Which smoother

[Kevin Barnett]

I'd like to give these hand planes a good try. Right now, I have a shoulder plane and a low angle block plane that I like quite a bit. I've got some old Stanleys, but none can do what I want - they're either jointers or damaged. Instead of going through the hassle of making my old stanley 4 work, I'm thinking about new.

What I need is a plane to remove ridges either left by my spiral head planer or from my drum sander instead of using a RO sander. Most of my wood is cherry, occasionally figured maple or cherry. Most of these panels are 1-4sqft. My understanding is this is the domain of smoothers. I'd like something that is easy for even me to master. My problem is there are many to choose from.

On the Veritas website, they have a
#4 smooth plane
#4.5 smooth plane
a low angle smooth plane
a bevel up smoother

On the Lie Neilsen site they have smaller planes which may well work too as well as several variations on the #4.

If you had to choose between these two manufacturers, which model would you recommend I look at?

[Brian Kent]

Between the 2 manufacturers - Lee Valley and Veritas - I would say you can't go wrong, since Lee Valley makes Veritas planes.

With figured maple, you need a higher angle blade.

On the #4 or #4-1/2 you can add a back bevel to the blade to make it steeper (probably on an extra blade so you can go back to 45°).

On the Bevel Up Smoother you can get a 2nd blade with a full bevel or microbevel at a higher angle.

their bevel up smoother is probably more useful then their low angle because if you get other bevel up planes, the blades are interchangeable.

Brian

[Rick Erickson]

I have their BU smoother and am impressed with it. I have it and leave it setup with the 50-degree blade. I only use it for the tricky stuff. My Lie-Nielsens do the majority of the work. If I had to stick with the Veritas line that would be the one to go with.

[Kevin Barnett]

Wow. You guys are fast.

Why can't one just get the higher angle blade/frog and use that for everything? Too hard to push? Or is there another reason?

BTW I changed "Lee Valley" to Lie Nielsen in the original post. Mental error.

[Matt Radtke]

Wow. You guys are fast.

Why can't one just get the higher angle blade/frog and use that for everything? Too hard to push? Or is there another reason?


You certainly can get a high angle frog for the LN planes and do all your smoothing with them. The trade off is that the higher the angle, the harder they are to push. I don't have any BU/LA bench planes, but I would assume the same applies here as well--the steeper the blade angle, the harder to push.

Since you know going you'll be working some tougher wood, I would eliminate the LV 4 and 4.5. LV doesn't make a higher pitch frog for those. Between a LN 4/4.5 with a different frog and a LV BU smoother? That's like debating religion and politics at the same time.

[David Gendron]

For the kind of work you want to do, I don't think you need the 4 1/2. I would consider a #4 with the HA frog or maybe a #3, unfortunatly, it's not available with a 50* frog! But a #3 is a great little plane for smaller pieces!

[Brian Kent]

Can't go wrong with Lie or Lee. Looks like you have a lot of leeway (lieway?)

You don't need a high angle frog. Just a micro bevel in the back of a bevel down or the front of a bevel up. You still need two blades if you want to use the same plane for straight and difficult grain.

Or - one of the above plus a Mujingfang High Angle Polish Plane for about $56 from Japan Woodworker.

Another question - do your hands fit into standard size "large" gloves?

If yes, then it's a toss-up. I need extra-large gloves and find that the Lee Valley totes fit my hands better.

Brian

For my usage, of your list, I would go with the Lee Valley / Veritas Bevel Up Smoother or a Lie Nielsen 4-1/2.

[Kevin Barnett]

Thanks all. Yes, I have what I would call large hands, but that's just a glove size. They're actually pretty average.

I've been doing some homework while you guys have responded. I noticed the BU smoothers don't have a lateral adjustment. That may be an issue as I can never seem to get a perfect square on my sharpenings.

[James Scheffler]

Wow. You guys are fast.

Why can't one just get the higher angle blade/frog and use that for everything? Too hard to push? Or is there another reason?

BTW I changed "Lee Valley" to Lie Nielsen in the original post. Mental error.

Some softer woods don't like the high angle. My 55-deg smoother leaves pine looking kind of fuzzy. 50 degrees is fine, though. Just another factor to consider if you use softwoods.

[Paul Murphy]

Thanks all. Yes, I have what I would call large hands, but that's just a glove size. They're actually pretty average.

I've been doing some homework while you guys have responded. I noticed the BU smoothers don't have a lateral adjustment. That may be an issue as I can never seem to get a perfect square on my sharpenings.

Kevin, I believe the BU smoother has a Norris style adjuster, with combined lateral and depth control. The backlash on the LV is minimal.

[michael osadchuk]

I'd like to give these hand planes a good try. Right now, I have a shoulder plane and a low angle block plane that I like quite a bit. I've got some old Stanleys, but none can do what I want - they're either jointers or damaged. Instead of going through the hassle of making my old stanley 4 work, I'm thinking about new.

What I need is a plane to remove ridges either left by my spiral head planer or from my drum sander instead of using a RO sander. Most of my wood is cherry, occasionally figured maple or cherry. Most of these panels are 1-4sqft. My understanding is this is the domain of smoothers. I'd like something that is easy for even me to master. My problem is there are many to choose from.

