Oneway balancing system

[Don Meyer]

I just ordered the oneway balancing system since I am also ordering a new grinding wheel for my grinder. I have several questions for anyone who has used this system so I have a heads up before it arrives. On the oneway web site they had a review from a guy who was testing it for some publicationand he said he put his new wheel on the grinder and trued it up before balancing it. Is this necessary or reccomended by Oneway? My second question is after the wheel has been balanced is the whole flange and such from the kit placed on the shaft of the grinder? Is it screwed onto the arbor and is that why they send two flanges one right hand tyhread and one left hand thread?

[Scott Crumpton]

The flanges mount on the wheel, then the whole assembly goes on the grinder after balancing. You don't need the flanges that came with the grinder, but may need to use the spacer that comes with the balancers.

It's my opinion that the balancer should be installed on a wheel, the wheel balanced, then mounted on the grinder and the wheels trued up. Then, if there is any vibration left, remove the assembly from the grinder (don't remove the balancer from the wheel), adjust the balance and reinstall on the grinder. It's possible that truing the wheels will affect the balance.

---Scott.

[Steve Schlumpf]

I agree with Scott - you may have to re-balance the wheel after truing it up on the grinder. I had to - but then everything really smoothed out - so it was worth the effort.

[Jeff Wright]

I can't say from personal experience (yet!), but I have been told that the wheel truing and dressing tool from Don Geiger will put a new wheel into balance without the use of the Oneway balancing system. I have both: the Oneway balancing system which I used prior to getting the Geiger tool, and later, the truing tool sold by Geiger. I do know that his truing tool is one of the best, although a bit pricey:


For you, this all may be a moot point in that you already have the Oneway system on order.

[Joshua Dinerstein]

So are these something that are truly recommended? I have seen them in various catalogs. I just wonder how much it really does to help.

It seems like it could. But then a few things lately have seemed interesting that when really looked at have been somewhat of a gimmick. Anyone have any ideas how many people use them? Do they really make a difference?

Thanks,
Joshua

[Don Geiger]

Theoretically speaking, one can gravimetrically (through the use of counter weights) counterbalance the imbalance of the wheels. However, if the imbalance is due to eccentricities in the circumference of the wheel, as it is mounted to the axle of the grinder, counterblancing alone will not reduce the action of tools bouncing on the surface of the wheel.

I have done extensive testing using several diffrerent wheels, using a gravimetric counter balancing system and a run out gauge and in virtually every case the heavy side of the wheel was consistent with a high spot on the wheel.

Through application and research, I have devloped the opinion that if you first opt to make the wheels truly concentric to the axle you will find that a gravimetric wheel balancing system is not necessary. A wheel balancing system would do a good job of counterbalancing if the imbalance was only due to inconsistencies in the density of the aggregate distribution in a wheel, but this is seldom the problem.

I have seen the use of only a good truing system work well in over 1,000 cases and the worst that can happen is you decide later to buy a wheel balancing system (which I really doubt you will find the need for) because even if you do use a wheel balancing system you will still need a wheel truing system.

I also recommend eliminating the use of the plastic bushings that are generally supplied to make up the difference between the o.d. of the grinder axle and the i.d. of the wheel. Either buy a wheel with a mounting hole equivalent to the diameter of the axle on your grinder or purchase machined steel bushings to make up the difference. I use 5/8 i.d. X 1" o.d. X 1" L hardened drill bushings for this. You can get them from a number of sources for about $10 each.

Don Geiger

[Clint Baxter]

A useful function of the Oneway Balancing System on even an otherwise balanced and trued wheel is the machined flanges that come with the system. One of the biggest problems I had with my grinder was the poor, stamped steel flanges that came with the grinder. They caused the majority of the vibration when the grinder was operating. Putting the new wheels on the Oneway System flanges eliminated the majority of vibration and truing the wheels then provided a vibration-free operation. To me, that alone was worth the cost of the system.

[Ryan Baker]

A useful function of the Oneway Balancing System on even an otherwise balanced and trued wheel is the machined flanges that come with the system. One of the biggest problems I had with my grinder was the poor, stamped steel flanges that came with the grinder. They caused the majority of the vibration when the grinder was operating. Putting the new wheels on the Oneway System flanges eliminated the majority of vibration and truing the wheels then provided a vibration-free operation. To me, that alone was worth the cost of the system.

Exactly! I had the same problems -- severe wheel wobble resulting from the stamped flanges and shaft machining. The Oneway kit was the best solution to mounting wheels square and solid on my grinder's shafts. That was and is the main reason I got them. That's the first, and often the biggest, problem to overcome setting up the grinder.

The next biggest problem is getting the wheel round, which is what the truing tools like the Geiger are designed to do. That stops your tool from bouncing as the wheel spins. After all that, you may still have some imbalance in the wheel (due to uneven density, etc.) that you should be able to tweak out with the balancing kit after truing the wheels.

... Or you can cough up the cash for a Baldor ...

[Rob Cunningham]

I have balanced my share of grinding wheels (7" dia up to 24" dia) working in various tool and die shops over the years. The way I was taught was to mount the wheel on the hub and balance it as close as possible. Mount the hub and wheel on the grinder and dress the wheel. Then remove the wheel and hub from the machine and recheck the balance. Most of the time a wheel will need a little more balancing after dressing. It can be time consuming, but well worth the effort. As a wheel gets smaller from use, it's rare but possible that it may need to be balanced again.

