Dust Collection System

[Ken Kirkeby]

Newbie woodworker here. I just moved from northern California to southern Utah and got the shop I've always dreamed of. I get 2/3 of the 3-car garage (thanks honey!). The shop is 38' x 27'. I'm looking for suggestions for a dust collection system. Amoung other equipment, I have a 13" planer, 6" jointer, 10" Jet contractor T/S, router table, miter saw w/ stand, etc. Price is a factor but functionity is paramount. The shop will have 2 separate 115v circuit and two 220v outlets (I'm rewiring my t/s).

Thanks, Ken

[John Miliunas]

Hi Ken! Welcome to the Creek! :) OK, I'm sure you'll get a ton of tips, hints and opinioins on this one. Here's my take: That's a BIG shop. If you're in the position to be doing the wiring now, put in more than (2) 220v and (2) 110's. Any decent DC system will eat up one of the 220 circuits right off the top and proper lighting will take, at least, one more 110 circuit. That leaves you with a single of each left! :( It may be enough for now, but you need to think of future needs and, if you can swing it in there now, it's best to do so.

For the DC system, do not pass "GO", do not collect $200.00. Go directly to a cyclone and 6" ducting and, go as close to the equipment with the 6" as you can! I think the "top contendors" for a cyclone will be: Oneida, Woodsucker or the kit designed by Bill Pentz. :)

Good luck and keep us posted with progress or questions! :cool:

[Greg Narozniak]

Congrats on the new shop!! My garage (Shop) is similar in size to yours. When I first started WW in this shop a couple of years ago. I only had 110v @ the time and I purchased a Jet 1100 DC. 1½ hp with an 11¼" impeller. I used 6" PVC for the ducting and only used it on one outside wall in a straight run about 12" off the ground with 4 drops. 2 6" and 2 4". I added 1 micron oversized upper and lower bags from AFF and it pulled good for me.

Once I added more equipment The machine started to struggle keeping up a little not really too much. The bags started to become a hassle for me to clean. Beating the upper bag with a stick constantly and it was always a mess empting the bottom bag. And the whole thing got worse when I used MDF. Even with the air cleaner running there was always the fine settling of dust on all the tools the next day.

After some electrical changes I was then on the fence about a new Cyclone, my debate was to either build one or buy one. Lots of info here about that. Once I had added up total price on both sides, I chose to buy one and went for a Oneida 2hp Commercial unit. It was rated very very high (here and In the Mags) and once I got over the sticker shock I was AMAZED how there was no settling dust anymore WITHOUT the air cleaner running. I used the same 6" dusct work added more drops extended the run and it SUCKS like crazy. :D :D

All Cyclones units that really perform (That is the key, There are cheaper ones But You Get what you pay for) are pricey but with all the health concerns about wood dust I knew that it was a worth while investment for not only myself but my family as well (With the garage being attached to the house) No More dust in the living room.

As with any tool purchase try to look beyond your current needs and look toward the future and IMHO buy smart and buy once. Others will chime in and you will get a a lot of good advise here on this topic.

Let us know what you decide.

Greg

[Mathew Nedeljko]

Ken, welcome to the Creek!

Please take this comment for what it is, with tongue in cheek ...:) but is there any chance you could get all three bays in the garage if the dust is really bad?


Not my recomendation, mind you... just asking!

[Chris Padilla]

Ken,

Muttle your way through this thread:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=9933

I posted about the BP/CE DC kit (cyclone) I built.

Also, read here on Bill's site more than you ever wanted to know about DC:

http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

Have fun! :)

[Ken Kirkeby]

The answer to your question is ... not if I want to stay married. I took the entire garage in our California home and it was always point of contention, especially if it was raining :)

[Dave Brandt]

Now that's funny, Mathew!

Nice shop space Ken! Listen to these guys (carefully with Mathew), they'll save you money in the long run. I've got a wimpy collector and the shop's a mess most of the time.

[Steve Swinton]

Ken,

Contact Oneida and send them a sketch of your workshop. Indicate where you plan to place your machines. They will design the dust collection system for you, provide a parts list and a price. My shop is 22 x 32 and they designed a system that was right for me and it works great.
Good luck,
Steve

[Steve Cox]

Ken,

I am just finishing up wiring my 2 car garage shop. I have put in 7 220v ckts and 2 110v for outlets plus another one for lights. The 7 are for tablesaw, bandsaw, jointer, planer, air compressor, cyclone plus one extra (probably shaper). Just a thought as you think about wiring now and in the future. As far as dust collection goes, I went from a Jet DC-1200 to a Woodsucker and couldn't be happier. While it seems Oneida gets all the good press, the Woodsucker does as good a job and is considerably cheaper. As for building one, your skill level and time committments are up to you but I didn't see that much of a cost savings buying a kit versus the Woodsucker. Read Bill Pentz's website thouroughly and you will see that it's not about horsepower, it's about efficiency.

