Snipe with my joiner.

[keith micinski]

So I have tried everything to eliminate the tiny amount of snipe that I get on the outfeed side of my board when I run it threw my joiner with no success. I have been working on my technique and have really been able to get some good results in all other aspects of using the joiner. I have spent a lot of time adjusting my tables and getting my blades all adjusted and I think I have everything in order. The problem is I have to have my blades a few thousandths above the outfeed table other wise I get very poor results and inconsistent boards. The biggest thing is that I get a really bad taper on my board if I don't have the blades a few thousandths higher. The only real downfall is that the last half to three quarters of an inch I get snipe. I really don't like to waste the wood and cut the snipe off even though I know that is an option. I guess I was wondering if anyone else has to have their joiner blades a little bit higher then the outfeed table or if I am the only one?

[Chris Padilla]

What kind of jointer do you have? I can't think of a good reason to NOT have the knives dead nuts level with the outfeed table...that is the whole point of a jointer after all....

Have you checked your jointer tables? Are they flat? Are the knives set correctly in the journal??

[Chip Lindley]

Knives should be only a couple of *thou* (.002") above the height of the outfeed table. The knives should barely *kiss* a straightedge or piece of flat wood held over the cutterhead on the outfeed.

An accurate straightedge (longer the better) will tell you if the tables are parallel, or not. Also, if your tables are flat across their length. Depending upon jointer type, you must adjust the tables for co-planar with the cam adjustment (newer parallelogram types) or with shims (older dovetailed type) It will be worth the time spent!

[Tom Hintz]

Snipe is almost always due to the knives being higher than the outfeed table. If you look at how long the snipe is you will see that it begins when the board "falls off" of the infeed table and the knives take that little extra bite to make the snipe.
As for the tapering, that is just going to happen, especially when a bunch of cuts are being taken trying to overcome a defect in the board. I have a story (link below) on this one topic (and a few others on jointers) at the link below. The jointer just has no way to keep two sides of a board parallel to each other. That is the job of the planer.

http://www.newwoodworker.com/jntrtaprs.html

[Lee Schierer]

Jointer blades as noted by others should never be higher than the out feed table or else snipe will result. The taper is a matter of having the tables exactly parallel with each other and technique. As soon as you can transfer the down force to the outfeed table you want to do so. You don't need to pus down like you are trying to crush the board into the outfeed, but just enough pressure to hold the board to the table.

If you have a lot of material to remove, flip the board end to end once every 3 or 4 passes, this will even out any taper. On some boards you can't do this on the final passes or you will get tear out so read your grain to minimize the chance of tear out on the clean up passes. You can also usually tell by ear if tear out is occurring.

[lowell holmes]

When I change the blades on my Jet jointer, I adjust the outfeed table to eliminate the snipe after the blades are installed. It is a trial and error thing, running a board through and adjusting until snipe is eliminated.

[Steve Orbine]

Tables need to lie in parallel planes, meaning the same plane when infeed height is at outfeed height. If the far end of the outfeed is a little high you will get some snipe as the board drops off the infeed table.

Once the tables are correct, adjust the outfeed as follows:

1. using, say, a 3-foot board, joint maybe 1/16" off of just 4 to 6 inches of one edge.

2. use a pencil to scribble some marks on the freshly jointed 4-6 inch section

3. flip the board around end to end and joint the whole edge.

Outfeed is properly set when the knives just kiss the pencil marks, leaving some and removing some.

[Ken Shoemaker]

I had the same problem. I went to a local glass shop and got a piece of tempered glass cut 3/8X4X16. (The 4" width was determined by the 5"width of the outer nuts that hold the blade in place.) I sharpened all my blades and cleaned the seats for the blades. I then;
1) dropped the sharpened knife in the seat.
2) Laid the glass on the outfeed table with one end hanging over the knife, centered between the outer nuts that hold the knife in place.
3) I placed a VERY STRONG MAGNET (from a computer hard drive) on top of the glass, over the knife. I could hear a distingtive "click" when the knife came in contact with the glass.
4) I tightned the outer nuts, removed the glass, tightened the remaining nuts.
5) Repeat with the two remaining knives.

All done within 15mins,not including sharpening the knives. ZERO snipe and/or scalloping!!!! My jointer (Delta X5 6") has never worked so well, including when it came out of the box.

BTW - I asked how much the glass was when I picked it up. They said, "No charge. We cut it from a piece of scrap." I dropped of a box of Krispy Kremes the next morning.

I'm convinced the quality of your jointer performance is related to the knives being EXACTLY the hieght of the outfeed table.

I hope this helps, Ken

[keith micinski]

I have a rigid joiner. The tables are coplanar with each other and the blades are all set to the same height. If I set the blades so that they are exactly the height of the outfeed table I almost can't use the joiner. It will taper a board almost half an inch before it will cut anything on the trailing edge of the board. When I hear people talking about getting a tapered board I could understand if the trailing edge of the board was getting cut more then the front edge. Mine is the opposite thoug. The more pressure I put on the out feed table the worse the taper is.

