The Dead Wood Concept.

[Dino Makropoulos]

Hi Guys.
This Friday Saturday and Sunday I will demonstrate the Dead Wood Concept at The Woodwork's show in Fort Washington-Philladelphia. PA...Stop over and say hi.


Dino

[Clint deal]

Please forgive my ignorance but what is the deadwood concept?

Clint

[Ken Salisbury]

I deleted some replies to this thread in order to avoid a controversy. Dino's command of the English language sometimes gives the impression he is making a sales pitch when in actuality he isn't. He asked my permission in advance of starting this thead so as to not appear he was making such a pitch.

I have edited the text to remove any inferences.


http://www.oldrebelworkshop.com/misc/moderator.gif

[Michael Ballent]

Thank you Ken.

[Frank Pellow]

That still leaves the question for those of us who will not be able to see Dino. What is the dead wood concept?

[Steve Jenkins]

As I understand it it is his philosophy of keeping the wood still (dead) and moving the saw. This is what he based his EZ smart guide system for the circular saw on. Steve

[Frank Pellow]

As I understand it it is his philosophy of keeping the wood still (dead) and moving the saw. This is what he based his EZ smart guide system for the circular saw on. Steve

Thanks Steve. Thats both a good concept and a catchy name for it.

[Jerry Olexa]

In my earlier "business" life deadwood referred to the excess people you had that weren't contributing. We had to make tough decisions on who had to go..Toughest part of the job! We called it "thining out the deadwood". Sometimes you had to look @ yourself! Hated it!!

[Chris Padilla]

Interesting name. I think, in general, we all do two things while woodworking:

(1) Moving the wood through the tool or
(2) Moving the tool through the wood

One way is usually easier and safer than the other. :)

[John Miliunas]

Wish I were in the Philly area, as I'd be sure to make an appearance! Well....Maybe not. I'd probably scare everybody away! :eek: Anyhow, good luck with the demo, Dino! Great concept. :cool:

[Ian Barley]

One way is usually easier and safer than the other. :)

But in my experience the situation dictates which one. It is not true to say that either one is superior to the other in all instances. Like everything else the choice of techniques should vary according to the situation

[George Tokarev]

Idiomatic English versus dictionary English, I guess.

But there are some words which just don't fit in some circumstances. I keep chiding my partners for saying "it's been dead today," because I don't think that's a way to describe a shift with few ambulance calls.

[Chris Padilla]

slow?? :) :)

[Jason Roehl]

Idiomatic English versus dictionary English, I guess.

But there are some words which just don't fit in some circumstances. I keep chiding my partners for saying "it's been dead today," because I don't think that's a way to describe a shift with few ambulance calls.

Sounds like the time a pharmacist told me after I picked up prescription: "Come again soon!" To which I replied, "I hope not!" He had to stop and think about it, but agreed with me in the end. :eek:

[Dino Makropoulos]

Please forgive my ignorance but what is the deadwood concept?

Clint
Hi Guys.
Imagine that you don't have to lift and push a 4x8 panel into a spinning
blade and have to go around the tool to get this piece and start all over
again and again.

Imagine that you don't have to measure, square or clamp each and every cut.

The idea is to remove all human error and not allow the wood or the machine
to inflict any damage to you.

I believe if we can prove that safe woodworking is possible
then we can remove the stigma (instead of the fingers)and give an
opportunity to youngsters to become woodworkers.



yourcarpenterfriend
Dino

[John Miliunas]

By the grace of God, I'm not in a wheelchair, but can certainly attest to the accuracy and safety aspect of the "dead wood concept". NO!...I'm NOT getting rid of my TS, but there are functions of this concept which are simply easier and safer done on machines other than most table saws. I proved that to myself once again this weekend, where working on our home, I ran into yet additional problems with "squareness". "Square"? No such thing at this place! Having a guided circular saw system is the *only* way to handle fitting pieces to un-square applications. I also "edge jointed" a bunch of very curvy Cherry rough lumber, saving me countless amounts of time on the jointer. This concept really works, guys! :) :cool:

[Greg Mann]

By the grace of God, I'm not in a wheelchair, but can certainly attest to the accuracy and safety aspect of the "dead wood concept". NO!...I'm NOT getting rid of my TS, but there are functions of this concept which are simply easier and safer done on machines other than most table saws. I proved that to myself once again this weekend, where working on our home, I ran into yet additional problems with "squareness". "Square"? No such thing at this place! Having a guided circular saw system is the *only* way to handle fitting pieces to un-square applications. I also "edge jointed" a bunch of very curvy Cherry rough lumber, saving me countless amounts of time on the jointer. This concept really works, guys! :) :cool:
I agree here too. I needed to rip some MDF to make risers (toekicks) for an island in our kitchen this weekend. Zipped em off with a GCSS and never had to wrestle the sheet on the table saw. They were all the same width, 4.2 inches, with no flaws from wandering off the fence. When I assembled them into a frame, you could not feel the seams at the end of the miters! I also needed to rout two rabbets on an end panel that already had a faceframe attached. It would have been a pain, if even possible on the router table because the faceframe would have interfered. A guide rail and router worked perfectly. Guided tools improve the accuracy and control of your work significantly.

