Laser Hot Stamp Die Material

[Len Levi]

Searched the forum but couldn't find anything on Laser Hot Stamp Die Material. Its a product sold by laser bits that is silicone bonded to
aluminum plate for making dies for hot foil stamping.

I have an old Kingsley hot foil stamping machine and wanted to make
my own dies as opposed to ordering out magnesium dies.

Anyone familiar with this product?

[Dave Johnson29]

Anyone familiar with this product?

Not sure if it is the same product Len, but I think it was Rodney who made some comments on hot stamping dies a few weeks back. Maybe three or four weeks back.

Search back on some of Rodney's posting or ping him if you do not get any replies here.

[Martin Boekers]

I haven't used it as it is EXPEN$IVE.

Jackson Marking, I believe sells it also.

http://www.rubber-stamp.com/


Dave was right we discussed it a few months back, can't think offhand what the thread was. Maybe someone can help out.


Marty

[Len Levi]

Searched hot foil and could not find any threads that were with Rodney.

The rubber stamps site price is double that from laser bits. I ordered 1
piece from laser bits, will give it a try. But if anyone has any previous
input that would help me to not waste all of it trying to figure out settings.

[Jani Pedersen]

How co-incidental can things get at times ? I just happened to read a thread of Rodneys today which I printed out as it is so full of useful information. He mentions engraving on high temperature silicon foiling material for hot foil dies in it.

The thread I read is called 'tips and ideas for lasers' and the date of it was 07-15-2005, so obviously not the one mentioned which was written two or three weeks ago, but you might find it easier to go to Rodneys profile and look via the posts and threads he has written ?

[Len Levi]

Thanks for the leads.

Found this from Rodney Gold:

2) Engrave High temperature silicon foiling material for hot foiling dies

This is a high temp rubber bonded to an aluminium plate , engraved the same way you do stamps. The rubber can take a huge amount of heat , this is put on a machine that heats the die and passes a ribbon of heat sensitive foil under the die , the hot die "melts" the foil into the object where the letters stand out , used for printing metallics or colours onto various items like clothes hangers , pens , card and papers etc. Much like a stamp except you use foils for the ink. This is a VERY cheap way of printing large quantities of items. The Silicon is used for items that don't have dead flat surfaces as it does have some "squish". Its a form of hot stamping die. The downside is the price of the material (I think laserbits has it) and the fact that the dies are far shorter lived than magnesium , brass or steel dies (you can do metal dies using the etching method described later)

Will report back to the Creek when I give a try. :D

[Bill Cunningham]

Stick with mag dies, their cheaper, and last a way lot longer. You can keep your cost down a bit, by sticking a block of 7/8" mag mount material in your machine head, then when you order dies, order 11 point 'un mounted' plates. You can even put more than one job on the same plate (mag plates will even cut apart easy on a scrollsaw) to further lower your costs. Then, buy some heat mounting tape to stick the 11 pt dies to the heated mag block in in the HS machine head. Remember, if you screw up a silicone die, it cost 'you' money, and either you have to use fixed sizes, or have a good saw to cut the main blocks up..Just not worth the expense

[Len Levi]

Having nill experience in hot stamping I appreciate your suggestions.

I thought it was not the most economic to order all special dies.

Thinking maybe to machine some 1/8" aluminum to mount in the chase
then order the ganged mag die and cut it up and bond to the base
plates as needed. Don't know here to get the thermal bonding tape?

Meanwhile I did get the silicone laserable plate. So will test it out.

Thanks for the help.

[Rodne Gold]

The big advantage of using silicon is that it can be laser processed instantly and works where a mag die wont - ie rough surfaces and slightly irregular shapes.
it's also a lot cheaper , despite the higher material price , than if you have to send out a mag die to be made outhouse - well in our neck of the woods it is.
You need to use your rubber stamp settings/program to make em, most likely you will need to double the power you use with rubber stamps for the silicon stuff. You can make the base material cheaper than you can buy it by bonding silicon sheet to an ally backing. You must use shoulders for thin lines and small letters when making em.

[Andrea Weissenseel]

Rodney, is that a special type of silicon ? Because so far I only found white silicon sheets here - I think Germany is Laser Neandertal, when it gets to material and supplies :rolleyes:

Does this silicon engrave like the rubber for stamps, I just wondered if it would work with my laser, because on the laserbit site they recommend 50W +

Cheers, Andrea

[Rodne Gold]

Andrea , its high temp silicon , normally a brick red colour , you get it in various hardnesses.
I use a 25w laser to engrave it with no problems - it's slow , but works
There is another option too , you can use a 2 part mould making RTV (room temperature vulcanising) silicon poured onto a flat aluminium sheet , use a playdo/plasticine boundry to create a dam so the poured silicon forms a flat sheet - 3-5mm is fine. Engrave that. This stuff can be used to make low melting point metal objects and it handles heat well.
Easier to find than high temp silicon sheeting

[Andrea Weissenseel]

the aluminum is just there to transfer the heat into the silcon, so doesn't have to be too thick ? The sheets I found here are 2mm thick and take heat up to 230° C

To pour it myself is an option, thank you for the tip :)

[Gerd Spatz]

Yes Andrea! That's really true...
And sometimes (e.g. last month) it's impossible to order in the USA:

----------
Due to the ever-increasing complexity of U.S. Export regulations, McMaster-Carr has
decided to only accept orders from a few, long-established customers of ours overseas. We
cannot accept your order and regret any inconvenience this causes you.

Your order has been cancelled.
------------

I tried to order some honeycomb cores... can we build some dangerous things with aluminium?

