Help choosing plane for non-neander

[Van Huskey]

OK I need a general plane, I assume a block plan for doing all those little clean up jobs that the big old cold machines can't handle well.

First, I want to know what you guys think the best general plane would be. 60 1/2?

Second, want something that will give me a good idea what a quality plane can do, havng only used junk in the past and not having one around for years. Not sure I want to spend LN or Veritas money but WILL if thats what I need to get the right experience so I may/will want to do more. Is there anyone of them that out of the box will be OK for my non-dicerning taste? Still want more quality so I can learn to sharpen as well.

Third, given this is just a toe in the water test what do I need to do a decent job at sharpening? This will do double duty with my chisels as well.

TIA

[David Gendron]

What is your budget? If you want a good experience, I think you should spend a little $$. The idea of a block plane is a good one, so I'll stick with you on this, and recomend the LV apron plane, It was my first plane and love it! It is simple, well made and "cheep". Of course you can go the vintage route, but you will probably get frustrated with, finding one that is decent, tuning it up, so it work properly and if you don't realy know, frome your past experiences, what is "work properly" look like, you will end up more frustrated!
An other one I like is the LV LA block plane, it as a few more features, other than being bigger!
Good luck and let see what others have to say!

[Jim Koepke]

Van,

Your profile does not show your location. Is there a Woodcraft near you or have you looked at the Lie-Nielsen site to see if there is one of their Tool Events coming to a city near you?

Block planes are great tools, but having one that feels like a part of your hand is just as important as the quality of manufacture. It is a really good idea to get some hands on feel for the plane before buying. The best plane made will not reach its potential if it feels uncomfortable in the hand.

jim

[Van Huskey]

What is your budget? If you want a good experience, I think you should spend a little $$. The idea of a block plane is a good one, so I'll stick with you on this, and recomend the LV apron plane, It was my first plane and love it! It is simple, well made and "cheep". Of course you can go the vintage route, but you will probably get frustrated with, finding one that is decent, tuning it up, so it work properly and if you don't realy know, frome your past experiences, what is "work properly" look like, you will end up more frustrated!
An other one I like is the LV LA block plane, it as a few more features, other than being bigger!
Good luck and let see what others have to say!

As far as budget goes I don't really have one, I will pay what it takes but for a block plane (which seems I was going down the right road there) I figure to stay under $200. No, you are correct used is not what I want, I know they can be "sweet hearts" (pun intended) but I wouldn't know when I had it "right". Again I want something that will be decent out of the box, so I can get an idea of what they should be able to do even before I learn to tune it properly. Thanks

[Van Huskey]

Van,

Your profile does not show your location. Is there a Woodcraft near you or have you looked at the Lie-Nielsen site to see if there is one of their Tool Events coming to a city near you?

Block planes are great tools, but having one that feels like a part of your hand is just as important as the quality of manufacture. It is a really good idea to get some hands on feel for the plane before buying. The best plane made will not reach its potential if it feels uncomfortable in the hand.

jim

Very good points. I do have access to Woodcraft but only on business trips but it is often enough. I will need to try to get to a LN event, chances are I can line one up with travel no problem.

[Rick Erickson]

If you have a $200 budget I would strongly consider either Lie-Nielsen or Veritas (don't skimp). Jim is correct in that it's all about how it feels in your hand. Both of these companies provide superb tools and will easilly satisfy your request. My favorite by far is the LN 60 1/2 but others like the larger Veritas line.

[Jonathan McCullough]

How many times has any one of us needed an avuncular neighbor guy to show us something like different block planes, how to use them, how to sharpen the blades, the difference between a serviceable one and the one you keep in your shop apron? Seems to me like this question comes up often enough that we could have a community educational plane to send on loan to sawmillcreekers for a couple of weeks the cost of postage.

[Jim Koepke]

How many times has any one of us needed an avuncular neighbor guy to show us something like different block planes, how to use them, how to sharpen the blades, the difference between a serviceable one and the one you keep in your shop apron? Seems to me like this question comes up often enough that we could have a community educational plane to send on loan to sawmillcreekers for a couple of weeks the cost of postage.

I think this could be one way of doing it, but having a person to show how things are done is even better. That is why I am always curious as to know where a person is located. I am willing to travel a little to help another and am usually happy to have visitors come to my shop to help them learn. If they would like to bring a few ales or something to throw on the BBQ then we can extend the day.

