Fledgling Neander With A Question

[Jason Merck]

As the title says, I'm a just getting into the neander ways of woodworking. Actually, I'm really just getting into woodworking in general. I've always been interested, but never really had the time or room to do so. I've finally realized I need to make the time and now have a garage with plenty of room, so it begins. I hope one day to be able to come close to matching the quality of work that is seen here, but for now will be happy with being able to improve my skills on each project that I do. I want to mention a quick thanks to all of you that post on this forum, I'm currently up to page 36 on the Neanderthal Forum going through the past posts & pulling as much advice & info from them that I can. The amount of information that I have gotten so far has been incredible. This combined with my short experience in woodworking has helped me decide that I am going to steer heavily towards the non-tailed tools. I actually just received my first planes a couple of days ago and am getting ready to order some saws, chisels, & marking tools, etc. I'm slowly figuring out what I need as I go along.

Enough rambling and now to the question (if anyone made it through the first part):

I am getting ready to start on a bench. I need the bench to be fairly mobile. I technically have a three car garage - one of the sides is two car lengths deep (tandem). I have a couple of garage queens that will be moved out when I'm working, but they have to come back in at night so I need to be able to move everything back into the tandem part of the garage. Since I'm going to be moving the bench pretty regularly, I am thinking of putting casters on the bench. The casters worry me though that the bench wont be very stable. I'm wondering that if I butt the bench up against the wall and then plane towards the wall that would help keep it from moving around? Does anyone have a setup like this or any suggestions?

The other option I was throwing around was to build a traditional bench with legs, but build pieces with casters attached that would slip under the legs with the table jacked up. I would then move the bench to where I wanted it & reverse the process.

I know a mobile bench is not the most desired one to have, but in my case I think I need to go that route. I really don't want to have to drag a 200# plus bench all over my garage.

Thanks for any thoughts or suggestions that you can provide, and again thanks for all the information posted on this site. It is a great resource for beginners like me.

Jason

[Jim Koepke]

Jason,

Welcome to the Neander World.

I think some have made a system on their benches to have wheels on a hinged attachment on the legs. This lets them swing out of position when the bench needs to be solid and then with a lever or a piece of pipe can be swung back into place to allow the bench to be moved.

So, what kinds of projects do you plan to make?

jim

[David Gendron]

Welcome to the unplug side! Iwas thinking about the moving bench issue, and came up with this idea. What about building the bench so it as a cross piece in between the front and back strechers centered, that you could slide one of those car hydrolic jack on casters, so you could move your bench easily, but still have a steady bench to work on!?!

[Jason Merck]

Jim, thanks for the quick response. What you mentioned with a hinged wheel attachment sounds perfect. I definitely will look into that. Heck of a lot more simple than trying to jack up a bench & sliding casters underneath it.

As far as projects go, well were to begin. I'm fumbling my way through building a crate for a puppy right now & will start on the bench when that is finished. After that I plan to practice on joinery while also trying to making a few simple small boxes in different fashions. I'm thinking that will give me a foundation to progress to bigger pieces. An end table, hall table, and drafting table are down the line. To me it sounds like a big difference between those, but I think starting with the smaller projects will help me learn the precision & accuracy for the bigger pieces.

Thanks

[Jason Merck]

Welcome to the unplug side! Iwas thinking about the moving bench issue, and came up with this idea. What about building the bench so it as a cross piece in between the front and back strechers centered, that you could slide one of those car hydrolic jack on casters, so you could move your bench easily, but still have a steady bench to work on!?!

David, thanks for the welcome. The use of one of those hydraulic jacks was one of the thoughts that I had too, I already have one in the garage. I like the idea of the cross piece in between the stretchers and using that as the lifting point. I'm guessing I would probably want a vertical support that connects to the bench top to help support the weight? I was thinking of using one of those to lift it high enough to put the pieces with the casters on under the legs & then moving it, but the jack should be enough on its own. I really tend to overthink things like these...

