new large lathe input

[Karl Card]

I have a jet 1014I and I like it for pens and small works but I am wanting to add a larger lathe for, well larger things. I saw a Shop Fox W1758 for 569 shipped on ebay. Reviews were ok for what I could find. I am wondering if anyone has experience with a 500 ish lathe that is good quality. Grizzly has one that has nice features but I do know how the quality is. If I can afford it id like to have at least a 14 inch swing and 1.5 to 2 hp motor which the shop fox has.
Any info please...

[Jake Helmboldt]

Karl, Shop Fox is Grizzly's retail line (usually sold at retail dealers) and many of their machines are identical or nearly so. I have a band saw and jointer from them and they have been good. But, in regards to the lathe...

As for whether to spend the money; don't. Lathes in the $500 range are not worth the investment for they fall into something of a no-man's land. The 16" swing on that Shop Fox is pointless since the low speed (600 RPM) is too high to take advantage of the swing. It is really too high for even a 12" lathe and is a reflection of why Grizzly has largely had a bad reputation for their lathes being poorly configured.

Jake

[Eric Kosanovich]

On Google it has it at Tools & More
$526.67 new

[Bernie Weishapl]

I have seen a Shop Fox and I surely wouldn't buy one. The low speed of 600 rpm with a unbalanced bowl blank would scare me to death. The guy that has one only does spindle turning and that is fine. Like I said unbalance bowl blanks, Hollow Form blanks, etc would not be good. The only lathe in the $500 to $600 range would be the Delta 46-460. Next step would be a Nova 1624.

[Karl Card]

thanks folks, that is what I needed to know...
Ill have to do some digging and see what I might find used..

[Jake Helmboldt]

I have seen a Shop Fox and I surely wouldn't buy one. The low speed of 600 rpm with a unbalanced bowl blank would scare me to death. The guy that has one only does spindle turning and that is fine. Like I said unbalance bowl blanks, Hollow Form blanks, etc would not be good. The only lathe in the $500 to $600 range would be the Delta 46-460. Next step would be a Nova 1624.

Good point on price Bernie. I didn't even think about the new Delta since I was thinking of full size lathes.

Karl, a used Nova 16-24 would potentially be in your price range, provided you can find one. If I were in your shoes that is what I would be looking for. But they aren't exactly on every corner. I was thinking about getting one and adding variable speed to it, but I have yet to run across one for sale (that isn't hundreds of miles away). On sale they go for about $800 so maybe save a little more and watch for a sale somewhere.

[Roger Chandler]

I purchased the new G0698 Grizzly 18x47 on Jan. 1,2010. I have used it and put it through its paces, and I can tell you it really performs. It has great features that match up with most higher end lathes. It has 2 hp motor, reversing, variable speed control, 1-1/4" spindle, quill travel of 4-3/8 inches, has 18" swing and 47 inches between centers, and weighs around 500 lbs.

The introductory price is $1295.00 and will probably go up when the new catalog comes out. The way the inverter is programmed, the machine has a little hunt below 100 rpm, but it is not an issue, as that is a snails pace for any turning. the speeds are 0-1200 rpm on the low belt setting, and 0-3200 on the high belt setting. This is a GOOD lathe in my opinion, and has more swing and distance between centers than the Jet 1642 evs, which is highly lauded on this forum.

I have turned on a PM 3520b and other lathes as well, and from what I have experienced, this new G0698 has very similar performance and features as the 3520b.

I am not a salesman for Grizzly, but this lathe is a cut above what they have carried in the past, and they have good customer service. This model takes a second look, and should not be dismissed out of hand, because the performance and features are definitely there with this lathe. [imho] :)

[Eric Kosanovich]

So from what i can see you guys dont like the speed.
Well that could be an easy fix with a VFD would it not?
the price of this lathe is $500-$600 and if you add the VFD
would still only be $700 to $800 with all the power
and swing that the $1200 to $2000 lathes.
Would seem to me this is one of the best buy on the market today.

Thanks Karl

[Roger Chandler]

So from what i can see you guys dont like the speed.
Well that could be an easy fix with a VFD would it not?
the price of this lathe is $500-$600 and if you add the VFD
would still only be $700 to $800 with all the power
and swing that the $1200 to $2000 lathes.
Would seem to me this is one of the best buy on the market today.

