Sanity Check Needed - PCS Opportunity Cost

[Dave Sepucha]

I'm happily in the position where my wife is all for me getting the PCS with the 36 inch rails. I'd want to get the mobile base w/ 4 swiveling casters, dado cartridge, and extra inserts, let's just call it $3,400 before taxes and delivery.

Some background: I'm a newbie with a small shop and quite a bit of things on my shopping list. I've got the little ridgid portable contractor saw which I've been surprisingly impressed with but obviously has its limitations. I'm actually getting good dust collection with it now after some simple mods. I've also got a Festool TS55 which I love. I've been very impressed with the accuracy of the bevel and miters I've been able to create with it, but I REALLY see the benefit of using a MFT which I don't own. I'd like to upgrade my router table and get another router to use as a hand-held.

So... considering the PCS purchase got me thinking about what else I could do with the money. Here's a representative list of the sort of thing I've been considering:

Dewalt DW735 Planer $560.00
Planer Extension Tables $50.00
Ridgid R2930 Router Combo $290.00
Festool MFT/3 $575.00
Festool PS 300 Jigsaw $310.00
Festool Jig Saw Blades $20.00
Festool Guide Rail Kit $179.00
Festool TS55 Blades $100.00
Oneida Dust Deputy $100.00
Incra 24x36 Tabletop $209.00
Incra 17” LS Positioner $309.00
Incra Miter Express Combo $295.00

Total Cost: $2997.00

Now I'm not trying for a tablesaw-less shop, I'm just wondering if it makes more sense for me to put my money elsewhere at this point. Of course I could also get a cheaper table saw and go for the best of both worlds, but I'm thinking I'm sold on the PCS for when I do decide to pull the trigger on a new saw.

I feel like I'm on the right track in postponing the new TS. Am I missing something obvious?

[mark kosse]

My opinion? Your going in the right direction by not buying the saw.

[Brian Kincaid]

Dave,
I'm a Festool fan, but in all honesty there are better systems out there than the MFT table + components. Take a look at its size and ask yourself if it honestly has enough capacity to build the things you want to build.

You will be able to build lots of things with a good tracksaw system, work area, and solid router table. You might find yourself in a position that you don't need a table saw at all.

-Brian

[Mitchell Andrus]

Seems to me that if you don't already have those other tools, you'll soon miss having them and you'll be bulking up on most of those accessory tools anyway. Just gotta decide which list comes first... the short one or the long one.
.

[mreza Salav]

I'd get the table saw and buy the smaller items little by little.
It's a lot easier to save $200-$300 than $3k.
BTW, some if the items in your list are good (like the planer) but not so much with the others. I have used a Festool jigsaw but I think it's not really better (or that much better) than a bosch. BTW, how often do you use a jigsaw in a project? for me it's rarely (but a good TS is used very often).

One comment about your router choice: I was looking at getting that combo but the plunge base had too much of a play to my like. So double check that before buying.

Other things your list (other than a planer and a good router) are not as critical IMO.

[Dave Sepucha]

Thanks for the feedback. The list is definitely a representative sample of things I could get instead of the TS. I doubt I'd get the jigsaw as its definitely not something I'd use all that often. I've read lots of good things about the router, but I would want to check it out before buying.

Interesting comments about the MFT. In looking at the size, my initial reaction is that I'd want 2 just to get a bigger work surface. I do already have a bench, but I don't use it with the TS 55. I like that the MFT folds up and doesn't permanently take up a lot of space. For alternatives are you suggesting a shop built table, or something like EZ Smart?

[Rod Sheridan]

Dave, buy the SS, then accumulate the other stuff gradually.

A good table saw is one of the best investments in shop machinery you can make, and the safety of the SS makes it a no brainer.

Regards, Rod.

[Mike Henderson]

For most people the table saw is the center of the shop so I'd buy that first. When I was putting my shop together, my first purchase was a miter saw (because I was doing crown molding), then a table saw.