Greg

[Dennis McDonaugh]

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I need a little more explaination of the concept besides its a guided circular saw. How does that ensure squre cuts and make it impossible to do damage to yourself? Little help here!

[Dino Makropoulos]

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I need a little more explaination of the concept besides its a guided circular saw. How does that ensure squre cuts and make it impossible to do damage to yourself? Little help here!
Hi Dennis.
You can have square cuts with a build in square.You can have accurate cuts with an intergrated measuring system and you can have safe cuts by securing the wood to the guide, and slide your tool on the track.Then the guided circular saw and router system becomes a "manual" CNC.
YCF Dino

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Dino,

So its a guided saw system? Is it your own design? BTW whats YCF mean?

[Steve Jenkins]

Dino,

So its a guided saw system? Is it your own design? BTW whats YCF mean?

Dennis, check Eurekazone.com

[Joseph N. Myers]

Dino,

So its a guided saw system? Is it your own design? BTW whats YCF mean?
Dennis,

YCF - Your Carpenter Friend (Dino)

Do a search on "list of acronmys" and you'll get a whole bunch of acronyms.

The one acronym of interest with respect to this thread is GCSS (Guided Circular Saw System). You can do a search on GCSS and get lots of information on the subject.

Regards, Joe

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Thanks guys

[Dino Makropoulos]

Dino,

So its a guided saw system? Is it your own design? BTW whats YCF mean?
Hi Dennis.
The application's for the Dead Wood Concept don't start or stop at the guided circular saws and routers.
It's been in use for at list 50 years. If you visit any dimensional factory you will see that in some cases the panel or wood stays put and in other cases the materials are push into the blades or knifes.
But in both cases the materials are under pressure (from feeding rollers) or secure with clamps. (dead)
In smaller factories or woodworking shops you will see the sliding table saw.
In this case the sliding table moves while the wood stays put on it.
This is much safer than the DIY shop where you have no choice but to stay in
Front of a table and push the material pass the spinning blade.
How many things can go wrong? I have no idea.
I run a dimensional plan in the past and the only tools that I don't allow every one to use was...the small ones. The ones that you thought anyone can control. The ones that look quiet and innocent.
You see, the big ones have all safety features in order to control the wood.
And you will never think to use one of this monsters without 3 lines of defense. Enclosures, feeding rollers,antickick back's and overhead pressure plates on the rip saws.
So with my limited (for today) time I like to make it clear that the dead wood concept is not mine. I just believe that it can be done and that one good thing brings another. With safety we can find accuracy, ergonomics ,space
and $$$ savings. Who knows what we can find on the dead wood concept?
I only test the theory on portable tools few times and I was able to do things that I can't even Imagine before.
Imagine that...
YOURCARPENTERFRIENDINO

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Us carpenters (among many other ww'ers) have been using this system for many years. Of course the guide rails were plywood and clamped onto the work, but the theme remains the same. Not many of us want to wrestle a full sheet of ply on a portable TS although mine can handle it with ease. It's just the sheer size of the ply and the bulk of it that pose the safety problems.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Kelly,

I don't work with ply a lot, but when I do I cut it into smaller sizes with a circular saw before taking it to the table saw. I have a few two piece saw horses from the process ;)

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Thanks for the synopsis Dino.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I hear ya Dennis...mine have more than a few slices on the tops...:D:D:D

[John Miliunas]

I hear ya Dennis...mine have more than a few slices on the tops...:D:D:D

True enough for many of us, Kelly! BUT, how many times have you observed an otherwise intelligent person, playing "weekend warrior" and has the "save" piece firmly sitting on the horses, while the drop side completely hanging off the side?! :eek: The smart carpenters & WW's have figured out the consequences of such a setup! I've seen some of the guys here share their idea of using thick styrofoam or similar for a complete support system to the *entire* piece. Makes much sense. I'm with the EZ "camp", so I use the Smart Table, but its idea still embraces the concept of supporting the whole piece. Yup, this whole "dead wood" concept makes much sense, IMHO. :cool:

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I agree John. I use the sticker method for keeping the stock on the table. Falling 8' x 12" or bigger slivers of plywood can hurt the floor...:D:D:D

[Dino Makropoulos]

I agree John. I use the sticker method for keeping the stock on the table. Falling 8' x 12" or bigger slivers of plywood can hurt the floor...:D:D:D
Hi Kelly.
Never mind your toes. :( :(
The most important thing is the material support system.
More important than the saw.