Thanks

[Eric Brown]

I used both castors and leveling screws on my bench. The castors have the locking-in-all-directions feature, but it was stil a little shakey, and my bench weights 300+ pounds!!!! The leveling screws solve that problem and make leveling the bench easy. It isn't said very often, but it is important to have your benchtop and vices level. If not, you may find you are inconsistant on saw cuts, chiseling, etc. Here's my bench for reference:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=102856

Welcome to the slope.

Eric

[Jim Koepke]

One thing to consider is the easier to move and set up your bench, the more likely you are to do so.

If it is too much work to get started, you will not get started.

My thoughts on the doggy crate is you should try some practice on that. If just for the squareness of cut or to put in some rabbets or even one or two dovetails. It never hurts to have an old piece around to compare to your latest work. It also never hurts to find ways to practice.

jim

[Dewald van Lamp]

Hi, Jason!

I was in the same position a few years ago.

You CAN build a workbench on the floor of your garage, but you definately do not want to.

You need to build two sawhorses first.

I built collapsable sawhorses and I have found a million uses for them since. Check out the web, there are some great plywood plans out there. When not required they dismantle and store on the wall and out of your way.

With these you do not have to work on your knees, and you have a level surface on which to assemble and plane your benchtop and legs.

Wellcome to the slope..!

:)

[Jason Merck]

I used both castors and leveling screws on my bench. The castors have the locking-in-all-directions feature, but it was stil a little shakey, and my bench weights 300+ pounds!!!! The leveling screws solve that problem and make leveling the bench easy. It isn't said very often, but it is important to have your benchtop and vices level. If not, you may find you are inconsistant on saw cuts, chiseling, etc. Here's my bench for reference:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=102856

Welcome to the slope.

Eric

Eric, that is a nice looking bench there. I like those Noden adjustable legs and the extras that you have added on. How often do you find yourself adjusting the height, if you don't mind me asking? Does all the weight rest on the leveling screws? Thanks

One thing to consider is the easier to move and set up your bench, the more likely you are to do so.

If it is too much work to get started, you will not get started.

My thoughts on the doggy crate is you should try some practice on that. If just for the squareness of cut or to put in some rabbets or even one or two dovetails. It never hurts to have an old piece around to compare to your latest work. It also never hurts to find ways to practice.

jim

I agree completely about having to be easy to move. If it takes me 30 minutes to set up the bench & another 30 minutes to move it back, I won't do it if I only have an hour or two to work at nights. I need to be able to set it up in a reasonable amount of time. I have actually pretty much finished up the assembly of the crate. Put it together with a miter saw, pocket holes, and some dado's here and there. Needed to get it ready fairly quick (the puppy came a little earlier than expected). I'm going to use each project from this point to try to incorporate a new skill while at the same time continuing to improve my previous skills (which at this point aren't many). The bench is going to be simple, nothing exotic with the joinery. At this point I want it to be solid and sturdy (and mobile). I'm sure as I progress I will eventually learn what works for me as far as a bench goes & there will be another one built in the future with a better understanding of what I want (and yes I have read the books, so I have a decent idea of what to start with). That's kind of why I was thinking of working on some smaller boxes after that. Practice with dovetails, make sure everything is square & fits together correctly, that sort of thing. I'm guessing their is no true best path to follow - just get in there and do it. When I make a mistake (and there will be plenty) that just gives me an opportunity to learn how to fix it. Would you recommend starting with something other than the boxes? Thanks

[Jason Merck]

Hi, Jason!

I was in the same position a few years ago.

You CAN build a workbench on the floor of your garage, but you definately do not want to.

You need to build two sawhorses first.

I built collapsable sawhorses and I have found a million uses for them since. Check out the web, there are some great plywood plans out there. When not required they dismantle and store on the wall and out of your way.

With these you do not have to work on your knees, and you have a level surface on which to assemble and plane your benchtop and legs.

Wellcome to the slope..!

:)

Absolutely no argument here Dewald. There is no way my body would survive trying to do that work on the floors of the garage. I'm a fairly young guy, but with a blown out knee and ruptured disc in the back they would have to get a crane to lift me off the floor if I worked like that. Great suggestion, I'm definitely going to look for some of those plans.

