Odd Panely Glue-up

[Dave Novak]

I'm gluing together alternating pieces of 1-3/4" thick walnut and red oak into an interesting pattern for a bar top. Roughly 40 pieces of wood. My typical method is to use biscuits for alignment and just glue/clamp. Takes me forever as I have the best success with two boards at a time, then two double boards, etc.

Has anyone ever tried and had success using pocket hole joinery instead of clamps? If successful, I'd guess it goes a lot quicker and is likely to be stronger in the long run. I'm not too concerned about the pocket hole screws showing because the bar top will lay on a sheet of plywood for support.

Initial problems I foresee is that Kreg doesn't make screws longer than 1-1/2" in fine thread. I tested their #8 2-1/2" blue coat screws (course thread) in some scrap, which appeared to work very well, except for the fact that I busted the screw trying to pull the heavy chunks of wood together. I could try the #10 stainless steel course screws which might hold up better, or 1-1/2" fine thread screws, but I've learned not to do anything until I bounce it off my buddy's here, as someone will always have a better idea. Thanks!

PS - I'm at work, when I get home I'll post a pic of the boards laid out in pattern so you can see what I'm trying to do. I also have a question regarding the best method to assemble this where the glue line is end grain to end grain.

[Matt Day]

Pocket holes sounds like a good idea in this application, though I've never tried it. How thick will the bar be? The individual boards are 1 3/4" thick, but how tall?

How about a screw like this from McFeely's?
http://www.mcfeelys.com/product/1025-PM5/10-x-2-58quot-PocketMax-Pocket-Hole-Screws--Stainless-Steel

[Dave Novak]

The boards are 1-3/4" tall (height/thickness). I never thought of using screws other than Kreg, thanks for the link. I suspect a fine tooth screw would work better. I'd raher strip one out than break it.

[Glenn Vaughn]

I had the same question. I have a bunch of 8/4 Coffetree to glue up and want to use pocket screws for it. I can tell you that even on 4/4 Coffetree the coarse thread does not work well. I contacted Kreg and their suggestion is to use the 1 1/2" fine thread screws (they claim it will work well).

[Dave Novak]

Here's a picture that hopefully better explains what I'm doing. Each of the two sections is 1/2 the bar top. They'll join in the middle at the open ends forming a square hole that I'll fill with oak. The final length is about 134" and it will be roughly 30" wide. Each of the two half's will be glued up in two pieces, I'll use a plunge cut saw two rip them each 15" wide, then glue them together down the middle which unfortunately will be end grain to end grain, which is why I'm considering adding pocket hole screws to help hold it together over the long term. If you think my plan is flawed, please let me know. Might be a good excuse to buy a domino, but I just bought the TS 75/MFT3 combo so I'm a little short on funds. Thanks in advance!

[Dave Novak]

I had the same question. I have a bunch of 8/4 Coffetree to glue up and want to use pocket screws for it. I can tell you that even on 4/4 Coffetree the coarse thread does not work well. I contacted Kreg and their suggestion is to use the 1 1/2" fine thread screws (they claim it will work well).

Kreg told me the same thing, the screws won't be centered in the thickness though, and there'll be about 1" of screw into the other piece. I'm not entirely confident that when I flip the board over the edges will be perfect, but I'll test it out and see what happens. Unfortunately can't be tonight. Darn job gets in the way of everything.

[Maurice Ungaro]

Dave,
Another suggestion here: You might want to try using a spline to join the two halves of each end of the top together. It would be a good continuous bond. In that regard, you could also spline the two ends together to the square in the center.

I'm thinking that the pocket screws would not offer a consistent joint, as the boards are to be flat, and not 90 degrees to each other.

[Chuck Werts]

I don't know that I would trust gluing end grain. Can you laminate a piece of plywood to the bottom in such a way that it can’t be seen? Maybe just a piece down the middle that can be recessed into the bar so that it can’t be seen from the outside.

[Peter Pedisich]

Dave,

If you do use pocket screws, make sure you use a hardened steel screw, as the Stainless will be too soft and may strip out and be difficult or impossible to remove.

Pete

[David DeCristoforo]

http://www.cdmcabinethardware.com/acatalog/Online_Catalog_Countertop_Fasteners_416.html

[Dave Novak]

I don't know that I would trust gluing end grain. Can you laminate a piece of plywood to the bottom in such a way that it can’t be seen? Maybe just a piece down the middle that can be recessed into the bar so that it can’t be seen from the outside.

I can certainly laminate a piece of plywood to the bottom, heck, it's going to sit on plywood anyway and be screwed into the plywood from the bottom into the bar top. Would I have to be concerned about wood movement?

[Dave Novak]

Dave,

If you do use pocket screws, make sure you use a hardened steel screw, as the Stainless will be too soft and may strip out and be difficult or impossible to remove.

Pete

Wow, just showing my rookie status, but I thought stainless was as hard as it got when it came to screws

[Dave Novak]

Dave,
Another suggestion here: You might want to try using a spline to join the two halves of each end of the top together. It would be a good continuous bond. In that regard, you could also spline the two ends together to the square in the center.

I'm thinking that the pocket screws would not offer a consistent joint, as the boards are to be flat, and not 90 degrees to each other.

Spline sounds like a good idea for the end grain joints. I could put a 1/2" dado blade in the saw and join them that way. Anything I need to know considering I've never done that before?

[Neal Clayton]

Here's a picture that hopefully better explains what I'm doing. Each of the two sections is 1/2 the bar top. They'll join in the middle at the open ends forming a square hole that I'll fill with oak. The final length is about 134" and it will be roughly 30" wide. Each of the two half's will be glued up in two pieces, I'll use a plunge cut saw two rip them each 15" wide, then glue them together down the middle which unfortunately will be end grain to end grain, which is why I'm considering adding pocket hole screws to help hold it together over the long term. If you think my plan is flawed, please let me know. Might be a good excuse to buy a domino, but I just bought the TS 75/MFT3 combo so I'm a little short on funds. Thanks in advance!

oversize them a bit, use a tongue/groove bit on a router table or a dado and tongue/groove 3 sides, assemble like a hardwood floor.

that's how you do floors with such patterns.

also replaces your need for biscuits.

[Chuck Werts]

Yes, wood movement probably would be an issue. I should have thought about that. As long as it is sitting on plywood and not suspended I think you will be fine with any of the options on this thread. I like the hardware David DeCristoforo posted. You can bring it to the room in pieces and put it together just like a kitchen counter. Your bar top is way cooler than mine. I just have a piece of oak plywood. I might have to redo mine now.

[Kent A Bathurst]

........ I like the hardware David DeCristoforo posted......

Bingo. I used that style to connect 2 sections of 2" x 24" x 7' HM laminated for the top of my back bench

[Richard Dragin]

Daves link is a better idea.