Mike

[Art Mulder]

All depends on what you're doing.

But I would point out that you should be able to get the DW735 for less than the price you quote. Be patient, watch for sales, and keep an eye on used.

...art
ps: and the PCS is on my wishlist also. But do have a few other priorities first...

[Chuck Isaacson]

Go for the TS..

[Alex Silva]

Get that SS table saw or buy a very nice bandsaw and turn into a ripping machine like i did. You'll need a bandsaw anyway one day. I also have the Festool tracksaw, one big router, 2 MFTs, one sander, domino, the T15 drill...

I love all my Festools and I use those tools everyday.

Now buy the Bosch jigsaw instead of the festool one or wait for the newer festool jigsaw. I also have the Bosch and it's a pleasure to use.

Cheers,

Alex

[Adam Shapiro]

Dave,
I'm a Festool fan, but in all honesty there are better systems out there than the MFT table + components.

I'd love to hear suggestions about an alternative to the MFT, which is probably great for portability but definitely lacking on size. What do you use that's better?

[Brian Kincaid]

I'd love to hear suggestions about an alternative to the MFT, which is probably great for portability but definitely lacking on size. What do you use that's better?

If you want a portable off-the shelf system check out ez smart (google).

For non-portable I built my own using a salvaged 8' walnut door, Incra TS-LS table saw fence, ez smart bridge. The big problem I had with the MFT was that for different thickness stock you had to move the rail hinges and square it up again. Next in line was the setup for each cut: remove the saw, tilt the rail, remove the stock, insert stock lower rail, put saw on rail, cut, ...

I wasn't blown away by MFT measurement devices / addons for squaring panels, mitering, etc. My setup using the ez bridge only had to be squared once for stock 0 to 3.5" th. I have a squaring stop that is over 3' long and never has to move. The whole setup is rock solid and I'm probably too proud of it and said too much already. :D

-Brian

[Joe Mioux]

Nice try but your wife doesn't want you cutting off your fingers. :rolleyes:

you will enjoy using your new PCS. ;)

[Greg Portland]

How small is your workspace? The one issue with table saws is that they take up a large amount of room. You will need infeed space as well as outfeed space.

There are two ways tools work; you either push wood through the tool or the tool through the wood. With the 1st method you'll need 2x the wood length in required space. The 2nd option only requires 1x the space. IMO, the 2nd option is ideal for smaller shops.

I've been able to build a lot of items with a TS55 and a Domino machine. Given your space constraints, I would look into getting the planer, a long Festool rail, a Domino, and a router (Dewalt has a rail attachment that unofficially works on Festool track). I agree that the MFT is pricey for stationary use. Look into clamping track (Kreg or other) and build a large table with ways to make square cuts (indexing pegs, etc.).

I agree r.e. the jigsaw... get the Bosch.

[Victor Robinson]

Dave,

I'm in the same boat as you. Trying to put off the SS purchase while stocking up on the other tools. The SS will take both plenty of money and plenty of space, and I'm seeing how long I can get by without a tablesaw.

Where I'm getting stuck is the ability to rip to width cleanly, especially narrow boards. I am hoping the bandsaw will be able to accomplish this, but at the moment it doesn't offer a very clean cut (stock blade). Hopefully with a Timberwolf on there it will be able to rip cleanly. At that point, the tablesaw will become a luxury, and I'll pull the trigger when I can as opposed to it REALLY limiting what I can do.

Jointing: jointer
Planing: planer
Ripping to width: circsaw for larger (or tracksaw in your case), bandsaw for smaller
Dados, rabbets, box joints: router table w/ Incra system
Tenons: router table or bandsaw

Would some of these things be faster or possibly cleaner on a TS? Definitely.

[Alex Silva]

With a planer and a festool track saw you can get rid of the TS and bandsaw. I'm not saying you'll work faster, but you can do it and it will be very precise.