-And the fist synopsis for now...
The dead wood concept is here but not yet alive to us.(diy-woodworkers-contractors.etc.etc)
YCF Dino

[Ian Barley]

Dino

May I respectfully remind you of the following extract from the Terms Of Service of this site.

"Posts made by
Members with direct commercial affiliation, and with the apparent intent of using SawMill Creek for the sole purpose of promoting a product or service will be subject to removal. Members with direct commercial affiliation are defined to be those Members who stand to benefit financially from such a promotion.
"

You clearly have a "commercial affiliation" in the promotion of this concept. Your posts are sailing dangerously close to (if they have not already ) appearing to be for the sole purpose of promoting it.

I may be the only person who feels this and if that is the case the moderators should feel free to remove this post

. I do not want to stifle debate but do feel that if you are going to make further contributions to this thread that you should restrict yourself to directly responding to specific questions.

[Dave Brandt]

Sorry Ian, I don't see it. Sounds to me like Dino's describing processes he employs. If there's a safer way to do things, I'm all ears.

[John Miliunas]

Sorry Ian, I don't see it. Sounds to me like Dino's describing processes he employs. If there's a safer way to do things, I'm all ears.

I'm with you on this one, Dave! :) Further, he's not only describing a process HE employs, but one which major manufacturers employ through various applications. MANY of which I was NOT aware of, so among other things, I'm finding this to be educational on several levels! :) Thanks Dino, as I appreciate being able to broaden my education and understanding of this concept! :cool:

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I've seen all that type equipment in big shops and it's great, but it won't fit in my garage. Since most of us haven't seen it would be nice to SEE your concept on a webpage or series of photos (unless of course, you will be here in December at our ww show) or at least hear a very detailed description of it.

Since I work in my garage or in other people's driveway, it would really be cool to see any tips or tricks you might have for making our work safer...especially if they don't employ expensive stock feeders and such.

BTW, kickbacks are rare in our work and when they do happen, us smart folks aren't standing right behind the stock. :D:D:D

So let's hear about it!

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I forgot to add that what we do is put one sheet or more on the horses, then four to six strips of wood UNDER the top sheet to be cut. This way the cutoff and the stock are supported fully. Nothing falls off the table except dust. Then we clamp our guide to the ply and rip or crosscut. We use the clamp guide sold at Rockler when we remember it (unlike yesterday when we used a level). Soon I will own my first GCSS as I am about to order one. I will have a full review sometime before Turkey Day.

I also want to add that the GCSS idea is greatness. Nothing makes things easier on the job than NOT having to worry about cutting a straight line by hand. We even use the idea on decks (usually have to use a straight 2x6 though for the length requirements).

[Ian Barley]

Sorry Ian, I don't see it. Sounds to me like Dino's describing processes he employs. If there's a safer way to do things, I'm all ears.


You are right that safety is a good thing - examine my prior posts and you will see that I take a keen interest in it. This thread has attempted to depict this way of working as intrinsically completely safe. It is not. Any time energy is applied to a substance harder that human flesh (like the metal of a spinning blade or bit) injury is possible. If simply keeping the wood static (dead) immediately made the whole thing foolproof then the guys who make the big cnc's wouldn't put cages around them.

[Dino Makropoulos]

You are right that safety is a good thing - examine my prior posts and you will see that I take a keen interest in it. This thread has attempted to depict this way of working as intrinsically completely safe. It is not. Any time energy is applied to a substance harder that human flesh (like the metal of a spinning blade or bit) injury is possible. If simply keeping the wood static (dead) immediately made the whole thing foolproof then the guys who make the big cnc's wouldn't put cages around them.
Hello Ian.
Thanks for bringing up the "CNC". We're getting closer now to the concept.
And while the large CNC'S need cages around them for many reasons
We, at the other hand (the "NASA" design group) believe that if you keep the cutoff piece under pressure (DEAD) it will not become airborne and there is not need for the cages.
YCF Dino

[Greg Mann]

You are right that safety is a good thing - examine my prior posts and you will see that I take a keen interest in it. This thread has attempted to depict this way of working as intrinsically completely safe. It is not. Any time energy is applied to a substance harder that human flesh (like the metal of a spinning blade or bit) injury is possible. If simply keeping the wood static (dead) immediately made the whole thing foolproof then the guys who make the big cnc's wouldn't put cages around them.
Ian,

I understand your concerns, and, while this process is not intrinsically safe, it is intrinsically safer than many present practices. While Dino does have a product related to this concept, I think, in this case, he is promoting a concept of safer woodworking regardless of the brand of product used. This is something on which both the F and E proponents do agree.;)

Greg

[Frank Pellow]

Ian, I agree with Dave, John, and Greg, that, in this case, Dino is describing a (safer) concept and not promting his product.

