My take on the Festool MFT table

[Tri Hoang]

I badly needed an assembly table. Having bought the Festool TS75 saw and tracks, I looked at the MFT table but could not cough up the cash for it. In my book, it has some good design ideas but not enough innovation to worth the selling price. Besides, I thought a typical woodworker would be able to build it well with just some regular tools.

In designing my assembly table, I noted that I frequently cut 5x5 Baltic birch so ideally it needs to be a tad more than 5' long. The Festool kit comes with a 42" guide rail and I'd like to keep 5" or rail on each end for the saw to ride. Thus my table ended up being 61" x 32". I don't plan to move this table very often so mobility isn't a concern.

The top is just one sheet of Baltic birch laminated on top of another (~1-1/4" thick). Torsion box construction is probably better for the flat top but not sure how the dog holes would work out. The split in the middle is about 1-1/2" - enough to let a Bessey parallel clamp head through. The dog holes are 3/4" on 5" center. I prefer imperial 3/4" because it allows me to use my existing hold fasts, clamps, dogs...Again, I don't see value in Festool clamps for the table over what I already got.

The apron is built using 8/4 white ash to 3" height. Instead of aluminum tracks, I use sliding dovetails for the sides. The sliding dovetail hold securely with less chance of break out. I routed a 1/2" groove first, then follow up with a 14* dovetail bit. The bottom of the sliding dovetail is 3/4" wide. The top of the apron is a little too small for the sliding dovetails so I ended up using T slot. T slots in wood such as ash aren't very durable. Thus far, I've use them with care and they seem to hold up OK.

The total cost of this table, including the Festool kit with 42" rail is a tad less than $150.

[johnny means]

Nice:). I plan on building a new bench soon and I definitely will be revisiting this thread for some ideas. would like to see some pics of it in use.

[Doug Mason]

I bought the Festool MDF table a number of years ago when I first got into woodworking. I never liked it in a shop environment and got rid of it. I thought it a big waste of money.

I suppose if one is a contractor it might work--but I had doubts about that too. I think you took the right course by building a table yourself.

[Eiji Fuller]

The total cost of this table, including the Festool kit with 42" rail is a tad less than $150.

Yeah That's only if it built itself. Why is time money except when comparing shopmade tools vs commercial tools?

not to detract from the very nice table you made. Very nice! but to put a cost of 150 is ridiculous.

[tim rowledge]

Why is time money except when comparing shopmade tools vs commercial tools?
Because for hobbyists the time is not a cost, it's a payment?

[johnny means]

Yeah That's only if it built itself. Why is time money except when comparing shopmade tools vs commercial tools?



Even for us professionals you can't count labor towards the cost unless you actually paid an employee to build it or you had give up some amount of billable hours to do it. Would changing your own oil after work save you $30 bucks, or wood you consider that time that you last money? It would be ridiculous for me to equate the time I spend cooking dinner to my shop rate. Like wise a slow day cleaning the shop or building a bench is not equal to a $500 day building furniture.

[Tom W Armstrong]

I'd like to add to Johnny's excellent comment about time/value/money.

If you're a "hobbyist" you are paying for your tools with "after tax" dollars. If you're, say, in the 28% tax bracket, you have to earn $1000 to buy a $720 tool. You really need to keep this in mind when building something that could be "bought" as it adds even more value to what you produce when not spending real dollars, etc.

Of course, if you're a professional, tools are purchased with pre-tax dollars, so it's a bit different story.

My two cents.

[Tri Hoang]

Let's just say the materials cost $150 and an afternoon of elbow grease. The break down of the costs:
- Festool 494071 - $103.50 includes 42" rails, angle stop/fence, and accessories
- Baltic birch - $25
- 8 bdft of 8/4 white ash - $20
- an afternoon working in the shop - priceless (or $0 - depends on your take)

[Van Huskey]

I like the table! For me I enjoy building shop "furniture" as much as anything else especially when it fits me better than the commercial offerings.

[Frank Martin]

Tri,

Your table looks great.

How well does it work, does it keep square between cuts or do you have to constantly check/adjust for square?

Years ago I had purchased an MFT 1080 for crosscuts and it never worked well me. I ended up sellig it. It was my worst Festool purchase...

Curious if yours perform any differently.

Thanks...j


Let's just say the materials cost $150 and an afternoon of elbow grease. The break down of the costs:
- Festool 494071 - $103.50 includes 42" rails, angle stop/fence, and accessories
- Baltic birch - $25
- 8 bdft of 8/4 white ash - $20
- an afternoon working in the shop - priceless (or $0 - depends on your take)

[John Stevens]

If you're a "hobbyist" you are paying for your tools with "after tax" dollars. If you're, say, in the 28% tax bracket, you have to earn $1000 to buy a $720 tool.

Let's take that line of thought and turn it toward labor costs. Let's assume that, as a person in the 28% tax bracket, your marginal wage rate after taxes is $30/hr--that is, if you put in another hour or more working in any given week, you'd take home $30 for that particular hour. Assuming that it only took an afternoon (four hours, say) to build the table, that's $120.00, almost as much as the cost of materials. If we take "an afternoon's worth of elbow grease" with a grain of salt and figure it would take at least 16 hours' labor to make that workbench (including design, setup, cleanup, etc.--I've built three large MFT-style tables myself) you're looking at a labor cost near $500.00.

But ultimately the question of whether it's better to buy or make it can only be decided by the individual. Nice table, Mr. Tri, hope it gives you many years of enjoyable service.

Regards,

John

[Tri Hoang]

Tri,

Your table looks great.

How well does it work, does it keep square between cuts or do you have to constantly check/adjust for square?

Years ago I had purchased an MFT 1080 for crosscuts and it never worked well me. I ended up sellig it. It was my worst Festool purchase...