1. face joint the board
2. put it in the planer to final thickness
3. clean cut one side with festool track saw
4. rip to final width + a tad more with track saw
5. plane to final width, using either of the edges as reference surface
6. crosscut to final length

so no tablesaw or bandsaw needed

only a jointer/planer and a track saw

cheers

alex

[mreza Salav]

With a planer and a festool track saw you can get rid of the TS and bandsaw. I'm not saying you'll work faster, but you can do it and it will be very precise.

1. face joint the board
2. put it in the planer to final thickness
3. clean cut one side with festool track saw
4. rip to final width + a tad more with track saw
5. plane to final width, using either of the edges as reference surface

alex

Do you really mean this can be done even for a 6" or even 4" wide and 1/4" thick board (i.e. plane it on the edge) or do you mean in most cases (when the width is smaller and the the board is thicker)?
Also, I haven't used the Festool system, but can you rip long boards, say 5-7'? Or rip very narrow pieces, say cut a 1.5" wide board into half?
I am trying to learn if these systems are a real substitute for a table saw or is it just a fancy skill saw on a track.

[Tri Hoang]

* Ridgid R2930 Router Combo $290.00/Incra table top $209 - get a milwaulkee 5625 and build a table top/cabinet with a Woodpeck router lift
* Festool jigsaw/blades $330 - not much improvement over the new Bosch model. Get the Bosch and save some cash.
* Dust Deputy $100 - Get a Ridgid WD1450 vacuum, some fine dust bags, and built a Thien Baffle on top of a 6G can. You could build the equivalent of the DD for about $20.
* Incra LS Positioner $309 - not worth the cost.
* Incra Miter express $295 - not worth the cost.
* Festool MFT/3 $575.00 - Table concepts are good but it is not worth buying. Instead of buying the MFT/3, build the table yourself. Don't even bother with aluminum rails, just use a some hardwood and sliding dovetails (stronger than T-slots)

-- Use the money saved to get a really good bandsaw & blade...say the G0513X2. A good bandsaw is indispensable, especially in a small shop.

-- Get a good set of chisels, a crosscut back saw, sharpening stones/grinder, quality squares/rules/dividers, marking tools, and at least a block plane. Learn to use a jointer plane & you will save some space by not having a power jointer. Anything less than an 8" power jointer is not worth the space. A hand jointer plane is better/faster than most.

It takes time to build up the shop. If you are not patience and rush into buying things before you are really sure, you'll waste a lot of money in the process. Avoid fancy gadgets...they are like a bottom-less pit.

Build things when you can because it helps improve your skills and saves you money. Besides, it custom-made!

[Alex Silva]

Do you really mean this can be done even for a 6" or even 4" wide and 1/4" thick board (i.e. plane it on the edge) or do you mean in most cases (when the width is smaller and the the board is thicker)?
Also, I haven't used the Festool system, but can you rip long boards, say 5-7'? Or rip very narrow pieces, say cut a 1.5" wide board into half?
I am trying to learn if these systems are a real substitute for a table saw or is it just a fancy skill saw on a track.

I meant in most cases.. If I had a 1 mm thick board I would simply not bother edge jointing it anyway.
You can rip very long boards.. 8' or more.. Festool is selling even a rail that is 5 meters long (15 feet) or you can simply connect 2 (or more) shorter rails. Yes you can cut a 1'' board into half without problems. You can either do it with the MFT or you can support your board on anything, put another board same thickness or close on it's side to support the rail and voila, rip that 1st board without any problems.

Alex

[Bruce Page]

It sounds like you have the luxury of buying a good table saw right out of the gate.
Many of us started out with lesser saws and upgraded. Get the TS first and fill in the other tools as you can. As someone said, it’s a lot easier to come up with a couple of hundred bucks to buy the smaller tools.

[Van Huskey]

Depens on how much more money and how quick you can spend it. I wouldn't want to work without a TS BUT with only a TS not much will get done either. I would look at others routes besides just the PCS. I may be out on a limb in here BUT why not do what just about every woodwrker has ever done, build a shop up from the bottom with less expensive tools that let you decide how you work and what you need.

