Advise on hand saws

[Andrew Gibson]

I am thinking of picking up a pair of hand saws to add to my tool collection. I have an old disston rip saw that belonged to my Great Grandfather with a broken but usable handle and severely dull teeth, but beyond this I only have a Lie Nelson DT saw.

There have been several projects recently that I have wished that I had a pair of rip and crosscut saws to take the place of the power tools such as the Table saw and Circular saw.

So My thoughts are to start new and at the moment I am considering the Pax handsaws. I was thinking a 26" 10ppi xcut and a 26" 5.5ppi rip.

My question is do these sound like good choices? would an 8ppi xcut be a better choice? I would rather a few more strokes and a cleaner cut I think.

Does anyone have experience with the Pax saws? are there better saws out there for the money? Am I missing anything?

The other saw on my list is the Sash saw from TFWW, or more specifically the the sash saw kit, if it ever becomes available. then eventually a pair of carcass saws to round out a nice full saw till.

[David Gendron]

Hi Andrew, I read that the pax saws are not quite up to the other like the LN, W&S Etc.
As for the ppi, do you work mainly with hard wood(maple walnut beech cherry...) or soft wood( pine poplar etc). do you want the saws for breaking down stocks, or to do "finnshing" cuts?

If you like your LN saw, LN just came out with some panel saws. I own two W&S back saw and they are great, you can buy them at LV. They are fairly priced and great quality saws!

There is other options, but more expensive, Medallion tool work, makes custom saws, And i'm sure they are others!

[Jim Koepke]

I have become spoiled by old saws that I have sharpened. Not that I am great at the task, but over time from learning what the different aspects of the tooth profile does, my sharpening has progressed to where my saws work great for me. At recent tool shows, different saws were tried and they were great saws. They tracked well and I was able to cut two kerfs about an eighth of an inch apart and then split the piece between them. My saws that I have sharpened at home can do the same thing and cut faster with the same tooth count. It is just the difference of a more aggressive tooth profile that make mine faster.

In a way this was disappointing. My hope was to find saws that would give me something to aspire to with my sharpening.

There were some good features that were likable, but nothing that can't be done without buying a new saw.

So, my suggestion would be to read up on sharpening and restore your Great Grandfather's saw. You will likely be amazed at how easy it is to file teeth and put new life into an old saw.

If you are interested in sharpening, Norse Woodsmith and Vintagesaws.com are both good places to learn about saw sharpening.

jim

[Andrew Gibson]

Thanks guys.
First I am interested initially in getting saws to allow me to break down stock, but if possible still leave a reasonably clean cut (probably a result of sharpening rather then tooth count). I would also like to do finish cuts on large panels rather then have to drag them over the TS.

I am definitely going to learn to sharpen my own saws. however right now the tool budget is quite limited so the tools themselves are more important then the sharpening... I know this just feels like flawed logic.

I do the majority of my work in hardwoods, ash, cherry, walnut, maple, and some exotics like Sapele...

I have been checking out Vintagesaws, I will have to check out Noors woodsman.

There is a woodworking show coming to Tampa I think next weekend that I plan to attend, I know that Lee Valley will be there, hopefully there will be lots of fun stuff to see.

[lowell holmes]

Giving advice about saws is kind of like giving advice about women, but here is what I have done.

I have three LN back saws, the dovetail and both carcass saws.

I have a 1960's Craftsman 10 tpi sharpened as a rip saw. It gives a good smooth cut. It will also cut cross cut. Tage Frid inspired me to do this. It is a good saw for a chair maker

I have a D23 Disston 10tpi crosscut saw that stays in the kerf and is a delight to use. It was sharpened so many times the tip was worn down, so I cut it off to 22", making it a tool box saw. It is a favorite of mine.

I have a D20 9 point Disston that makes the smoothest cross cut I can get. It is a first run saw, somewhat rare.

I have a D23 Disston 5 1/2 point rip saw that does a nice job.

I have enjoyed learning to sharpen these saws and tune them to cutting straight. I clean the handles with steel wool and mineral spirits and wax them rather than refinish them. I polish the saw nuts and medallians with brass polish.

[Matt Ranum]

While I haven't dabbled into the sharpening of my saws yet, that hasn't stopped me from getting all the things I need. I have reconditioned(except for sharpening) a few old crosscuts and rips that actually still cut pretty good which is why I didn't resharpen them yet. However, the most expensive part for me to pick up was a saw set and I think I paid $10 for that. Most of my saws I have less than $5. invested in them from garage sales and auctions.

[Andrew Gibson]

Thanks all, Keep the opinions coming. I would rather here what individuals perfer and for what reasons then to hear a definitive answer.

I am considering the Pax saws because they are about half the price of the other, nicer saws on the market and should get me going once outfitted with new handles I plan to make. once I have time to go bargain hunting I plan to find some good vintage saws and clean them up to add to the collection. I also plan to get myself a saw vise and a set of files and get good at filing.

I need to make a new handle for my grandpas disston while I'm at it.

Any preferences on saw length? I was thinking of 26" but I'm wondering if the 22" xcut might be a better chice.

[David Keller NC]

Andrew - Well, this most definitely an opinion, but I would stay far away from the Pax, Lynx and Garlick saws. The main complaint is the handles, which are really not acceptable from a comfor point of view. You noted you intend to make or re-shape the handles, so this might not be much of a consideration. However, if you're going to put that much work into it, you've two other options that, in my opinion anyway, are way, way better.

The first is to call up Mike Wenzlof and see if you can purchase a saw plate and saw nuts from him. You will then have the distinct advantage of a new, taper-ground blade with a superb tooth-shaping and filing job. Together with a handle custom-fitted for your hand, you'll wind up with a saw that's worlds better than a Pax or Lynx for about the same price.