Thanks

Jason

[Todd Reinbold]

Jason , I have the 4" casters from Rockler on my bench that have the dual locks, and I don't have any trouble with the bench moving when I'm planing. There is a picture of my bench in the general woodworking forum, but I don't know how to put it here. sorry

[Jason Merck]

Jason , I have the 4" casters from Rockler on my bench that have the dual locks, and I don't have any trouble with the bench moving when I'm planing. There is a picture of my bench in the general woodworking forum, but I don't know how to put it here. sorry

Todd, nice looking bench, found the pictures. How are you liking the tray so far? Are these the casters that you are using:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21980

Thanks

[Pedro Reyes]

This would be easier to draw than to explain.

My lathe bench has this set up, but alas I'm not home to snap a pic.

On two of the legs (same end, and preferably the heavier end) at the bottom of these legs I screwed on a cross piece close to the floor. On these cross pieces (practically horizontal, perpendicular to the legs) I attached a caster on each so that when I pick up the opposite end of the bench, the casters make contact and I can roll my bench around.

hope that makes sense

/p

[Pedro Reyes]

This is the best I can do with no mouse on my laptop and only paint, after a long day no less.

But I hope you get the idea, kinda like gym benches or beach lounge beds, where you tilt it on one end and it rides on wheels (casters) works if the floor is nice and even.What I tried to draw is a sideview of one of the legs.


http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu274/pars73/legdrawing.jpg

/p

[Eric Brown]

Jason, I can adjust the levelers and castors, move my bench, and re-level in less than 5 minutes. (That's not in any kind of hurry either.) All the weight is normally on the levelers. A side benefit is that the castors won't develop flat spots from sitting or moving on a concrete floor. As for your question about how often I raise/lower my bench, thats hard to say. I am currently working 6-7 days a week now with little time in shop. A better question might be: When do I change it. When cutting boards with a saw to length, my bench is usually lower than when cutting dovetails. Handplaning it might be lower still. Routing might be higher. I had one task where tilted helped. I lowered it all the way when I was assembling a taboret. It really just depends on what I am doing. I also find that adjusting the heigth reduces my doing things in an awkward way and sometimes if a pain starts to develope a simple adjustment makes all the difference.

So far I have been very happy with my bench and the only thing I would change is the location of the dog holes in the aprons. At the moment they line up with the top holes and sometimes my dogs and holdfasts want the same space.

Another reason for the adjustable heigth is that I will probably leave my best woodworking tools and bench to my niece or one of my two nefews. Shes 5'6" and the guys are both over 6'2". (I'm only 5'7").

On a side note: I love gadgets and my bench reflects that. Many on this forum would rather keep the bench clean and simple, saving the money for better tools. In Chris Schwartz's Bench Book, he has some basic guidelines for designing benches. I strongly recommend it. Also if you can, visit a fellow creeker or more and try their benches. It might help answer more of your questions.

Enjoy. Eric

[Jason Merck]

This would be easier to draw than to explain.

My lathe bench has this set up, but alas I'm not home to snap a pic.

On two of the legs (same end, and preferably the heavier end) at the bottom of these legs I screwed on a cross piece close to the floor. On these cross pieces (practically horizontal, perpendicular to the legs) I attached a caster on each so that when I pick up the opposite end of the bench, the casters make contact and I can roll my bench around.

hope that makes sense

/p

Pedro, that makes perfect sense & is a pretty ingenious idea. How big & heavy is lathe bench that you have this set up on, if you don't mind me asking? I'm looking at 7' x 28" range for my bench right now, so I'm wondering if it might be a little unwieldy with only two casters at that size. And on days with rain (since we seem to be back in the flooding season) only one the cars in the garage is allowed to go out. The other has to stay in as she is not allowed to see rain. So I'm also wondering how manuverable a 200-300 pound bench tilted on 2 casters will be in a small space. Will definitely consider your idea though.

Hope you are getting to enjoy these nice days we are having right now (I'm not too far south of you in San Antonio) before it starts raining again & then turns into 100 degree days all summer

Jason

[Dale Sautter]

Woodcraft has these:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Images/products/141550.jpg?rand=274184107

The first user comment says:



Use it to move my workbench to make room for larger projects. Makes moving a very heavy bench a breeze.


SALE $34.95
Save $10 Now Through March 27, 2010
#141550

hth...

