot with no change in appearance... I've marked turbo housings with it. I also do a lot of stainless steel mounting plates for engine components where it comes into contact with some nasty chemicals, and so far have had no complaints about any change in appearance.

[Karen Thompson]

And Happy Valentine's Day to you.

Oh wait, it's St Patrick's Day that's next. But you wouldn't know that in Ireland, right. :)

:D:D Ask me again on Wednesday -after the Parades and a few scoops of the dark stuff :D:D

[Gene Hobbs]

Karen
It will work. I just did some skining knives the other day that were 98% carbon steel. You may need to play with speed to get a good bond, but it will work.


Gene