The second option is considerably cheaper - buy an antique Disston from the 1917 through 1940's era, and either buy a file and sharpen it yourself or send it out (Mike Wenzloff would be an excellent choice, but Techno Primitives does and excellent job as well). Then take some rasps in hand and re-shape the handle. The steel in these Disston saws is superior, the blades are taper-ground, and they're well designed from the standpoint of balance and shape. Because the handles are unacceptable (similar to the Lynx and Pax current production, but a bit better), they are not sought after by either users or collectors, and are very inexpensive. And you can simply remove the finish and shape the handle to your liking.

[David Gendron]

Ok Andrew, I think you should give Mark Harrell a call at Bad Axe Tool Works: http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/contact-bad-axe-tool-works.html
Mark is a great guy to deal with and he could set you up with great vintage saws that will have good confortable totes for a realy good price! You won't get better saws!

[Andrew Gibson]

Thanks guys. Looks like I have a couple phone calls to make.
I didn't know Mike Wenzloff made saw kits, I will have to price them out, but it would appear that they go for not much more then the pax saws and I know they will be better quality. I will be getting in contact with Mark Harrell as well and see what I can turn up.

Pax is officially off the list.

Thanks for all the help

[David Gendron]

Keep us posted on your choices!!

[Joel Goodman]

Daryl Weir also sells sharpened saws and is well worth calling.

[Tri Hoang]

The Pax handles are horrible. I had to reshape the handles on every one of them. However, they have good steel, tapper ground, and saws arrived sharp with good sets. I had a 26" 8tpi x-cut saw and it's got used quite a bit more than the 5tpi rip. I tend to get lazy and use the band saw for rip.

Compared to my D7 10tpi x-cut, it's a little heavier & faster. The finish of the cuts on both saws are more or less identical.

Hartville Tools have the Pax saws on clearance for a long time.

[george wilson]

The Garlick blades are VERY soft,compared to a good blade made of spring tempered 1095 steel. The good makers,and I use 1095.

[Leon Jester]

Andrew --

I prefer to buy older saws (usually on e-Bay) -- Disston and Atkins by preference -- as the handles are designed to be used and not leave a set of quarter-sized blisters on one's hand.

Custom makers like Wenzloff use similar handles. Modern production saws have horrible handles. I don't know if Mike would sell a handle by itself or not. May be worth contacting him about it, all he can say is "no."

Sharpening isn't too difficult, a saw vice can be made from 1x stock and a couple of 1/4-20 bolts. Mine has a 15 degree back-slant which aids in filing sloped gullets.

Bob Smalser has an excellent tutorial here on Sawmill Creek:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=66090

and there is an article by Harold Payson in FWW (http://www.finewoodworking.com/fwnpdf/011068072.pdf) which can be viewed online if you're a member of the online stuff at Taunton.

Good luck, I think you'll discover years of enjoyment using hand saws.

[Andrew Gibson]

Hi all, Have an update.
I contacted Mike Wenzloff and he got back to me with an estimate for a few saws.
It would seem that I can pick up his saw kits for the same or less then the pax saws. I was originally planning to make new handles for them, so I have no problem making handles for a better saw for the same price.

So I am thinking that I will be getting a
22" x-cut 10 ppi
maybe a 22" rip 6 ppi(remember I have a 26" rip that belonged to my Great Grandfather I plan to refurbish) Might pass on this for the time being, but would like the pair.
and a large Tenon saw probably 16" rip 10 ppi
I am also contemplating a tenon saw probably 12" x-cut 15 ppi (it might come down to a toss up between the tenon saw and the rip saw, but I would like to get both, just have to see if the budget will comply.

Now for a question. I am thinking sense I have a saw I want to restore anyway I may invest in the files and a saw set rather then have Mike set and sharpen the saws for me. So the question is where can I get a good saw set that will do what I need it to, or a pair of them that wont break the bank? I will need to be able to set teeth ranging from 6 ppi to 15 ppi.
I guess I also need a supplier of good files, It looks like TFWW is out of stock on most of the files I would need.

[Jim Koepke]

Hi all, Have an update.
I contacted Mike Wenzloff and he got back to me with an estimate for a few saws.
It would seem that I can pick up his saw kits for the same or less then the pax saws. I was originally planning to make new handles for them, so I have no problem making handles for a better saw for the same price.

So I am thinking that I will be getting a
22" x-cut 10 ppi
maybe a 22" rip 6 ppi(remember I have a 26" rip that belonged to my Great Grandfather I plan to refurbish) Might pass on this for the time being, but would like the pair.
and a large Tenon saw probably 16" rip 10 ppi
I am also contemplating a tenon saw probably 12" x-cut 15 ppi (it might come down to a toss up between the tenon saw and the rip saw, but I would like to get both, just have to see if the budget will comply.

Now for a question. I am thinking sense I have a saw I want to restore anyway I may invest in the files and a saw set rather then have Mike set and sharpen the saws for me. So the question is where can I get a good saw set that will do what I need it to, or a pair of them that wont break the bank? I will need to be able to set teeth ranging from 6 ppi to 15 ppi.
I guess I also need a supplier of good files, It looks like TFWW is out of stock on most of the files I would need.

Sounds like some good things are coming your way.

Vintage Saws dot com sells Grobet files. It depends if you are interested in a particular brand. I think Lie-Nielsen and others sell Nicholson files.

jim

[David Gendron]

You can have a look at "The Best Thing" web site. I think they cary every thing you need. And good for you on the saws. don't forget to show us what you come up to with the handles!