[Jason Merck]

Jason, I can adjust the levelers and castors, move my bench, and re-level in less than 5 minutes. (That's not in any kind of hurry either.) All the weight is normally on the levelers. A side benefit is that the castors won't develop flat spots from sitting or moving on a concrete floor. As for your question about how often I raise/lower my bench, thats hard to say. I am currently working 6-7 days a week now with little time in shop. A better question might be: When do I change it. When cutting boards with a saw to length, my bench is usually lower than when cutting dovetails. Handplaning it might be lower still. Routing might be higher. I had one task where tilted helped. I lowered it all the way when I was assembling a taboret. It really just depends on what I am doing. I also find that adjusting the heigth reduces my doing things in an awkward way and sometimes if a pain starts to develope a simple adjustment makes all the difference.

So far I have been very happy with my bench and the only thing I would change is the location of the dog holes in the aprons. At the moment they line up with the top holes and sometimes my dogs and holdfasts want the same space.

Another reason for the adjustable heigth is that I will probably leave my best woodworking tools and bench to my niece or one of my two nefews. Shes 5'6" and the guys are both over 6'2". (I'm only 5'7").

On a side note: I love gadgets and my bench reflects that. Many on this forum would rather keep the bench clean and simple, saving the money for better tools. In Chris Schwartz's Bench Book, he has some basic guidelines for designing benches. I strongly recommend it. Also if you can, visit a fellow creeker or more and try their benches. It might help answer more of your questions.

Enjoy. Eric

Eric, thanks for the detailed response. I'm really liking the idea of adjustable height option. Although I'm 5'9", I have my temporary bench setup at 37" (an old maple butcher block kitchen table with make shift legs that wobbles more than I do after a couple of beers - yes I'm a light weight). I really like that height for some of the things that I'm doing, but I am already finding out that being lower would be much better for many tasks like you mentioned (and higher for that matter too). It doesn't look like you got the caster package from Noden, did you? It looks like you got your own casters & fabbed the assembly yourself, correct? Then welded it to the legs. The leveling screws appear to be in line with the legs as well?

I had originally planned on making everything myself. Building the leg & support assembly would be a good experience for me & then I could build boxes to raise the work/myself as needed. That would mean more things to store in an already tight spot when everything gets put up though, & organizational skills I am lacking. I think being able to work comfortably might trump the experience gained on constructing the legs myself in this case (I do realize that there will be a lot more to it than just bolting the Noden legs to the bench top).

I have read Schwartz's book once already, and will be reading it again before I set my final design. There was a lot of good info in there that I will definitely be taking into account when it comes time to start on the bench

Thanks

[Pedro Reyes]

...Hope you are getting to enjoy these nice days we are having right now (I'm not too far south of you in San Antonio) before it starts raining again & then turns into 100 degree days all summer

Jason

Jason,

Sadly I was in the west coast, raining there. But today I already planned to either turn something outside or plane an old 2x4 slab top I made a couple of years ago(which is not going to be a bench, but a grilling table).

Anyway. My lathe table is small, about 2'x4'. It is not that light but even with the lathe I assume it is less than 200lbs. It has a top made of 2x 3/4" thick MDF (heavy), and a frame made out of 2x6 SYP, with some plywood for structural strength. Even my bench is not a breeze to move with the casters. But if all you need to do is move it in line with its length, the casters work very well.

have fun

/p

[Jason Merck]

Jason,

Sadly I was in the west coast, raining there. But today I already planned to either turn something outside or plane an old 2x4 slab top I made a couple of years ago(which is not going to be a bench, but a grilling table).

Anyway. My lathe table is small, about 2'x4'. It is not that light but even with the lathe I assume it is less than 200lbs. It has a top made of 2x 3/4" thick MDF (heavy), and a frame made out of 2x6 SYP, with some plywood for structural strength. Even my bench is not a breeze to move with the casters. But if all you need to do is move it in line with its length, the casters work very well.

have fun

/p

That is what I was thinking, in line it would be perfect, but I am going to be storing it length wise along a wall & then moving it out into the open perpendicular to the wall so I move all around it (and have better light in that position).

Thanks