Steel City Granite Jointers

[Rich Clark]

I've been looking into adding a jointer to my shop. Been getting by using planer and tablesaw sleds. I've got room for an 8" so that's what I'm leaning towards. My nearest woodworking supplier ( 90 miles away) has the steel city 40655 (HSS knives, granite top and fence). Steel City also has a helical head with carbide cutters (Model 40660). Not many threads on these jointers. Any input would appreciated.

another question: Do you need dust collection with these carbide heads.There supposed to be a lot quieter but if I still have to listen to the roar of my DC. I'm sure a set of HSS knives would last me a long time.

[george wilson]

I don't like the granite tables. I'm afraid they could easily break,and I am frequently horsing my table saw and jointer around to clear an extra long board. What can you hang on to if the tables are likely to crack or be pulled loose?

[michael case]

Granite Jointer tables. They must be growing a different kind of granite nowadays. Any granite Iv'e ever seen would be bound break in a jointer configuration.

[John Harden]

I, for one am sorry to see that Steel City has fallen into trouble. Personally, I think granite surfaces are an excellent idea.

We use gigantic granite surface tables (3' X 6') at work in the R&D labs all the time. Dead flat to a stupid tolerance and stable as can be.

My opinion is that the thinner stuff SC uses may chip on the edges where cast iron would be more resitant, but with some care, I think it would make a wonderful work surface for jointers, band saws, table saws, or anything that required a flat, stable, hard work surface.

That's my .02 and its probably worth what you paid for it. :cool:

Regards,

John

[Van Huskey]

I, for one am sorry to see that Steel City has fallen into trouble. Personally, I think granite surfaces are an excellent idea.

We use gigantic granite surface tables (3' X 6') at work in the R&D labs all the time. Dead flat to a stupid tolerance and stable as can be.

My opinion is that the thinner stuff SC uses may chip on the edges where cast iron would be more resitant, but with some care, I think it would make a wonderful work surface for jointers, band saws, table saws, or anything that required a flat, stable, hard work surface.

That's my .02 and its probably worth what you paid for it. :cool:

Regards,

John

I think it is a good theory but possibly poor execution, even though I have only seen a few posts about cracked Rigid TS tables but that was enough for me to be wary.

In the end I would be more concerned about the state of the company than the granite on the jointer.

[jim gossage]

I, for one am sorry to see that Steel City has fallen into trouble. Personally, I think granite surfaces are an excellent idea.
That's my .02 and its probably worth what you paid for it. :cool:

Regards,

John

John,
What type of trouble have they fallen into, if I may ask?

[Ramsey Ramco]

Well this has little to do with the sc jointer but I had a ridgid jointer with a cast top that i thought was good until I came to the shop one day and the cast table top was cracked in half. I still to this day ont know how it happened. It is no longer usable, I cant line up the tables enough to feed through.

[Mike McCann]

I have the band saw by steel city with the granite. I have had no problems with cracking or chipping. It is rock. not the hardest thing to chip unless you slam it with a hammer. hitting it with wood would never crack or chip it.

[george wilson]

I think a bandsaw table might be o.k.. I don't grab the table when I have to move my bandsaw. I do most certainly have to grab the tables of my table saw and jointer when I need to move it. That's when I think I might damage the relatively thin granite tables,or yank loose the anchor bolts holding them on.

Your granite flat in machine shop use is usually 4" thick,and not attached to a heavy machine in case you move it. I use a granite master flat in my own machine shop work.

[Tony Shea]

The other issue that is often overlooked with granite on a machine is the lose of the ability to use magnetic accessories on these machines. I have a granite TS and often run into an instance where a magnetic featherboard or other magnetic jigs would be useful but just can't use. Or some sort of magnetic base dial indicator or jig used for setting up your knives cannot be attatched to your table. Having experience with a granite table saw I would def not get a granite jointer. The tables breaking are IMO a non issue. Unless it is left out in the freezing cold and you come out and slam on it. If the table did break most likely it will be covered by the manufacturer.

[Myk Rian]

Rich;

Granite stays flat.
Granite can chip or crack. It can also stain.

With that said, SC makes excellent tools, and I have never heard or seen anything negative toward their jointer. If the deal is good, go for it.