[Chris Padilla]

Steve,

I'm curious, with 7 240 V outlets, how many are own their own circuits and how many are simply daisy-chained?

For my garage (in the midst of a remodel right now), I have the DC on its own 240 V circuit and 3 240 V outlets on 1 circuit and another set of 3 on another circuit.

[Ken Kirkeby]

I may have been misunderstood about the electrical outlets in the shop. There are 8-115v outlets on one breaker (they were already in the garage at shin level). I'm having another 115v breaker installed (number of outlets to be determine); located about waist level. I'm also installing a 220v breaker but I sounds as if I should have more than two outlets installed.

Thanks for all the help so far ....

K

[Chris Padilla]

Ken,

The dust collector absolutely should have a dedicated 240 V outlet. If you have a compressor, odds are good that it should also have a dedicated 120 V (or 240 V if it is a big one) outlet. After that, assuming a one-man shop, you can have as many 120 V (15 A or 20 A?) circuits/outlets as you want. All the 120 V in my shop is 20 A.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Ken....Welcome to the 'Creek!....If I may.......I just had a new shop built and am starting the electrical roughin this weekend. You might consider putting your new 110 outlets at a height greater than 48". Mine will be there. Then in the event that you lean a 4'x8' sheet of sheetgoods up against the wall...the outlets are still readily accessible. Again......Welcome to the 'Creek!

[Steve Cox]

Chris,

All of my 220 outlets are on their own circuit. The cyclone and the compressor because they had to be and the others for a couple of reasons. The main one is that while I don't anticipate re-arranging the shop anytime soon you never know and I don't want to re-wire if I do so.

Ken,
As you are wiring, don't forget to think about the ceiling as well. I have a drop cord powering my tablesaw so that I don't trip over the cord walking around the shop. I also have a retractable cord that is over the end of my bench which is in the middle of the shop.

[Frank Pellow]

Hi Ken, that a BIG shop that you have there. It puts your shop into the top 20% in size in the shop characteristics table that I maintain in the thread: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=12202. By the way, the information re your shop will be in the table the next time I publish it. How high is the ceiling, is the garage attached, how (if at all) do you heat it, and what is the floor made of. (For those wondering about the last two questions, I am in the process of adding this info to the table).

I agree with others that you need more 240 volt outlets. Also, they should be on more than one circuit. My under construction garage will have 6 240 volt outlets (3 ceiling, 3 wall) on 4 circuits (and wire has been routed to junction boxes in order to add up to 5 additional outlets should the need arise).

My recommendation re dust control is the Oneida 2hp commercial unit (and people talking about sticker shock in the USA for this, should see what I paid for it in Canada -NOW THAT IS SHOCK). I though a lot about building to Bill Pentz's design but decided to spend more money rather than take more tiem.

[Greg Narozniak]

Ken....Welcome to the 'Creek!....If I may.......I just had a new shop built and am starting the electrical roughin this weekend. You might consider putting your new 110 outlets at a height greater than 48". Mine will be there. Then in the event that you lean a 4'x8' sheet of sheetgoods up against the wall...the outlets are still readily accessible. Again......Welcome to the 'Creek!

I agree 100% with Ken. This was a great tip that I found here. I put the outlets I added over 48” and it made life a lot easier when I added a miter saw and radial arm saw bench along that wall.

Another good Tip was the following;

I added six 20amp (12/2 Wire) 110Volt circuits with double gang outlets in each box and in a tip I picked up on one of the woodworking boards was this. I wired some of them like this, Four of the outlets that are in a straight run I made the first gang of outlets in the run from the panel GFCI outlets and then for the rest of the run all the right side outlets were on the same circuit and all the left side outlets were on the same circuit. The reason for this is so if you are working in one area you; in essence, you have 2 separate 20amp circuits available in one location. I thought it was a great idea.

As far as 220V I added four 30amp (10/3 wire) 220v outlets with 30amp twist lock plugs with each on their own breaker. One for the Oneida, One for the Unisaw, One for the Compressor (Have yet to convert it to 220volt) and one for a Jointer in the future.

Plan ahead and somewhere I read that Outlets are like clamps and you can never have too many.