[Dino Makropoulos]

Sorry Ian, I don't see it. Sounds to me like Dino's describing processes he employs. If there's a safer way to do things, I'm all ears.
Dave.
I wish I was all ears and eyes many times before.



It was 1987, in Manhattan, (57th Street and Park Ave).
The project: make and install custom radiator covers.
Materials to be use: R/Q white oak ply and laminate.



We try to find parking and take our tools up 30 some odd floors, (an entire truck load).
Including, among other things, a table saw, miter saw, circular saw, planer , belt sander, zick saw and
sawhorses. We arrive at the building the same time as Tony.
Tony was one man crew (union carpenter) and all his tools were in 2 carry on bags. A circular saw and few jigs.
To make a long story short ...he out perform all 3 of us.
We're so upset that this old man was some how better and faster than all of us that we never bothered to see his method and to learn.
At the end of the job..Me the great carpenter, finally I asked Tony to show me and teach me a few tricks.
”Now you ask me? The job is done. You’re so.. stupid.!!!”


What Tony didn’t know then was that I had managed to see him in action few times.



Fifteen years later I walk into the Federal Savings Bank, (Fort Lee, N.J.) with a circular saw, a jig (and one bag) The grand opening was in 3 days and I had to build a few counters and 2 large cabinets. The Formica was special order and the only one (according to his wife) that would make them happy. The banker saw me cutting Formica with nothing but a circular saw and a jig and nearly had a stroke when he watched the painter bump into me while I was cutting. Me, I just continued cutting the piece like... nothing happened. To make this story short, after I told him and his wife that nothing can go wrong because the materials, the jig and the tool all moved together, then they complained why I did I charge them so much money (few thousand dollars) for 2 days work using only a jig and a circular saw. So, I told him…”Dont worry, your money goes to a good cause”.


What we have here is: me getting upset with Tony,
Tony with me, the banker getting upset with me (even if I save the day).
and the painter happy that the Formica didn't get broken.
Oh yes. I forget few guys at the trade shows.
One guy was so upset with my demo that he was talking to himself loud enough so others could hear
”This is the lazy man's way. I don't like it.”

My loud answer to him was… “Call me lazy, but don't call me stupid any more .”

So, the guy turns around and says to me... “Why you say that? I never call you stupid.”
”Sorry sir.I was talking to Tony.”

And the very same time another woodworker said to me...”I like the elegant way to work. What else do you have?”



You see Dave? Imagine if I was all ears with Tony.
What else did he have?



I don't know how to mix the marketing and imagination of a new and safer way to woodworking....If Tony was here I think we all know his answer.
YCF Dino

[Rich Konopka]

My loud answer to him was… “Call me lazy, but don't call me stupid any more .”
Dino, Your story can be summed up in one word. K.I.S.S. ( Keep It Simple Stupid) :D

Thanks for sharing your story. It sounds like you learned a great deal from your friend Tony.

Cheers,

[Dino Makropoulos]

Dino, Your story can be summed up in one word. K.I.S.S. ( Keep It Simple Stupid) :D

Thanks for sharing your story. It sounds like you learned a great deal from your friend Tony.

Cheers,

(edited before Ken can get to it) :D
"In my experience, it is easy to design something complicated. The simple solutions take a lot more thought, time, and money to develop".
Michael T.
Mechanical Engineer

But it can be done. The Dead Wood Concept can be the answer to all woodworking problem's. But first we have to learn that the best tool is our Imagination. (sorry Ian) :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Then we can all say...Is so simple...It's simply Jenius. :)
By the way, NASA (Not Another Stupid Accesorie)
YCF Dino

[Kelly C. Hanna]

For now I am going to stop watching this thread. When the whole thing is lined out in a webpage for all to learn from...let me know. It will be interesting to see what everyone can get from it.

That was a great story about the carpenter. I would imagine in NY that's a plus to only have to carry in one or two bags of tools. Here, the clients would be seen sporting huge question marks above their head. :D

[Dino Makropoulos]

For now I am going to stop watching this thread. When the whole thing is lined out in a webpage for all to learn from...let me know. It will be interesting to see what everyone can get from it.

That was a great story about the carpenter. I would imagine in NY that's a plus to only have to carry in one or two bags of tools. Here, the clients would be seen sporting huge question marks above their head. :D

Kelly.
I will do just that. I will post the whole DWC (Another acronym for my friend JOE M) in our website :)