[John Thompson]

I have a SC 8" with cast iron bed and a granite fence. Dead flat.. isn't going to warp with stress release as it was stress relieved for 5 million years before it was ground. Around 30,000 linear feet on it at this point and not cracks or chips for that matter.

I much prefer how flat is it and how flat it's going to stay over thin cast iron fences on a jointer as most fences are pretty thin. As for the table on a jointer I prefer the cast iron as it is much lighter. That's a lot of weigh hanging out on each end from where it is attached even though the granite has stainless steel rod inserts built under to re-enforce. I wouldn't hesitate to have it on a TS or BS top but not on the jointer for the reason I gave.

[Joseph Tarantino]

rich... the steel city jointer has a good reputation and while i am not a fan of granite top tools, i see no reason why, with care, it shouldn't provide long term serviceability. regarding helical heads, that's where i'd do some research. the 03/10 issue of wood magazine reviewed planers and found that helical heads didn't do much besides lighten the purchasers wallet. i think the same was true in the 06/09(?) wood test of jointers.

ramsey...was the ridgid jointer a gray or an orange unit? the cracked CI tops sounds like a warranty issue. if the unit is a gray model (pre-2003?), it carries a lifetime guaranty. if orange, and under 3 years old, possible warranty issue. if older than 3 years, and registered for the lifetime service agreement, it would probably be repaired at no charge. a quick call to ridgid CS would probably be appropriate either way.

[John Harden]

John,
What type of trouble have they fallen into, if I may ask?

I've read that they are having serious difficulty delivering product to their distributors.

I'm not sure what is causing it, but I hope that they remain afloat. The more options we have, the better.

I agree with the post that said this may be a case of bad execution of a stellar idea. Using granite is pure genious, but it has to be done well.

My local Home Depot had a Ridgid saw on their floor with little chips in the granite extensions wings. Not good.

Regards,

John

[Kevin Womer]

I've read that they are having serious difficulty delivering product to their distributors.


Regards,

John

Where did you read this? I am currious. I use their products and am not affiliated with them in any way. I have had no trouble with their products, but can't comment on their ability to get the product to the distributor.

[Myk Rian]

the 03/10 issue of wood magazine reviewed planers and found that helical heads didn't do much besides lighten the purchasers wallet. i think the same was true in the 06/09(?) wood test of jointers.
I don't give Wood mag reviews much thought anymore. They can be bought, and they charge $5 for a .pdf review of table saws.

Helical heads are great. The Byrd on my DW735 does a much better job than the stock cutters.

[Chris Kennedy]

There were some threads a few months ago about people having trouble getting Steel City items. I did quick look, but couldn't find them. Also, in the past year or (I think) their top three folks jumped ship to General, if I recall.

I have SC mortiser. Love that thing.

Cheers,

Chris

[Chuck Isaacson]

another question: Do you need dust collection with these carbide heads.There supposed to be a lot quieter but if I still have to listen to the roar of my DC. I'm sure a set of HSS knives would last me a long time.

As far as dust collection is concerned, you should have it on all of your tools. The cutter heads wont affect the DC at all. You would want the spiral head because of its superior cutting capabilities. You will generally get a beter cut with the spiral as compared to the straight knives. I personally would go for the spiral head. When they get dull, you just loosen up the screw holding it in there and turn it 90 degrees. They should last you a long time. I have the spiral head on my Grizzly 6" and love it. I have a Dewalt 735 planer right now and I can guarantee you that when I upgrade, it will have a spiral head on it.

[Van Huskey]

regarding helical heads, that's where i'd do some research. the 03/10 issue of wood magazine reviewed planers and found that helical heads didn't do much besides lighten the purchasers wallet. i think the same was true in the 06/09(?) wood test of jointers.

.

If you don't use figured wood or never experience tearout with knives then the finish will probably be no better with the helical. The big difference in that senario is cost savings, nope not talking about the knives being cheaper the helical heads are, over time. Each side of the helical insert will outlast a standard knife 8 or more times so by the time you need to replace the heads you have had to have the knives sharpened over 30 times, during that time the knives have probably been replaced 3 or 4 times. When you add it up over the long haul helical heads actually save money and can leave a better finish particularly with figured woods.

