New teeth on old backsaw

[Jasper Homminga]

Hello all

A while ago I posted a thread because I was confused by my backsaw (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=12824): it had a 6ppi teething, which is appropriate for coarse work while a backsaw is appropriate for fine work. In any case, I followed Leif's advice to simply removed all the teeth and add new ones. I now have some pictures:

*original teeth.jpg: The first thing I did was take off the handle, which immediately solved my confusion, because in the brass back was the original teething. It seems it was ones a larger saw that was simply cut off, reversed and refilled (why???).
*sawvise.jpg: I made a saw vise based on a picture in "Classic Hand Tools" (by Garrett Hack). At first the saw would slide down during filing so I added a rubbery lining for extra grip, which solved the problem.
*new teeth.jpg: I made a piece of paper with 13 lines per inch (using MS Powerpoint). The first run I simply filed ones per line to get a notch for subsequent filing<o:p></o:p>.
*2nd round.jpg: subsequent filing rounds shaped the teeth.

Right now the saw is fully filed and set again. The handle has to be attached again, but I want to change it's shape a little to fit my hand better (no pictures yet, sorry).
All in all it was good fun and not nearly as difficult as I thought it would be. The guides from www.vintagesaws.com and www.norsewoodsmith.com and the "Classic Hand Tools" book were all the help I needed.

Thank you all for the advice and help,
Jasper

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Excellent Jasper. I've seen the saw blades turned around before, but the new teeth were always the same size as the old teeth. Maybe the teeth were damaged or the original owner thought he might want to return to the fine teeth some time later.

[Leif Hanson]

Rock and roll, Jasper! :D

Very nicely done!

"it was good fun and not nearly as difficult as I thought" - this is very true... I found the same to be true when I first did it.

I like that saw vise, BTW! I might have to add the reference to Garrett Hack's book to that article - can I use your photo of the one you made? Pretty please?

Again - great job!

Leif

[Bob Smalser]

Files are sufficiently expensive these days that when I need complete new teeth, I simply take the saw to Shelton Sawworks along with my sawmill blades.

I have them shear in new teeth on their machine, leaving me to file and set them. Because I do all my business there, they don't charge me anything for it as it only takes a couple seconds.

[Peter Gavin]

If you don't have access to a friendly sharpening service that will cut your teeth, do you have any suggestions?

[Tom LaRussa]

I have them shear in new teeth on their machine, leaving me to file and set them. Because I do all my business there, they don't charge me anything for it as it only takes a couple seconds.
Now that's what I call a bargain! :D

[Bob Smalser]

If you don't have access to a friendly sharpening service that will cut your teeth, do you have any suggestions?

Then you simply refile them from scratch, trying not to joint so far that you lose all the remnants of the old teeth to use them as guides.

You'll wear out most of a new file doing that on a large saw.

http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDocs/Wood_How_To/Smalser_on_SharpeningHandsaws.htm

[Jasper Homminga]

Hello all

Leif, I would be honoured! I'll make some better pictures for you and get you some measurements. I placed them in a new thread, pictures will come later.

Bob, that would have been cheaper and faster. On the other hand: I do woodworking because I like doing it and I like the idea of being able to make something myself. I am absolutely certain that the cost of my furniture has only increased since I started making it myself.

For the picture police: Yesterday evening I finished the handle and here are the last pictures of the saw.

Jasper

[Bob Smalser]

I am absolutely certain that the cost of my furniture has only increased since I started making it myself.


Ayup. Just had a similar discussion on the Woodenboat Forum that relates directly:


I'll just add one point that's been missed.

My only real objection to epoxy and plywood it that it is expensive.

Last I checked, my time between 5pm and 5am and on stormy days wasn't worth much money. In many areas, a modest investment in a small sawmill means folks seek you out to provide free trees...sometimes on shares....and more often merely to get rid of them.

Low cost wood means you can be lavish with it, and the major cost becomes hardware, cordage and sails, with a little cotton, glue and paint thrown in.

The hardware and some cordage prices you can ameliorate by setting up a commercial account with a local hardware jobber. Surplus paint...copper, epoxy, lead, poly and alkyd... at a fraction of the price of new abounds out here and I've never had a problem with it. These days Ebay has a surprising amount of inexpensive salvage bronze goodies and more than all the required tools if you are diligent and resourceful.

And I still can't think of anything that provides as much bang for your buck than traditional linseed and tar for some non-fancy applications.

Doing it the traditional way takes longer, but can still be done inexpensively...

...not to mention just how much more durn fun the entire process is.

Same with furniture. Half the hardware and gizmos being pushed at you are needless and often counter productive....expensive steel and ball bearing drawer slides being one of my favorite targets. When the cost of the hardware begins approaching the cost of the wood for a project, it's time to reevaluate, as there are traditional alternatives that are often much better.

Don't get me wrong...I do applaud you filing those teeth from scratch as it's great training. Just avoid trying it on some of the harder, modern saw steels like most disposable blades if you can avoid it...the cost in files can exceed the cost of the a replacement blade.

[Leif Hanson]

Jasper - thanks! :cool: When you get the photos, I'll take them and what you've written above and add it to the article. I thank you - I think it will be a great benefit to people looking to make one of their own, and I haven't seen a decent plan for one on the web other than the one on the Cornish Workshop (http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/wwsawvice.html)web site, which while great for most saws, isn't useable for backsaws as shown.

I have to counter Bob a bit, as I think he's been out in the western Washington rain a little too long :eek: :D . As far as cutting your own teeth on a saw - I will agree that some of the modern saws have specially hardened teeth that makes it impossible, but that's not what's happening here. These are back saws, with quite fine teeth. It is more of an issue with larger teeth on larger saws, though I have done a few of those as well.

You can argue it's just not worth your time to do it and the files used cost too much - and that may well be the case for you - but to each his own. I've personally cut brand new teeth on about 2 dozen back saws in just the last couple of months using the method described above... I've only gone through about 8 or 10 files total, four or five 4" and four or five 5" (though I do need to get a few more now). If I threw all my files away at the first sign they were dulling, I think it would get expensive, and quickly - but I'm a bit too scotch for that.

One of the things I do is start by using three separate files to make new teeth, starting with a very well worn file first to mark the location of the new teeth. I then use a sharper, yet still worn file to remove the largest amount of steel when forming the teeth. The new, sharp files are only used for the last few strokes. This helps to insure that I'm getting the most out of my files before tossing them into the scrap pile.

For time, it takes me about 1/2 an hour to go from no teeth to a fully sharpened 10" back saw. It would take as long to deliver then retrieve a saw to somebody who has a machine that cuts new teeth, and I don't expect they would do it for me for free. It is also good training, mentioned, too. I will be the first to say that it isn't for everyone, but for those interested, it's kind of neat to be able to do. :cool:

Leif

[Jerry Palmer]

Jasper,

Really great job on that. It can be tedious, but it is worthwhile and an additional skill that will come in handy.