[Chip Lindley]

You already have a TS which seems to do what you need to do. Spend your big bucks on other tools which can do different tasks, easier or more accurately. The tablesaw is only ONE tool in the shop! Many other machines are capable of maiming if wrongly used. Even more so than the tablesaw IMO. I've come closer to being seriously injured with a SkilSaw, a shaper, a router and a nail gun than a TS!

SawStop has hit upon the perfect sales strategy, exploiting both The Fear Factor, and Snob Appeal. The power of suggestion should never be underestimated! Millions of folks would not get a toe wet in their community swimming pool after watching Jaws in the '70s. Many now cannot crank up their TS without something extra to bolster confidence. By all means, use safe technique always! But nervous paranoia has no place in the shop. It makes for a defeatist mindset.

[michael case]

Lets put safety features aside for a minute. IMO you certainly want a quality table saw. Its the center piece of almost any cabinet shop. You need to rip wood consistently and rapidly. With a quality TS you can rip, cross, groove, dado, finger joint, tenon, miter, even cove and do it all quickly and precisely. There is a big difference between working with a heavy cabinet saw and struggling with a portable or contractor saw. I worked for years with cheaper saws as most of us have and if there is one upgrade I would recommend it would be to get onto a good TS. The Sawstop Proffesional is a quality machine. There are other quality machines for about a thousand bucks less. The safety feature is not bs however, it works. All the emotional arguments that come into play over this issue are silly IMO. You can injure yourself with other tools, but the TS is the number one culprit. You are appreciably safer with a SS it than without one. You are going to want a good saw eventually so it comes down to a thousand bucks. I would go for the Sawstop, but its your money not mine. Going for all the Festool stuff before you get a QUALITY table saw is IMO putting the cart before the horse. I would amend your list as well. As others have pointed out the Bosch jig saw would certainly serve very well. Also, why a rigid router? IMO the much better quality Bosch combo which is actually less money is a far better choice. The Dewalt Planer is nice (I own one myself), but you could certainly live with a less expensive planer. You might also think about getting some used tools. Anyway, you will want a good table saw sooner or later.

[Keith Albertson]

First things first......take your new list to your wife and see if "substitution" is even a topic for discussion!
In all seriousness, I'm a home hobbyist who had a Delta contractor TS for 15 years. I upgraded to a PCS a month ago and am ecstatic. I am amazed at what this saw can do. I can't say enough good about this saw, safety issues aside.

A key question for me is how much time I have to set up tools. Once a TS is set up, all you have to do is slide the fence to get a smooth, straight, reproducible cut every time.

I bought a bandsaw at the same time as I bought my contractor saw. I almost never use it. Way to much fiddle time to get it tensioned and tracking right, much less ripping straight. I rarely use my hand held jig saw.....I might use it to cut out a curved shape or break up plywood for easier handling, but not much else. A cheap one does fine for me.

Finally, it's pretty easy to borrow smaller tools from buddies when you need them. I don't have a planer, but my buddy does. I go to his house and plane down boards. He comes to mine and uses my jointer and bandsaw. But we both have our own TS, because they are the mainstay of our shops and we use them all the time.

Unless you're going to be moving you house or shop soon, get the PCS. Then buy the other tools as you need them...if you can't borrow them.

[Brian Penning]

I feel like I'm on the right track in postponing the new TS. Am I missing something obvious?

Show the Mrs. the Sawstop video and THEN ask her your question....

[Brice Burrell]

I'll add this if you decide to buy so Festool stuff. A rumor going around is that Festool's spring promotion will be 10% their plunge cuts saws and some of the saw accessories. The rumor isn't being denied by Festool or Festool dealers so I believe it's true. You could save a few bucks on TS55 blades. Another piece of advice, I wouldn't buy the Festool guide rail accessory kit. The angle unit in the kit is my favorite Festool product. Get the clamps and guide rail connectors separately and forget the kit. I also agree with the others on the Festool jigsaw, get the Bosch instead (or wait for the new Festool that might be out sometime next year).