[Ryan Baker]

I have balanced my share of grinding wheels (7" dia up to 24" dia) working in various tool and die shops over the years. The way I was taught was to mount the wheel on the hub and balance it as close as possible. Mount the hub and wheel on the grinder and dress the wheel. Then remove the wheel and hub from the machine and recheck the balance. Most of the time a wheel will need a little more balancing after dressing. It can be time consuming, but well worth the effort. As a wheel gets smaller from use, it's rare but possible that it may need to be balanced again.

I agree. I wasn't clear in my earlier post. I balance the wheel when mounting it. Then true it up. Then check again if it needs any tweaking to the balance. I was just saying that the balancing is usually a much smaller effect compared to the wobble (mounting square) or tureness (out of round) effects.

[Randall Sukovich]

After reading Jeff Wright's reply and Don Geiger's response I went to Don's website. I then went ahead and contacted Mr. Geiger. Result? I purchased the Geiger Truing Tool and offer these comments:

1. Service was very good (well packaged and fast delivery) - it was shipped the next day.
2. Tool is really well made.
3. How did it work? I use the Wolverine system and, based on my experience, this tool was faster and easier to use than the Wolverine "truing tool". Also, the "end result" appears to be better than what I get from the Wolverine "truing tool", or at least I get a better result without the same "effort" that went into using the Wolverine Truing Tool.
4. The instructions that he sends with the tool are very clear (though the tool is so easy to use that most of us would just ignore the instructions). However, it is worthwhile to read the instructions because of some of the insights he provides.
5. By the way, his recommendation about what bushings to use was right on.
6. He is very professional, knowledgable, and friendly (actually, I should have placed this first because it's always a pleasure dealing with "good people.").

[Karl Fife]

Theoretically speaking, one can gravimetrically (through the use of counter weights) counterbalance the imbalance of the wheels...I have done extensive testing using several diffrerent wheels, using a gravimetric counter balancing system and a run out gauge and in virtually every case the heavy side of the wheel was consistent with a high spot on the wheel.

Just a counterpoint:
There can be meaningful variability in a stone's mass distribution even when round and true, though not nearly as significant as when they are out of round (undressed). There are a number of patents, some as far back as 1905 & 1907, that speak to this specific problem.

Just in my own personal experience (last month), I just purchased a pair of premium Norton 3x stones. I found that the fine stone was well balanced after a process of shimming, truing and dressing to round . By contrast, the coarse stone was NOT well balanced even after the same treatment. After thinking about it for a bit, I pulled out my micrometer and measured the wheels in 8 equally spaced places around the perimeter 3 times (for validity checking). What I found was that the stone was "wedge shaped" tapering .008" from one side to the other. I returned the stone under warranty, and received a new stone.
Measurements: coarse: (imbalanced)
12:00 .755
3:00 .750
6:00.747
9:00.750

The new stone was better balanced, but not well enough to suit my liking, and not nearly as well as the fine stone. My conclusion was that I should consider the benefit of counterbalancing ANY stone to account for its inherent variability. As I researched the options, it became clear that solving this problem is extremely old, extremely common and extremely well-documented, precisely for the reason of variability. There are a number of methods for counterbalancing. Some are crude yet effective, but others are extremely refined.

Personally I've chosen to "simply" buy a oneway balance system for $69. I like it because the Oneway system is firmly attached to the wheel so the wheel will remain balanced if it's removed/replaced. My hope is that this will make it easier to remove a wheel, and replace it without much fuss (for example if I want to temporarily mount a buff or wire wheel). I could have quickly made a flange washer with counterbalancing holes for set screws tapped around its perimeter (a variant of of the 1905 patent), but that would mean each mount/dismount would require a fussy rework to achieve a true, round and balanced state.

I don't have the Oneway system yet, but I'll post some stats after it's set up. I always say that you can't improve what you can't measure, so I'm using a smartphone app that logs vibration data using the onboard accellerometer. I'll stick the phone to the grinder with plumbers putty to effectively transmit the vibration. I suspect I'll see good improvement, though it remains to be seen whether the product will make it sufficiently easy to 'quickly' swap out a stone for something else to eliminate the need for another stationary tool.

[Reed Gray]

With a CBN wheel, you don't need any of that. Well, except for a metal bushing.

robo hippy

[Jeffrey J Smith]

+1 for Don's advice for getting a good set of trued bushings before you start balancing and truing. I had a pair of Norton 3X wheels that really needed some help - about half the problem was the plastic bushings they supply. Once that was solved, the OneWay system - and learning how to properly dress the wheels - took care of most of the rest of the problem.
Had I known of Don's system before getting the OneWay balancer I would have gone that way. As it is, I switched to D-Way CBN wheels a while back and the same inexpensive grinder I really hated using because of the dressing and dust runs like a formula one car. No more dust, dressing or changing my grind settings for reduced diameter.

[Jack Gaskins]

With a CBN wheel, you don't need any of that. Well, except for a metal bushing.

robo hippy

HA! I was going to post a smart ace comment about a CBN wheel but RH beat me to it!

[Vince Welch]

HI Don,
Two things come to mind regarding your post. First, a number of years ago I was asking the same questions. For me it was a simple purchase of the Oneway System that allows me to sharpen more effectively without tool bounce! Second, the person who answered my forum question years ago regarding this topic showed me pictures of his grinder set up and I remember him saying how his wheels spin for a long time before they finally come to a stop, how he recommended the system! I remember installing the system and seeing for myself how my grinder now spun forever! The person who answered my question was Dave Peebles who just passed away last week. This topic was a discussion in which Dave and I spoke about in depth and I had forgot about this discussion till your post. Anyways, having trued and balanced wheels really make a positive difference in your grinding efforts. I understand Don G has a very nice set up as well. Vince