Filling in gaps?

[Brian Penning]

When and how do you folks fill in gaps like spaces between tenon shoulders and the cheeks of the mortise pieces?
Do it after the piece is finished with fillers like coloured wax sticks OR before the staining and finishing?
TIA

[glenn bradley]

Could you shoot us a pic of the junction you are referring to Brian. Tenons generally fit tight enough to have to be pushed together with a little oompf; no gaps desired. I think I'm not picturing it right.

[Michael MacDonald]

I think you are saying that you have some tenons that don't fit tightly... perhaps the shoulder cuts are not straight? Make a new piece is my advice. You could also cut the shoulder down further, and repair the shoulders by gluing similar stock onto the exposed tenon. But it will probably show.

[Brian Penning]

I meant gaps in general. Like gaps/spaces/voids in laminations is another example.
Wherever there isn't a good tight joint.
You try and fix it before or after?.

[Chris Padilla]

Thin pieces/wedges of the same wood...glued and lightly tapped in with a hammer. Sand it smooth...repeat if necessary. Try to avoid using putty or glue/sawdust as it just never look right to my eyes.

Always fix it before the finish...not sure why you'd fix it after as that would be more painful....

[Michael MacDonald]

I have heard epoxy is good at filling gaps... have never tried it. Not sure if it takes a finish. I have sometimes used wood filler, but not with a clear finish. I think you pretty much have to paint over that.

[Rob Holcomb]

I agree with Chris. The problem with glue/sawdust, epoxy or putty is that when the finish is applied, especially if a stain is used, it shows. Stain doesn't work on glue or epoxy and although wood putty will take a stain, it never ends up being the same shade as the wood and over time, it becomes even more noticable. If you use wedges of the same wood, it's hard to detect unless someone points out that they used a wedge.

[Brian Penning]

Actually I've been getting good results AFTER the finish is applied.
Reason being you see the final colour of the piece and you simply have to find a putty or wax stick to match that colour.
Haven't been able to find a filler or whatever that will take 1st the stain and then the finish.

[Richard Dragin]

If you are talking about straight square M/T then you need to work on your technique. If you are talking about the chairs we both make then it's a whole nother matter.

The generally accepted method is to fix after finishing so as to match the color. If it's a really big fix and needs wood then it's obviously pre-finish and a matching color of Titebond. I like 5 minute epoxy thinned with alcohol and a liberal amount of sawdust for pre-finish catastrophes that will be too big for a wax or putty.

Really small fixes are wax or putty and post finish to match the color.

The best thing is to have the patience to fully test whatever fix from sanding to finishing so you are not surprised at the final stage of the project. Most finishing problems are avoidable but from the posts we all see obviously many of us don't take the time to test.

[Paul Ryan]

The only time I usually use putty is to fill nail holes. And I try to avoid those most of the time. But there are times when things aren't exactly perfect. Usually if the gap is really small a little puddy (varathan) close to the same color as the stain will be. Then sand the puddy and area smooth stain the project and then finish over the putty. Putty doesn't work as well if you use non film forming finishes though. If you use film finishes it covers the putty and helps protect it as well. Years ago when I read the putty lables it said to use after finishing. It took me awhile to learn that staining over and finshing over works better. I fill knot holes and with glue and sawdust mix. It is time consuming because you must fill, let it settle, then fill again, but it works well. Some pieces I pick when they have a knot hole on the inside and it creats a nice figure on the other side.

When it come to tendons if they don't fit cleanly I cut new pieces. It sucks put that is the only way to make it look nice.

[Richard Dragin]

............................ I fill knot holes and with glue and sawdust mix. It is time consuming because you must fill, let it settle, then fill again, but it works well.

The glue shrinks, epoxy doesn't and would avoid the several step process.

[Kent A Bathurst]

First - Richard is correct for M+T. Gaps there is pilot error - you flew it into the hill :D.

Next - For other things that come up, Chris is right IMO (I've had to do this on things like inlaid butterfly keys or dovetails - not every one, but every so often). Using tiny wedges - or even plane shavings - gives you the same wood + close to the same grain - usually disappears. I use this method - maybe because my finish touch-up skills could certainly be better, but still..........

[James Carmichael]

Ditto on Chris' advice.

I learned this watching a Tage Frid dovetailing video. Make the shaving oversize so it protrudes from the joint, then trim flush with a chisel or plane.

Done properly, it will not be noticeable after sanding.

In a perfect world, our joints would fit perfectly. This little cheat has saved several projects for me. I figure if Tage Frid used it, it's OK for me:-)