[Steve Cox]

Another way to handle the 110 outlets (what I did) was to alternate ckts on each one around the room. Used more wire but if I have something that takes lots of juice, I know that the outlet on either side is on a different ckt if I need to plug something else in.

[Frank Pellow]

Another way to handle the 110 outlets (what I did) was to alternate ckts on each one around the room. Used more wire but if I have something that takes lots of juice, I know that the outlet on either side is on a different ckt if I need to plug something else in.
I did the same thing.

[Ken Kirkeby]

I was planning on putting any new outlets at about 48" as suggested by someone and I'm putting them everywhere (both 220v & 115v). Also, when the new lighting is put in, I want some outlets on the ceiling. I put 2 - 8ft flouresent (dual) fixtures in but I'm going to need more.

BTW, the garage in completly finished with 9' foot ceilings.

Wanna hear something funny? When I moved in, this 38 x 27 garage had TWO 60w bulbs lighting the place. No joke.

Pics to follow on my progress ...

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Ken.....

My 110 wall outlets are on 4 different circuits. No two consecutive oulets are on the same circuit.

I am also putting 110 outlets (a 5th 110 circuit) in the ceiling and.....on my lighting cicuits I'm putting an additional 9 (switch controlled)outlets for future lighting needs. I envision that I'll want to move benches etc.....as experience demands.

My 220 outlets (8 total) will be on separate 30 amp circuits. I started with a Square D "QO" box....space for 30 breakers.....I'll have two empty spaces when it's all wired.

Of course, I am working with uncovered walls right now and now is the time to do it! I'm also adding a capped 1" conduit coming out of the breaker box. The conduit will go up into the attic where it will extend above the insulation and be capped. If in the future I need to expand or add a circuit..."the way" is already there.

Good luck with your electrical! Working with a finished room is a lot harder than "new, uncovered" walls!

[Steve Cox]

My shop (garage) is completely finished with insulation in the walls but not in the attic (go figure). This being the case I installed all the outlets surface mounted and used MC cable (flexible conduit with conductors installed) to get the wiring up into the attic where I used J-boxes to connect to romex going back to the panel. That way the only drywall I had to remove was where the panels were. I installed a new panel right next to the old one and used the sub to run all my outlets. I put my lights, heater, air filter, and door opener in the old panel. When I leave the shop I turn off the sub, lock the panel and no one can run any power tools but lights etc still work. I have little kids in the house and I wanted some safety built in for when they are older. Just a consideration.

[Scott Behrens]

Hey guys, I read through that old thread on dust collection and I have to say it is great. I plan to build a systme here in the next year or so and I can tell that thread will be essential material. Just wondered if you know how long it will be kept around? Maybe I should print it so I am sure to have it when I get around to building a cyclone. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for all the great info you guys have on here.

Scott

[Jay Albrandt]

Ken,

What I did.....

As far as the dust collection, go with a cyclone. Nothing else compares and for that much space, plan for a unit that has a 3 hp rated motor and 14" impeller. Use 6 inch pvc duct as far as possible, and modify the tools for 6" flex hose connections. Use 4" flex hose only when the tool is not a large dust maker. I built Bill Pentz's designed cyclone. I bought the kit through Clark Echols. It was fun and easy, but it did take some time. They now have fully fabricated models for sale, but I understand they are on back order.

As far as electrical, wire a sub panel for easy access. Consider 2 - 15 amp circuits for lighting and your door opener, 2 - 110v 12 guage wall circuits at least 40 inches off the ground, 2 - 220v, 20 amp 12 guage circuits, and at least one 220v 30 amp 10 guage circuit. Put the cyclone on it's own 20 amp circuit, and that leaves you another 20 amper which is plenty for a one man shop (you can only use one tool at a time). The 20 and 30 amp circuits will allow you to grow into your shop with all the 2 and 3 hp tools you want. Put all your wiring in conduit so as your shop grows and tools change, you can simply move things around.

Good Luck

[markus shaffer]

Ken,

I also recommend a cyclone. I went with a 2hp commercial Oneida. It keeps up with whatever I throw at it.. I have a 20" planer and often run boards 15" and wider through it.. The cyclone can handle it no problem.. I even leave the 2 blast gates (5" and 3") to my tablesaw open all the time.. I had Oneida do the ductwork design as well. They did an excellent job and were very knowledgable.. If you go with the Oneida, and your ceiling height permits, get the wye that splits at the bottom of the cone so that you can have 2 barrels. I barely have room for their small collection barrel and I can fill it 3-4 times a day if I'm running a lot of wood through the planer.


-Markus