Curious if yours perform any differently.

Thanks...j

Frank,

I have the rail set against front/back stops so it's repeatable in that dimension...mainly to keep the kerf consistent on the table top. The is a small side-to-side play in rail when flipping it down but it could be shim out.

The fence must be set square every time against the rail using a jig that I specifically made for this purpose. I had to make the jig because the back side of my rail isn't 100% parallel with the front side. It's off by a 7-8 thous...It takes a minute or so for the set up. Once set, it holds its setting well.

[Dave Mendoza]

Yeah That's only if it built itself. Why is time money except when comparing shopmade tools vs commercial tools?

not to detract from the very nice table you made. Very nice! but to put a cost of 150 is ridiculous.

Hi Eiji - I would agree if the person was a professional woodworker. For most of us, we are hobbyist and time spent doing projects is an enjoyment and not a money-making experience. If we took your approach/reasoning, I doubt we would be able to do anything ourselves without realizing time was money. For instance, making breakfast would be a challenge, since the dollar menu at McDonald offers so much. We wouldn't be able to sleep, take showers, or even go to the bathroom if we associated costs with our every day lives. Woodworking for many of us is a hobby and some of us actually enjoy the Zen type feeling when we are doing something we enjoy. I understand your reasoning, but please give a hobbyist like Tri a break.

Dave

PS: At $30/hr I just wasted $1

[Tri Hoang]

Let's take that line of thought and turn it toward labor costs. Let's assume that, as a person in the 28% tax bracket, your marginal wage rate after taxes is $30/hr--that is, if you put in another hour or more working in any given week, you'd take home $30 for that particular hour. Assuming that it only took an afternoon (four hours, say) to build the table, that's $120.00, almost as much as the cost of materials. If we take "an afternoon's worth of elbow grease" with a grain of salt and figure it would take at least 16 hours' labor to make that workbench (including design, setup, cleanup, etc.--I've built three large MFT-style tables myself) you're looking at a labor cost near $500.00.

But ultimately the question of whether it's better to buy or make it can only be decided by the individual. Nice table, Mr. Tri, hope it gives you many years of enjoyable service.

Regards,

John

John,

Thanks for the nice comment. It's really a personal thing to decide whether to make or buy something. If I could charge 1/2 my hourly rate every time I work in the shop, I'd not need a day job.

[Tony Shea]

NIce table. I agree that the Festool version is an overpriced, light weight, peice of MDF with holes in it. I couldn't ever imagine spending the money for the that thing when building one that is twice as sturdy would cost a 1/4 of the price. And I'm talking materials $, not labor costs. To put a price on labor for shop tools and fixtures for a hobbiest is insane. Even for a professional it may be a bit unreasonable. That's like saying that bringing your lunch with you to the job everyday isn't saving you money because of the time spent to prepare it. But for the past few years my wallet has sure seen a difference rather than buying a quick bite at the store everyday. Others have given great examples of why I think this logic is flawed. One could spend as much time going to the store to buy and put together the festool table, or anyother shop fixture, than it would for them to build it. It's just an unreasonable comment IMO. Great table man.

[Dave Mendoza]

I have 2 MFTs and I love them. I do not agree with the comment it's an overpriced piece of MDF--We shouldn't have a battle on the cost/benefit of Festool products on this thread. Anyway, the MFTs took 5 days for delivery, since it was shipped freight. Can you imagine if you add that to the total cost? :eek:

To the OP, it's a nice looking table. I'm in the process of making a couple of MFT type tables as we speak. I absolutely love the LR32 kit.

[Jim Becker]

It's really a personal thing to decide whether to make or buy something

Bingo!! I often consider my time when making a build vs. buy decision. I have such limited "discretionary" time, that I have to seriously weight things accordingly. Ideally, I'd like to make everything...but that wouldn't be practical.
-------

Nice job on that Tri. While I have an MFT that I use for portable work or when I want the ease it provides for routing dados across narrow workpieces, I think your idea is very sound to combine the functionality of a heavier assembly surface with the precision and capability that you enjoy with your Festool investment.

[Joe Cowan]

A professional has to look at dollars and value and justify if buying a tool can turn him a higher profit. The hobbyist can buy a tool at any price and justify if as it is a hobby and this tool gives him pleasure just by owning it. I have a business partner that collects guns. Every time he buys a new gun, he must have 75 or so, he also buys a case of shells. I ask him why, he cannot possibly shoot all these guns, much less a whole case of shells. He tells me he just wants the shells. It is all part of the reason he loves his hobby/collection.

[Loren Hedahl]

Hey! Is there anyone that has all his "head screws" tightened to perfection?

I also consider my MFT 1080 something that was not engineered very well for the price I paid. However, I transferred the fence/guide rail setup to a cheapo banquet table and it is a great portable saw-table for sheet goods.

I plan to make another small, narrow one that can take the place of my miter saw when I work indoors. I just haven't found a suitable shaped portable table yet.

[Frank Martin]

Tri,

Thanks for the followup. Sounds like your design is better than the original one. Seems like there is no way to avoid squaring the fence frequently. This was very frustrating for me after shelling out so much to get the MFT.

Enjoy your homemade MFT.




Frank,

I have the rail set against front/back stops so it's repeatable in that dimension...mainly to keep the kerf consistent on the table top. The is a small side-to-side play in rail when flipping it down but it could be shim out.

The fence must be set square every time against the rail using a jig that I specifically made for this purpose. I had to make the jig because the back side of my rail isn't 100% parallel with the front side. It's off by a 7-8 thous...It takes a minute or so for the set up. Once set, it holds its setting well.

[Chris Padilla]

Well, I have TWO MFT1080 bolted to each other! I think I bought the first one outright and got the second one used. :D