Super Nova2 and the "wrong" insert

[Bob Borzelleri]

There's been a bunch of SN2 postings lately what with the Woodcraft sale and all. I posted that I had saved a few bucks on the Woodcraft insert over the Teknatool insert for my Nova 1624-44 and now I wish to retract that statement and set the record straight.

You should not use any insert but the Teknatool insert for the SN2, period. While we're at it, pass on those nylon washers, too.

I have two SN2 chucks. One has the Teknatool insert and the other the Woodcraft version. Both wobble.

I called Tim at Teknatool (extremely helpful fellow) and we figured out the following (actually, he knew all along). The SN2 needs to mate with the insert with the end of the insert sitting flush on the inner surface of the chuck. The Woodcraft insert is too short to mate with the surface. The only contact you have is the thread contact and that can change every time you mount up or loosen/tighten the insert. The result will be wobble. Sometimes a little, sometimes a lot.

The SN2 that I had set up with the Teknatool insert was also wobbling. The culprit here was those spiffy $1.95 nylon washers that are supposed to make it easier to remove the chuck from the spindle. Tim told me that, for some reason that he doesn't understand, maybe they have inconsistent densities, (my thought, not his) they won't allow the insert to sit flush and even on the spindle face.

After removing both the Woodcraft insert and the nylon washer from the equation, both SN2s are now running quite true.

So forget What I said about saving a few bucks on the insert, this is clearly a case where you get what you pay for. And, in the case of the nylon washer, you get less than what you paid for.

[Bob Haverstock]

Bob,

Thank you for stepping up to the plate. You have saved me some grief.
I tend to be a cheapskate and take the low buck route. It's good to know that I was about to mess up before the fact.

Bob Haverstock

[Eric Kosanovich]

Bob,
If it's not to much to ask can you post a photo of the part/parts in question.
I'm a little slow on the chuck parts and i have a wobble prob.

Thanks Eric

[Jim Slovik]

I had the same problem. I thought I was saving $17 and I ended up wasting $6. Live and learn.

[John Keeton]

Thanks for the post!! I always spin my chuck up against the mating surface just to make sure I am getting good contact before I spin the lathe. Never really looked at the cheapie insert, but it makes sense - as does the washer.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Thanks for the post! I will have to check where my insert came form, since I bought my SN2 from WC. I use it on my "big" lathe, which is a shopsmith, so chuck runout may not be noticable.... :eek: If/when I upgrade, I may need to upgrade.

[Bob Borzelleri]

Bob,
If it's not to much to ask can you post a photo of the part/parts in question.
I'm a little slow on the chuck parts and i have a wobble prob.

Thanks Eric
Eric...

I'm on the way to return the WC insert. I'll take a photo of the two inserts with my phone when I get there.

...Bob

[Mike Minto]

yes, i've read that those nylon washers are a bad idea, also. companies that sell turning supplies should be more careful in what they sell in pursuit of the 'almighty dollar'.

[Nick Mastropietro]

Thanks for setting the record straight, I was seriously considering purchasing a few of those washers - gee it seemed like such a good idea, ya know not jamming your chuck on the spindle. It takes character to admit an error in judgement. Your a stand up guy!

[Mark Hubl]

Bob,

I too had the same experience with inserts. When I upgraded to my Nova 16-24 I bought a new SN2 as well. Woodcraft was out of the Teknatool inserts so I bought the Woodriver since it "seemed" to fit. Alas, wobble. Replaced it with Teknatool part and all was well.

[Eric Kosanovich]

So... it's the Woodriver inserts that is the bad part?
I have the Woodriver inserts and the wobble but i also have the Woodriver Chuck.

[Roger Chandler]

Hello,

I own a SuperNova and now a SuperNova 2. Both definitely need the correct inserts, which would be nova made by teknatool. As far as the anti-lock spindle washers, if it prevents your chuck from seating correctly on your spindle, then wobble will result.

My lathe that broke a few months back was a Sears Craftsman, and it was a bear about causing the chuck to lock up on the spindle, and I had to use strap wrenches, pipe wrenches, etc to remove face plates and sometimes the chuck. I bought my nylon washers at the hardware store after seeing them in the catalog for Craft Supplies. They stopped the lock up problems, and I was glad to have gotten them.

Now with my new lathe, the way the spindle is machined, it mates up with the chuck insert, and there is no way I would put one of these washers on the spindle, as it would not allow the chuck to seat all the way on the spindle, and therefore would probably cause a wobble.

My new SN2 chuck runs true, just as my old SN also runs true. These are great chucks that will match up with anything else on the market.

[Bob Borzelleri]

So... it's the Woodriver inserts that is the bad part?
I have the Woodriver inserts and the wobble but i also have the Woodriver Chuck.

Eric...

I have no reason to believe that a Wood River insert will create wobble with a Wood River chuck. I guess it's possible that any wobble you are experiencing withthe WR combo might be caused by the insert not mating up against the WR chuck inner face, but that's just a guess.

Here are a couple of photos. The shot of the inserts shows clearly why the Wood River insert won't work with a Nova. The WR (on the right) is about 3/8" shorter than the Teknatool meaning that the WR does not place a machined flat surface up against the machined flat surface on the inside of the SN2 chuck. Without such contact, the connection is only as good as that which is offered by the mating of the threads (a poor way to promote precision).

The second shot is of the nylon washer removed. Up close and personal, it is clearly deformed from having come between the insert and the spindle face. Again, the precision machining offered by the Nova insert up against the Nova spindle face is seriously compromised by the deformation of the washer and that spells trouble (or wobble).

...Bob

[Ron Lynch]

There is another source of chuck wobble and that is the insert not mating properly with the lathe spindle. I have an old PM 45 (1967) and my SN2 wobbled. When I first attached the chuck it didn't spin all the way on and give that satisfying clunk when it seated. After diddling with it for a while I pulled the spindle and took it to work. I chucked it in our toolroom lathe and faced the spindle shoulder (it had picked up a few nicks since '67). I was surprised to find that the insert still didn't seat properly. A little more detective work and I found that the insert was locking on the spindle threads before the shoulders mated and this generated the wobble. I chucked the insert into the lathe and removed one thread from the insert ID and bingo, that satisfying clunk was there and the wobble was gone. Now this is probably related to the age of my lathe and the fact that Nova probably didn't do a lot of testing with obsolete machinery. Oh yeah, while I had everything apart I drilled the insert to accept a pair of set screws to lock the insert to the spindle shaft.

[Eric Kosanovich]

Roger, Bob, Ron Thanks guys this helps my out a little more. I need to check some things but i'll get back.
i did chect the runout it was about .002 on the spindle shoulder i think that will be ok but i'm not sure. anyhow i'll have to look in to it some more.

Thanks Guys
Eric

[Mike Minto]

now i remember - the folks at Stubby recommend against the plastic spindle washers.