Here's a thread right here on the Sawmill about building your own MFT (The poster said he spent $150 on materials, expect to spend more than that).
http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=135334

[Rick Moyer]

I'm happily in the position where my wife is all for me getting the PCS ....
BUT, is SHE onboard with your alternative proposal?

Personally, I wouldn't spend all my money on one tool when I really could use several. I know someone has said it's easier to save a few hundred than a few thousand, but you're still going to spend the same eventually if you need certain things. You will get varied opinions to your ponderings, but neither side is necessarily right. Only you (and the Mrs.) can decide this for yourself. Now if you can afford to spend what you need to get all the things you want, then, by all means, get the PCS.

[Sean Nagle]

If it were me I'd get the PM2000 at the current best price of about $2,500. You'd have the same or better quality saw as the PCS and $1K to spend on other goodies.

[Paul Ryan]

Your wife is giving you the go ahead to buy a safer table saw for $3400. But is she willing to let you spend $3000 on other tools but not make your table saw safer. My wife pushed my to a sawstop, but she would have told me to fly a kit if I would have decided to spend 3k all at once on other stuff and not update the table saw.

I say buy the sawstop you will be happy your did and never regret the purchase. That may not be the case with the other tools. It will also make your wife happy.

Or you could a different rout as others have said buy a high quality band saw, I personally lust for an MM16. With a high end band saw you can almost eliminate the table saw. You will need it for very few cuts. You maybe able to sell this idea to your wife because you wont use a table saw much and a band saw is a much safer tool than a table saw.

But I think the sawstop is your best route. The other tools will come in time.

[Kent A Bathurst]

......I feel like I'm on the right track in postponing the new TS. Am I missing something obvious?


You are on the right track. My alternate use of those $$ would be a different list, but that's not the point.

BTW - first thing I got was a TS. But, that's not some rule written down somehwere.

[Stephen Edwards]

If it were me and I was new to woodworking but ready to equip a shop with a budget of $3400.00, I would purchase a less expensive TS and as many other tools as possible to be able to start building projects.

I'm not suggesting that you buy a junk TS. There are a lot of fine WW who have built and are building quality pieces of furniture with a contractor TS.

I think that you're wise to be considering options.

[Matthew Hills]

One of my buddies got a PCS recently. He loves it (left his old craftsman saw out on the curb to get picked up -- he lives in SF, and nothing on the curb lasts long). He did point out some unexpected upgrade costs:
- sawstop recommends full-kerf blades. He replaced his old thin-kerfs
- if doing dados, will need a different cartridge and an 8" dado set

If you get this, it will be a good saw and your table saw angst is done. (Like others, I'm a bit dubious that you've actually got signature authority on a $3k slush fund :-)

Tri Hoang's alternate wishlist gets my stamp of approval. Although I'd probably include:
- dust collection as a high priority
- power to run dust collection + tools

Oh, and buy enough good wood to enjoy what you are making.

Matt

[tyler mckenzie]

table saw first, no question.

[Mike Zilis]

I would check out the SS Contractor. You get all the safety advantages, a high quality table saw and save about $1000 over the PCS.

-Mike

[Kyle Iwamoto]

IMO get the TS first. There are things that will be near impossible to do only with a track saw/band saw/planer/jointer. I think face frames would be very hard to do. That being said, you'll eventually need to get a jointer and planer.

So many nay sayers about the SS. If you can get the PCS, you'll be happy. As other SS owners have said, the saw is a top notch saw, not even considering the brake. YES, it is more expensive than any other saw. I value any of my fingers at more than a grand.