[David Fairfield]

Hah, Germany may be the stone age on the supply side, but the absolute best commercial scale model laser cutting is done in Germany. Amazing work, lots of 3d effects, years ahead of the USA. But I'm sure they are using American made machines, that makes me feel a little better. :rolleyes:

Dave

[Bill Cunningham]

Usually 11 pt. unmounted mag dies have a minimum 5sq inch area for a base price ($20-$25) then a couple of dollars a sq inch for additional space. A business card size die will run about $25-$35.00+- (7 sq inches) so the more logos, etc. you can put on a single plate the cheaper each one becomes, then just cut them apart with anything from a hand copeing saw, to a scroll saw. Those same dies can be used for rubber stamp masters if you have a vulcanizer, or even mounted on a handle for high quality wax seals. The heat tape to mount the dies in a HS machine is available usually from the same people that make the dies. you only need a few inches for each job, so a roll will last a long time. I've been using the same roll for 15 years.. Hot stamping is really not the process for un-even or rough surfaces, Since buying a laser,my HS Machine is getting less and less use. I primarily use it now for putting gold foil logos on vinyl 3 ring binders etc..

[Steve Clarkson]

Anyone have any idea where you can get low melting point metals in the US?

[Darryl Hazen]

Steve,
Cerro has low melting metal called Cerrobend. It melts at 174 degrees. They're located in Bellefonte,PA

http://www.cerrometal.com/lowmelt.html

[Len Levi]

Did a test engraving with 30 watt laser 100 power 10 speed 1000ppi.
Appears as though this setting goes to a depth of 10/1000s per pass.
Leaves quite a bit of debris, so cleaned it in between passes.

Now machining the large 6"x6" pieces into approx 1x2" pieces to fit into
the die chase. Will then see how it performs in the HS machine.

[Steve Clarkson]

Steve,
Cerro has low melting metal called Cerrobend. It melts at 174 degrees. They're located in Bellefonte,PA

http://www.cerrometal.com/lowmelt.html

Thanks Darryl!

[Rudy Ress]

You can also try rotometals dot com. They have alloys that melt at 117 degrees and up. Used to use a low temp bismuth alloy to make temporary custom fixtures to hold items when I used to fabricate something for the lab.

[sal shepherd]

Len,
I use United Silicone. They even sent a sample pack of their product

[Chuck Stone]

There is another option too , you can use a 2 part mould making RTV (room temperature vulcanising) silicon poured onto a flat aluminium sheet , use a playdo/plasticine boundry to create a dam so the poured silicon forms a flat sheet - 3-5mm is fine. Engrave that.

If you go that route, you could also laser a 'negative' out of wood or
plastic and then pour the silicone onto that. The RTV silicone will laser, but
the ones I've tried don't take detail as well as woods or plastics do. But if
you go that route, make sure to seal any wood (shellac is good) and use
some sort of release. I've used 90/10 mix of mineral spirits and vaseline and
it works well. You can melt it, shake it up and put it in a small, disposable
spray bottle to apply .. or you can brush it on.

[Leigh Costello]

I use the stuff from Laserbits with good results. I do increase my power from settings for rubber stamp making. Run about 3X and I get a good image that lasts a long time. Good luck and have fun with your laser.

[Raphael Rousseau]

I use the stuff from Laserbits with good results. I do increase my power from settings for rubber stamp making. Run about 3X and I get a good image that lasts a long time. Good luck and have fun with your laser.

Hi Leigh,

What product of laserbits do you actually use?
Thanks!

[Steve Clarkson]

Any idea where you can get "a ribbon of heat sensitive foil"?

Could this process be used to mark books & leather journals? I get a TON of people asking me to personalize leather journals and it seems like the only reasonably priced option are those moleskin journals that we can't do.

[Dan Hintz]

Steve,

Papilio is a major vendor... Google "heat transfer foil" for more choices.

[Mike Null]

Steve

Ebay has scads of the stuff. It's cheap.

I will be testing hot stamping on the backs of name tags instead of labels. Will also test on the back of plaques.

Having metal dies made is not very expensive.

[Steve Clarkson]

Thanks guys.......but I didn't see any that worked without inkjet toner........

[Dan Hintz]

Steve,

Inkjet has nothing to do with foil transfer... it takes metal dies. Are you sure you were looking at the correct stuff?

[Mike Null]

Steve

I think you may be looking at the wrong stuff. There is no toner involved.

Hot stamp foil comes in rolls of very thin material (thinner than paper) with a glossy side and a mat side. The mat side carries the transferable medium.

These are also very inexpensive and come in a multitude of colors.

Here's a place which may be near you.

http://www.unitedsilicone.com/hot-stamp-foils.aspx

[Steve Clarkson]

Dan.....I went to Papilio like you suggested!!!!! LOL! The stuff that I saw they had bonded to injet toner.....print a design, attach and heat the foil and it only sticks to the toner.

Now I'll try Mike's suggestion........ :)~

[Dan Hintz]

D'oh! I forgot about the laser toner transfer method (though it's still not inkjet). That method actually works really well for paper certificates and such... nice and crisp.

[Mike Null]

Steve

I don't know if you have any of the old kingsley foil but even if it's 30 years old it's probably still good.

[Bill Cunningham]

Crown foil is probably the worst I have tried. There was no way I could get it to stick to a Rowmark name badge. I even sent samples to the Crown factory, and they could find nothing in their product line that would stick under any circumstances. That's about the only foil that wouldn't stick. I ended up shipping the entire cut up master rolls I bought, back to them for a refund. No point in a credit if even 'they' can't find something that sticks to ordinary name badge material. The badges I did make, I ended up doming them so the colour would not rub off..