You just have to understand that my shop is not a neat show case.

So, Van, if you live anywhere near southern Washington state, let me know and maybe we can get together to try out a few of my planes.

jim

[eric eaton]

I was almost in the same boat you were a year ago. Started out in woodworking with some pretty good construction skills but soon realized I knew far less than I thought I did.

As I started learning more and more I realized I needed a plane, so I got a new stanley adjustable mouth block plane and then started grabbing random #3's and #4's from ebay. I learned a valuable lesson and wasted countless hours tuning subpar planes because I just didn't know any better.

I have a few pieces of advice ... take it or leave it but most of this wisdom came from great people and SMC.

#1 - UNLESS you know exactly what to look for "good deals" in hand planes are a fallacy, usually there is a reason why planes go for $25 on Ebay and a similar plane could be $70 or $80 here on SMC. It is because the cheap planes are so badly tuned and will just make you cry by needing lapping and major adjustments :(. Did I mention lapping ... hours of lapping to get a crap plane beds flat is a nightmare.

#2 Sharpening - I recommend starting with the Scary Sharp method. Start with a granite block or sheet of glass, a Veritas MK II honing jig and some 3M wet dry 220 / 1000 / 2000 grit paper. You can do this for under a $100 and you can get great results while learning a ton. Google videos, read and do the research. Of course you can spend way more but this method is the least painful way to start and I have had amazing results.

#3 SPEND the money for a good (Lee Valley or Lie Nielsen) adjustable mouth block plane, you can do this for less than $200. The block plane is your friend. It will trim, smooth, knock off nubbins and dowels. It does everything and you want your most used plane to be great out of the box. Also if you hate it guess what ? The resale values on these planes is very good.

#4 A plan - I finally learned enough to have a "plan" for my planes. I have a very well tuned block plane, #5 1/2 and shoulder plane. I also have a decent #3 and #7 that I plan on replacing with quality tools in the future. I am still missing a smoother but in April I am getting the Lie Nielsen 4 1/2 for $375. In the future I am going to get a Lie Nielsen #8, and a woodie HAF smoother. In the meanwhile I am being patient and trying to avoid grabbing any more "frankenplanes". I also have found that "bedrock" and "type 13" Stanleys are very nice and have great potential :).

Just Like everyone else I am trying to make my dollars stretch to cover my basic tool needs. But in my first year of woodworking I have learned a valuable lesson when it comes to my tool budget, "Cry once .... smile forever".

Here is a classic example of time and money I wasted :(

Harbor Freight Wet/Dry Sharpening system ... $60 gone.

Generic Brand Honing Jig (Out of Square) ... $20 gone.

3 Frankenplanes from Ebay ... so bad I took the blades out and my son uses them - $100.

Anyways ... good luck and enjoy whatever you do decide, I love my "good" planes and plan on getting more. Using a well tuned plane is a true joy and brings you way closer to the wood than my electric tools.

Eric

[Brian Kent]

How many times has any one of us needed an avuncular neighbor guy to show us something like different block planes, how to use them, how to sharpen the blades, the difference between a serviceable one and the one you keep in your shop apron? Seems to me like this question comes up often enough that we could have a community educational plane to send on loan to sawmillcreekers for a couple of weeks the cost of postage.

Sometimes I just need somebody smarter than me who can tell me what "avuncular" means. How about a community educational dictionary! :D

[Sean Hughto]

Wow, Eric, I'm sorry you've had such bad expereinces with vintage planes. For the sake of the OP and anyone else that might be reading along, my expereinces have been night and day from yours. I've bought at least a dozen plane on eBay and have only been surprised by what I received once - the very first time, which was way back when most eBay listings didn't have any pictures. Even that one, was a good plane, I just didn't know someone had sprayed most of it with flat black spray paint. Here it is now:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3274/3029105774_333e2181f4.jpg

If anyone is looking, I would advise them to learn enough to spot those that are from before WW2. There are enough 3, 4, and 5's that you should stay away from those with any significant problems like lots of rust, pitting, and broken parts. The funny thing is that I have bought a few planes on eBay that I thought would be only for parts at very low prices and when I received them, found them really great users with only minor clean ups and sharpening. I've never seriously lapped a sole, and have never found the need. All the vintage Stanley's you see in this picture work well for their intended tasks.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3469/3354647916_7d5c6e017a.jpg

For what it's worth.