[Kevin Womer]

I would get a TS first, then dust collector then jointer and finally a bandsaw (I only wish I had made these purchases in this order). The TS is the heart of most shops, I hardly build anything where it isn't used, although there are always alternatives such as a router table for cutting rabbits etc... SawStop is a quality machine no question, but there have been a lot of people build tons of cabinets and furniture before this machine came along, and yes, they did it safely without mishaps. You could save a lot of money and buy another quality TS and have money left over for dust collection, jointer, bandsaw and even a decent router. You would benefit more from having the machinery to buy rough cut lumber and mill it to size with the previously mentioned machines as well as money to buy decent bits and blades. A number of decent cabinet saws are on the market for hundreds of dollars less and perform the task of cutting just as well as the SS. I would suggest you do get a cabinet saw over a contractors to begin, which was my first mistake I did later regret. I won't get into brands, just check out some saws firsthand and go with your gut decision, after all, you are the one who must be happy with your decision.

[Dave Sepucha]

Thanks again for all the replies. It's definitely interesting to read the different opinions. There were a bunch of questions thrown out, so I thought I'd answer a few.

My wife is OK with me spending the $$ on tools, and really likes the idea of a Saw Stop, but is not pushing me in any direction. So I really do have some flexibility here. Yes, I love my wife. ;-)

One thing I didn't mention is that I don't yet have my shop wired for 220 so that expense is in the back of my mind as well.

The suggestion of the PM2000 is exactly the sort of thing that's been giving me pause, but again, I like the peace of mind that the extra safety that the blade brake would offer me. This is not a full time job for me and is one of several hobbies, one where I'll spend a few hours per week on average. Based on some other activities I've been involved in, I feel like this level of "part-time" commitment is in a sweet spot for potential accidents. I know there are plenty of ways to get hurt... last year I took a hot taper bit to the wrist, and the worst injuries I've ever had with tools have been with a good ole wrench. There's nothing a blade brake would have done for me there. But I'm happy to take what I can get within reason.

Mike Z. read my mind. I've pretty much decided to go with the SawStop contractor saw and do my best to improve the dust collection. I've had good success with dust collection mods on my little ridgid saw, so I don't mind giving this a shot. I know that this saw isn't as powerful as the larger cabinet saws, but I'm convinced that it will be more than sufficient for the types of projects that I work on. Going this route gives me some dough to look at some other tools. I'd really like to upgrade my router table, and the planer remains on the short list.

Thanks again

[Greg Portland]

You need to rip wood consistently and rapidly.That is only the case if you are trying to make $$$. Hobbyists are not under the same constraints as professional cabinet makers. I have seen some incredible work created with a $200 benchtop saw. Properly tuned, it cut perfectly... it was just very slow.


With a planer and a festool track saw you can get rid of the TS and bandsaw. I'm not saying you'll work faster, but you can do it and it will be very precise.Please demonstrate how to cut a curve with your tracksaw. IMO, if the original poster already has a TS55, he should look at getting a bandsaw. This will allow him to make narrow rips & add curve cutting abilities to his shop.



Also, I haven't used the Festool system, but can you rip long boards, say 5-7'? Or rip very narrow pieces, say cut a 1.5" wide board into half? I am trying to learn if these systems are a real substitute for a table saw or is it just a fancy skill saw on a track.mreza, with the correct rail setup you can rip long boards (I believe there is a 16ft / 5000mm rail and you can hook multiple rails together with appropriate hardware). With my TS55 I have felt safe ripping a 4" board in half (rail / stile work) using cutoffs under the rail for stability. I would definitely hesitate before trying the same operation on a 1.5" board unless I was able to clamp the wood down in some manner (i.e. MFT cut may be OK, just using the rail would not be advised). Having said all of that, the Festool -is- just a fancy Skilsaw on a track. It just happens to work perfectly all day long with excellent dust collection. The track makes it very easy to eyeball exactly where the cut is going to occur & does not deflect. It is safer with the retracting blade and riving knife & will make a finish-quality cut. For some people this is worth the expense. For something simple to break down sheet goods a skilsaw + cheap track + decent blade will work very well (followed by final cuts on a TS).