[Tom Hintz]

If it is taking anywhere near 1/2" off the front edge of the board before flattening the rest of it you have something wildly out of whack here. That is a huge amount of error for any jointer to make. Something is seriously ca-ca along the line someplace.
I would take a step back and start from the very beginning and look at the knives and work my way out from there.

[John Coloccia]

I had the same problem. I went to a local glass shop and got a piece of tempered glass cut 3/8X4X16. (The 4" width was determined by the 5"width of the outer nuts that hold the blade in place.) I sharpened all my blades and cleaned the seats for the blades. I then;
1) dropped the sharpened knife in the seat.
2) Laid the glass on the outfeed table with one end hanging over the knife, centered between the outer nuts that hold the knife in place.
3) I placed a VERY STRONG MAGNET (from a computer hard drive) on top of the glass, over the knife. I could hear a distingtive "click" when the knife came in contact with the glass.
4) I tightned the outer nuts, removed the glass, tightened the remaining nuts.
5) Repeat with the two remaining knives.

All done within 15mins,not including sharpening the knives. ZERO snipe and/or scalloping!!!! My jointer (Delta X5 6") has never worked so well, including when it came out of the box.

BTW - I asked how much the glass was when I picked it up. They said, "No charge. We cut it from a piece of scrap." I dropped of a box of Krispy Kremes the next morning.

I'm convinced the quality of your jointer performance is related to the knives being EXACTLY the hieght of the outfeed table.

I hope this helps, Ken

Brilliant.

[Mike Archambeau]

I had the same problem. I went to a local glass shop and got a piece of tempered glass cut 3/8X4X16. (The 4" width was determined by the 5"width of the outer nuts that hold the blade in place.) I sharpened all my blades and cleaned the seats for the blades. I then;
1) dropped the sharpened knife in the seat.
2) Laid the glass on the outfeed table with one end hanging over the knife, centered between the outer nuts that hold the knife in place.
3) I placed a VERY STRONG MAGNET (from a computer hard drive) on top of the glass, over the knife. I could hear a distingtive "click" when the knife came in contact with the glass.
4) I tightned the outer nuts, removed the glass, tightened the remaining nuts.
5) Repeat with the two remaining knives.


All done within 15mins,not including sharpening the knives. ZERO snipe and/or scalloping!!!! My jointer (Delta X5 6") has never worked so well, including when it came out of the box.

BTW - I asked how much the glass was when I picked it up. They said, "No charge. We cut it from a piece of scrap." I dropped of a box of Krispy Kremes the next morning.

I'm convinced the quality of your jointer performance is related to the knives being EXACTLY the hieght of the outfeed table.

I hope this helps, Ken

Ken;

That idea with the glass is superb! Did you come up with that on your own? I am going to try it myself.

[Neil Brooks]

Ken,

Count me in as loving that idea :)

Thanks!

[Chris Padilla]

3) I placed a VERY STRONG MAGNET (from a computer hard drive) on top of the glass, over the knife. I could hear a distingtive "click" when the knife came in contact with the glass.

Cool trick...I guess one needs to make sure that when the blade hits the glass that the blade is at its maximum arc.

[Ken Shoemaker]

I'm not smart enough to come up with this on my own. I saw it somewhere and gave it a try. My jointer and I have a much better relationship since then.

The other guy had glued his magnets to the glass. I didn't do that because I might use it for sharpening or something. It worked fine without being glued.

CHRIS - Your right. Making sure the knife is at TDC is the difference between sucess and failure.

Give it a try, I bet you'll like.

Ken

[Neil Brooks]

Cool trick...I guess one needs to make sure that when the blade hits the glass that the blade is at its maximum arc.

Off hand, I can't think of how freely my blades turn, but ... I'm thinking ... if it's at all an easy spin ... the strong magnet ought to put it at it's highest point, automatically, no?

Either way ... no harm in manually ensuring that it is....

[Lee Schierer]

I have a rigid joiner. The tables are coplanar with each other and the blades are all set to the same height. If I set the blades so that they are exactly the height of the outfeed table I almost can't use the joiner. It will taper a board almost half an inch before it will cut anything on the trailing edge of the board. When I hear people talking about getting a tapered board I could understand if the trailing edge of the board was getting cut more then the front edge. Mine is the opposite thoug. The more pressure I put on the out feed table the worse the taper is.

I think you need to recheck that your tables are parallel to each other.

[Chris Padilla]

I'm not smart enough to come up with this on my own. I saw it somewhere and gave it a try. My jointer and I have a much better relationship since then.

The other guy had glued his magnets to the glass. I didn't do that because I might use it for sharpening or something. It worked fine without being glued.

CHRIS - Your right. Making sure the knife is at TDC is the difference between sucess and failure.

Give it a try, I bet you'll like.

Ken

Well, the knives on my Tersa head are indexed and so I couldn't adjust them if I wanted to! :p I use a 50" aluminum straight-edge from Lee Valley to set the height of the outfeed table with the knives. I can easily spin the journal by hand and just lightly scrape the straight-edge.