[Paul Ryan]

I have a SC 8" with cast iron bed and a granite fence. Dead flat.. isn't going to warp with stress release as it was stress relieved for 5 million years before it was ground. Around 30,000 linear feet on it at this point and not cracks or chips for that matter.

I much prefer how flat is it and how flat it's going to stay over thin cast iron fences on a jointer as most fences are pretty thin. As for the table on a jointer I prefer the cast iron as it is much lighter. That's a lot of weigh hanging out on each end from where it is attached even though the granite has stainless steel rod inserts built under to re-enforce. I wouldn't hesitate to have it on a TS or BS top but not on the jointer for the reason I gave.


I agree with Sarge,

A granite fence would be fine for me, but the beds I don't know if I would want that. I had a granite top table saw from SC it was a very nice saw. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one again. The bed on a long jointer would scare me. It is too long and there is less material to the bed of a jointer than a table top.

[Chris Parks]

Rich;

Granite stays flat.
Granite can chip or crack. It can also stain.


Cast iron rusts.:)

[Dave Lehnert]

Where did you read this? I am currious. I use their products and am not affiliated with them in any way. I have had no trouble with their products, but can't comment on their ability to get the product to the distributor.

My understanding is the people who started SC tools quit and are now working for General tools. General is trying to increase their market share in the US. Kinda left SC hanging.
I had a dealer who just a short time ago spoke highly of SC tools but they have seemed to lose interested in them and looks to be reducing there stock.
I have seen chip tops myself on the granite saws. Popular Woodworking has one in their shop. It was damaged in shipping and was no big deal as far as it being usable. Just a small chip.

[Rich Clark]

With the input I'm getting on the condition of the company I will look at some other choices. A 10 year warranty on the granite is great but if the company isn't around to back it up. Thanks for all the input.

[jim gossage]

I too was interested in the "dead flat" claim about steel city granite tops. I took a precision straight edge to a local dealer and put it across the table on a bandsaw. I was shocked to find it 0.018" off level. Someone mentioned that granite doen't move because it has been stress relieved for millions of years. I wonder if that is really true. Is it possible that a granite table top is like a piece of wood - once you remove them from the surrounds of the granite hill or tree, that is when the moving process starts. I suspect that granite does not swell and shrink with moisture changes, but what about temperature changes? Rock can certainly crack with time. Any geologist woodworkers out there?

[Rod Sheridan]

If a long warranty is a major concern, I believe that General now offer a lifetime warranty on their machinery for home shop use.

I think the issue with a granite jointer table for me would be the fact that jointers get horsed around by the tables. (I know, you should never do that, however I often did).

As John stated, as a fence, I think it would be terrific.

It is a muggs game to try to predict whether a given company will be in business for the next 5, 10, or 20 years. Even if they are, they may stop supporting older products (I've read many posts on SMC regarding difficulty obtaining Delta parts).

I would be tempted to pick a machinery vendor that makes the product, as opposed to one that is the importer, they may have more control over spare parts supply in the future.

Regards, Rod.

[John Thompson]

I too was interested in the "dead flat" claim about steel city granite tops. I took a precision straight edge to a local dealer and put it across the table on a bandsaw. I was shocked to find it 0.018" off level. Someone mentioned that granite doen't move because it has been stress relieved for millions of years. I wonder if that is really true. Is it possible that a granite table top is like a piece of wood - once you remove them from the surrounds of the granite hill or tree, that is when the moving process starts. I suspect that granite does not swell and shrink with moisture changes, but what about temperature changes? Rock can certainly crack with time. Any geologist woodworkers out there?

The granite tombstones at my local cemetery seem to be holding up just fine under heat.. cold.. rain.. snow or sleet... including the 200 year old ones. Appears that even the snot nosed punk vandals that occasionally over-turn markers for fun have even meet their match. :D

[george wilson]

Granite,like any other material,is only as flat as the makers ground it.

I use black granite master straight edges,and granite surface plates and squares(look like book ends). But,they were specially precision made and lab. checked for accuracy.

The ancient Egyptians used a black granite master measuring stick. Everyone was supposed to have their own wooden measuring stick compared to that master every year. Yes,if granite is MADE precision,it is very stable,but only if it was made that way.

By the way: The ultimate granite for the best surface plates is PINK granite. It has lots of quartz,and resists wear the best.