On the Veritas website, they have a
#4 smooth plane
#4.5 smooth plane
a low angle smooth plane
a bevel up smoother

On the Lie Neilsen site they have smaller planes which may well work too as well as several variations on the #4.

If you had to choose between these two manufacturers, which model would you recommend I look at?

Given your existing plane inventory and the fact that used bench plane sized bevel up planes are relatively scarce (and pricey) while good quality used bevel down bench sized planes are plentiful and relatively cheap, I would choose either of the LV bevel up bench planes that are in your selection although I'd don't doubt that the similar sized bevel up planes that Lie Nielsen carry would also be great.

The three differences between the two LV bevel up planes:

the low angle smoother has flat sides that are at right angles to the sole so it is easier to use on a shooting board

the low angle smoother is slightly narrower/lighter so it requires less force than the BV

the bevel up smoother uses the same width blade as LV's bevel jack plane and bv jointer (2.25") so if you go on to buy either or both the jack or jointer later on you could use blades with different cutting angles in the other planes without having to buy more blades or keeping sharpening different bevels on the same blade.

I have the low angle smoother and it is a great plane but for the specific uses you mention a quality used no. 4 bevel down plane, with the very well sharpened blade for the ridges or the same plane with some back bevel for the figured woods you mentioned would probably do fine. I'm not trying to talk you out of a new bevel bench sized plane if you want to experience something different (smiley)

good luck

michael

[Jim Koepke]

One thing to consider when using a plane to clean up after sanding is you will have to sharpen your blades more often.

Sanding almost always leaves a little bit of abrasive behind to nick a blade.

jim

[Tri Hoang]

One thing to consider when using a plane to clean up after sanding is you will have to sharpen your blades more often.

Sanding almost always leaves a little bit of abrasive behind to nick a blade.

jim

+1 what Jim said. I have a separate plane to touch up plywood edges and sanded surfaces. I never use my better smoothers on those. Smoothes are ones that take me the most time to sharpen just right and I hate to have a nick in one of those blades. For other planes, not so much.

[Chris Hudson42]

Kevin,

I had exactly the same requirement. A 'smoother' for cherry after first levelling with a Bosch 3365 single-blade power planer (better than the more expensive 1594K IMHO - and I do have both, unfortunately).

I bought the Lee Valley 4 1/2 (they call it a 164 1/2H) Bevel Up Smoother 05P36.01 w/38 degree blade (50 degree effective angle) @ $215.

I am extremely happy with it. It is a true pleasure to use, and one of my two best planes - the other being another LV - the BU Block/#3. (05P22.01)

It easily and quickly removes the Bosch chatter/mill marks, and I am ready to put on the finish.

BTW - for the tougher curley Maple, LV has an optional 50-degree blade for an effective 62-degree BA. (you could also put a 50-degree micro bevel on the stock blade for an effective 62.).

And since your panels are relatively small, you might alternately look at the LV 05P22.01 Low Angle Block Plane, converted to a #3 smoother with the 05P22.07 38-degree iron, and optional tote and knob.

This will be less work to use, and maybe even quicker as the Bosch leaves a pretty good surface to start with.

One comment, don't bother sanding after planing with the Bosch. You will only make things worse. Plus dull your smoother iron with the fallen off embedded abrasive grit.

There is an old rule "Never use a cutting tool after sanding' - and this is the reason why.

Finally, if you do buy a BU plane, be sure to read Brent Beach's comments on sharpening them:

http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/bevel%20up.html

[Floyd Mah]

If your surfaces are essentially flat, why not use a scraping plane. I have a LN 112 (http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=112), also known as the large scraping plane. I find that working an essentially flat surface with a bench plane of any type risks making gouges which require more work to repair. I recently flattened my workbench and found using the 112 a real pleasure to finish the work. What's even better is that it is $100 less in cost than a #4. Plus you get a real collector's joy of owning a slightly exotic plane instead of another #4. (Actually that's the best reason to get one).

[David Keller NC]

Kevin - While I'm a dedicated handplane user (I have over 300 if you include wooden molding planes), I'm going to suggest something in your situation that will be simpler, quicker, a whole lot cheaper, and perhaps "good enough" for your purposes - a card scraper.

Because you're just lookign to remove ridges left behind by your planer or sander, you're not really removing much if any wood. This is in contrast to what most of us use a smoother for, which is to follow a jointing plane to flatten out a slightly scalloped surface. This work usually takes a minimum of two complete passes over the entire surface with a smoothing plane.

In your case, you may find that a card scraper gets you a flat surface ready for final sanding or a finish with very little effort because it's already flat after the planer or sander.

To set up with a card scraper, you need a card scraper (of course - about $10 for a set of 3 at your local Woodcraft), a very fine file or fairly coarse oilstone (this is for polishing the edges so you can raise a burr), and a burnisher. This last item can be a dedicated tool from someone like Lee Valley, or the shaft of a stray wood chisel in your shop. Assuming you've a proper smooth file or washita oilstone laying around your shop, the total investment will be $10 - $30 (the last figure is if you decide to buy a dedicated burnishing tool).