[keith micinski]

Question about taper then. Which way will the board usually taper. I have gotten the impression that the back side of the board is generally tapered smaller then the front side of the board. The way the joiner is setup now I can make perfect boards except for the smallest amount of snipe. My tables are perfectly level and coplanar with each other everything works great except for that little bit of snipe.

[glenn bradley]

Question about taper then. Which way will the board usually taper. I have gotten the impression that the back side of the board is generally tapered smaller then the front side of the board.

Jointers make one surface flat. Planers make them parallel. Any irregularities are eliminated as the planer flattens the side opposite the flat one created by jointing. :)

[Tom Hintz]

Question about taper then. Which way will the board usually taper. I have gotten the impression that the back side of the board is generally tapered smaller then the front side of the board. The way the joiner is setup now I can make perfect boards except for the smallest amount of snipe. My tables are perfectly level and coplanar with each other everything works great except for that little bit of snipe.

For the jointer to snipe one or more of the knives has to be higher than the outfeed table. That just has to be or it can't cut the snipe. If you look at how shallow the snipe is, that is the amount of error you are looking for on one or more of the knives so this can take a little "perfecting" to get right. this is one of the reasons I like using a dial indicator to set my knives. I can actually see that small of an error and adjust it out.

[Josh Bowman]

Hey Guys,
Great timing of this thread. Between your comments and others, I think I've fixed my jointer......but now the blades are dull:o So I've got to sharpen them and go through it again. I checked my jointers tables, the in feed was 1st high. Took it apart and cleaned the ways. They had waxey gunked up grease in them. Then put it together and it was now low in the back! So put a couple of shims in and it's close now. I adjusted the outfeed to just touch a ruler and 0 with a dial indicator. But still made bad wedges. So I LOWERED the outfeed a little and gave myself snipe on purpose. RAISED it a tiny bit, got less snipe. Continued until the snipe JUST went away. I then rejointed some boards I had made wedges with earlier and it did just fine. Apparantly that out feed height is touchy and even using a dial indicator, I couldn't do better than the snipe and raise method did. I will say that method is less tedious.

[Myk Rian]

Apparantly that out feed height is touchy and even using a dial indicator, I couldn't do better than the snipe and raise method did. I will say that method is less tedious.
I'll lay a steel ruler on the outfeed, just over the knives. When I rotate the head, it will move the ruler 1/8". I call it quits when I get that.

[Chris Padilla]

I'll lay a steel ruler on the outfeed, just over the knives. When I rotate the head, it will move the ruler 1/8". I call it quits when I get that.

I assume you mean the knife grabs the ruler and pulls it 1/8"?? It obviously does not RAISE the ruler an 1/8"!! :)

[Jason White]

This video with John White helped me solve that issue....

http://www.finewoodworking.com/subscription/skillsandtechniques/skillsandtechniquesarticle.aspx?id=31033



So I have tried everything to eliminate the tiny amount of snipe that I get on the outfeed side of my board when I run it threw my joiner with no success. I have been working on my technique and have really been able to get some good results in all other aspects of using the joiner. I have spent a lot of time adjusting my tables and getting my blades all adjusted and I think I have everything in order. The problem is I have to have my blades a few thousandths above the outfeed table other wise I get very poor results and inconsistent boards. The biggest thing is that I get a really bad taper on my board if I don't have the blades a few thousandths higher. The only real downfall is that the last half to three quarters of an inch I get snipe. I really don't like to waste the wood and cut the snipe off even though I know that is an option. I guess I was wondering if anyone else has to have their joiner blades a little bit higher then the outfeed table or if I am the only one?

[Josh Bowman]

This video with John White helped me solve that issue....

http://www.finewoodworking.com/subscription/skillsandtechniques/skillsandtechniquesarticle.aspx?id=31033
Jason,
Thanks, I watch that video 2 times and got the idea. After last night and kind of getting my jointer setup, I found I needed to sharpen the blades. So back down it went. Got the blades back with a little help from the Bob Vaughn Utube video. Then set the outfeed as directed in your video and slowly raised it until the joint was good. I've now jointed 3 boards, faces and edges. They:D look wonderful. The boards are so flat, when I went to pick one up off my tablesaw, it kind of sucked itself back....no kidding. Now I'm ready to glue up 1 of the legs of my Roubo bench.

[Myk Rian]

I assume you mean the knife grabs the ruler and pulls it 1/8"?? It obviously does not RAISE the ruler an 1/8"!! :)
Correct. It moves it 1/8"

[Jason White]

Glad it worked for you!

Jason



Jason,
Thanks, I watch that video 2 times and got the idea. After last night and kind of getting my jointer setup, I found I needed to sharpen the blades. So back down it went. Got the blades back with a little help from the Bob Vaughn Utube video. Then set the outfeed as directed in your video and slowly raised it until the joint was good. I've now jointed 3 boards, faces and edges. They:D look wonderful. The boards are so flat, when I went to pick one up off my tablesaw, it kind of sucked itself back....no kidding. Now I'm ready to glue up 1 of the legs of my Roubo bench.