[Matt Kestenbaum]

Just another 2 cents...about three months ago I set up shop and went through my own cost/benefit. Limited resources will force the decision making in a hurry! I didn't see anything in your posts about what kind of woodworking you are interested in...that is what kinds of projects. That should drive some of decision making. I also noticed that you did not list a jointer in the list. Planning to buy S2 boards? Planning to lots of trim/finish work around the house?

I am most interested in furniture...tables, case pieces, etc...so straight and square drove the decision making...TS over BS, etc. I opted for the SS PCS as the center piece -- and spent more on it than the rest combined. I don't regret it one bit. The piece of mind is, as the VISA ad goes, priceless. I also bought the DW 735 (got lucky with one of the HD discos)...build your own infeed/outfeed tables! They are cheaper and better (longer and you can cup 1/8" to eliminate any snipe). There is a free download from FWW mag online to building them. I made my big compromise going with the Grizzly jointer.

Just something else to keep in mind from one new shop builder to another...there are a million little costs that are hard to anticipate! And they add up! Bought a great PM used DC...hoses, fitting, after-market filter, and bags...they added up in hurry. Got a great deal on a bosch combo router (on sale plus a 20% coupon). Was surprised at how much a single carbide spiral up-cut bit set me back. Card scrapers were nice and cheap... burnisher for the card scraper was not. Bench grinder to sharpen edge tools was a bargain (closeout at Wdcraft)...did not anticipate the jig, wheel dresser or or stand (I built) in the cost. You get the picture.

[Chris Padilla]

Forget the table saw...get a bandsaw as the central tool in your shop! :D Bandsaws do not kick back like table saws (but they are still inherently dangerous, mind you....).

[Prashun Patel]

Do you have children? Is there a chance they can be near the saw, ever?
If yes, then get the Sawstop.

Don't sweat the small stuff.

Don't forget, it's not just a safe saw; it's a very good saw as well.

If yr not doing a lot of dado's, and really aren't gonna move it, then skip the dado brake and the mobile casters and use the $400 to buy some of yr goodies (I recommend a used jointer or planer).

Edit: Actually, that $400 might go into hiring someone to run 220v to your saw...

[Kurt Cady]

Boy am I glad I didn't have to make these kinds of decisions!

I agonized over a TS purchase before I found this forum and bought a R4511 in November with the Ridgid F&F discount.

Then, just my luck Everything from there fell into place. Refund on difference when TS went to $299. Bandsaw $190. Drill press $150. Jointer $200. All Ridgid.

I'm in the buy a nice TS and get the other stuff besides a SS group. I've very new to this but use all of those tools everytime Im in the shop. My plan is to upgrade as I outgrow or get that 'itch' for something new. Maybe that itch will be a SS one day. Who knows!

[Chris Kennedy]

I am hobbyist with a small shop. I made do for a little while, and bought a tablesaw when I had a small windfall. It is now the center of my shop. There are those who swear by bandsaws, and I cannot argue because I don't have one, but I cannot imagine trying to get things done without my tablesaw. It is a versatile and powerful machine. So, I will give my voice to the Buy A Tablesaw Crowd.

As for the Sawstop, I think it is a great innovation. I can't afford one, nor can I afford to be dismembered, so I guess I will have to be very careful. The one thing that always goes through my mind as a hobbyist, is that I could not do my day job without my hands. I don't know how I would feel if my day to day living was ruined because of my hobby. It's just a thought I always have. If I were to wreck my dominant hand, there would be a lot of problems.

The other thing is that you shouldn't dismiss the feelings of She Who Must Be Obeyed. She is willing to spend money for you to be safe, not necessarily to spend money on your hobby. When I needed a dust collector or the overarm guard on my saw, we both agreed that it was a wise investment. When I needed a low angle jack plane, somehow the wife didn't necessarily agree that I "needed" it. Spending the money for just tools without the safety factor may not go over so well -- she doesn't get any piece of mind because you get a jigsaw.

Just my take on things.

Cheers,

Chris