[Paul Murphy]

I agree with all the votes for a Lie-Nielsen or Veritas low-angle adjustable mouth block plane. While you're at it get a second blade and hone the bevel about 38 degrees, and with the 38 degree blade you can plane face-grain. The blade that comes with the plane will have a 25 degree bevel which is great for end-grain. If you try to plane face-grain with the 25 degree bevel you run a higher risk of tearout. The Veritas with the second blade is still within your budget.

The lowest entry cost sharpening is probably wet-dry sandpaper on glass with a side-clamp roller guide. The more frequently you sharpen the more some of the other systems will become cost effective.

Once you become familiar with your new block plane you will wonder how you ever lived without it.

[eric eaton]

Wow, Eric, I'm sorry you've had such bad expereinces with vintage planes. For the sake of the OP and anyone else that might be reading along, my expereinces have been night and day from yours. I've bought at least a dozen plane on eBay and have only been surprised by what I received once - the very first time, which was way back when most eBay listings didn't have any pictures. Even that one, was a good plane, I just didn't know someone had sprayed most of it with flat black spray paint. Here it is now:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3274/3029105774_333e2181f4.jpg

If anyone is looking, I would advise them to learn enough to spot those that are from before WW2. There are enough 3, 4, and 5's that you should stay away from those with any significant problems like lots of rust, pitting, and broken parts. The funny thing is that I have bought a few planes on eBay that I thought would be only for parts at very low prices and when I received them, found them really great users with only minor clean ups and sharpening. I've never seriously lapped a sole, and have never found the need. All the vintage Stanley's you see in this picture work well for their intended tasks.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3469/3354647916_7d5c6e017a.jpg

For what it's worth.

Beautiful collection Sean.

I did get some stinkers from Ebay but I also have some very nice older Stanleys that make me happy. Specifically I just got an old Stanley 5 1/2 from someone at SMC and it just feels so good I smile when I use it :)

I do want to add some Bedrock's to my collection, just trying to be patient and wait for that perfect #6 that calls out to me.

P.S. Just popping into to SMC while some glue sets, I finally got my shooting board set up for miters and with a sharp blade on my block plane I just made some perfect casing miters with Bobinga for a retirement gift. There is nothing so satisfying as "walking" up on miter fits with a good shooting board. I love my block plane.

:) :)

[Doug Shepard]

Best $165 you'll ever spend
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1216

[Tony Shea]

Being that you're a power tool guy you will be amazed at the uses that you'll find in a block plane. And another one you'd use a bunch is a shoulder plane to clean up those power tool tenons. I used to cut tenons on the table saw before I decided to go with hand tools and ended up sneaking up on the fit with my shoulder plane every time for a perfect fit. Otherwise I would always have a spot on the shoulder with a tiny gap that drove me nuts. But this plays into my perfectionist personality. Start with a block of your choice and expand from there. Good decision btw.

[Van Huskey]

Thanks all.

I have my bearings.

Scary sharp, got it have seen it before and looks perfect.

LN or Veritas

Two blades with the different bevels


Now for the exact plane which one for general work would you recommend.

LN 60 1/2 ?

Veritas DX60 ? Man that NX 60 is almost pretty enough to spend the money, but I would probably just build a display case and put a sign on it that says "In case of fire break glass... and get this plane the heck outta here!"

[Aled Dafis]

I have a LN 60 1/2 and find it fits my hands far better than the Veritas equivalent. The Veritas is quite a bit wider which makes it awkward for me to handle (and I have large hands). The LN is by far my most used plane, and if it was stolen, I wouldn't hesitate to replace it with another LN.

As others have said, both planes are very well made, so it's down to personal preference. My vote would be for the LN however.

Cheers

Aled

[Jim Koepke]

Some will yell blasphemy my way, but I am actually considering making the LN 60-1/2 my next plane purchase.

The only thing that would change my mind is if one of the LV DX/NX 60s were put into my hands for a test drive and I liked it.

Have to come up with the money first.

jim

[Van Huskey]

Well, guess it is down to the two, will have to get my hands on them and see which one fits. Thanks again all.

[John Stankus]

Sometimes I just need somebody smarter than me who can tell me what "avuncular" means. How about a community educational dictionary! :D

Not smarter, but I have a dictionary at my desk :)

avuncular -- of or like an uncle (the American Heritage Dictionary)

John