Thanks Karl

Karl,

The experienced turners on this forum have a really good idea of what is on the market, and many have seen this lathe up close and personal. What they are trying to do is to help you to understand that when you compare lathes, and their track records, then you can really get a good sense of what the experience has been with different models.

The shop fox w1758 is not near as heavy a machine as you most likely would want, and it has what is some call "an articulating tool rest" which is another way of using an extension arm to make the tool rest not near as solid as the ones you see on a Jet, Powermatic, etc. This extension arm has been known to malfunction, vibrate and in a few cases break on some machines. Some owners have posted about this in the past on forums.

When a lot of turners have already gone through what you are doing [trying to find the best lathe they can for the money they can spend] then they have discovered what you likely will also in your inquiries and gaining from other's experiences.

I looked seriously at the shop fox, and then after noticing the features and heavy machining on other lathes, then ruled out the shop fox. A lot of this will depend on what you believe you will be turning. If you are going to do smaller projects only, [pens, goblets, spindles, candlesticks,etc] then you don't need the heavy cast iron of a machine weighing 500 -800 lbs.

Budget concerns always enter the equation also. If this lathe is in your budget, but a Jet costs too much, then you have to factor that in, and you might be fine with the shop fox. I don't think that the shop fox is a "bad" lathe, but it is lighter weight, has limits on the slow speed [600 rpm is pretty fast for a slow setting especially for sanding, and turning out of balance bowl blanks, etc.] You will be limited to some degree by this issue, but for you it may not be anymore than a minor annoyance.

If price is a big concern, and you believe that you only want to do small to medium sized turnings, then the new Delta Midi that many have gotten and have posted about seems to be well thought of, and would be in the same price range as the shop fox, and has variable speed. Hope this helps. :)

[Eric Kosanovich]

Karl,

The experienced turners on this forum have a really good idea of what is on the market, and many have seen this lathe up close and personal. What they are trying to do is to help you to understand that when you compare lathes, and their track records, then you can really get a good sense of what the experience has been with different models.

The shop fox w1758 is not near as heavy a machine as you most likely would want, and it has what is some call "an articulating tool rest" which is another way of using an extension arm to make the tool rest not near as solid as the ones you see on a Jet, Powermatic, etc. This extension arm has been known to malfunction, vibrate and in a few cases break on some machines. Some owners have posted about this in the past on forums.

When a lot of turners have already gone through what you are doing [trying to find the best lathe they can for the money they can spend] then they have discovered what you likely will also in your inquiries and gaining from other's experiences.

I looked seriously at the shop fox, and then after noticing the features and heavy machining on other lathes, then ruled out the shop fox. A lot of this will depend on what you believe you will be turning. If you are going to do smaller projects only, [pens, goblets, spindles, candlesticks,etc] then you don't need the heavy cast iron of a machine weighing 500 -800 lbs.

Budget concerns always enter the equation also. If this lathe is in your budget, but a Jet costs too much, then you have to factor that in, and you might be fine with the shop fox. I don't think that the shop fox is a "bad" lathe, but it is lighter weight, has limits on the slow speed [600 rpm is pretty fast for a slow setting especially for sanding, and turning out of balance bowl blanks, etc.] You will be limited to some degree by this issue, but for you it may not be anymore than a minor annoyance.

If price is a big concern, and you believe that you only want to do small to medium sized turnings, then the new Delta Midi that many have gotten and have posted about seems to be well thought of, and would be in the same price range as the shop fox, and has variable speed. Hope this helps. :)


Roger,

I don't believe the Delta is in the same class as the Shop Fox.
Delta only has a 1 hp motor and a 12” swing.

Karl is looking for 14” swing and a 1-1/2 to a 2hp motor.
I think you may need to jump up on lathe size a little bit.

As for the articulating arm I do not believe you “have to” use it....

I do believe I addressed the speed control by using the VFD for an extra 100 to 200 bucks.
The Nova 1624-44 Lathe same class lathe has the VFD and is $600 more.

Not sure I see the “heavy machining” on a desktop lathe like the delta midi.

I would more over be willing to spend my money on upgrades then the lathe it's self.

14” swing 2 hp motor $500.00 I'm sold

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Hey guys....let's tone this down a little.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion.

Having an opinion doesn't make anyone right or wrong...just opinionated. Okay?

[Dick Sowa]

One thing that Grizzly (Shop Fox), Sears and a lot of other sellers do, is over advertise the HP of their motors.

In the case of the Shop Fox (same lathe as Grizzly G0462), the manual claims it draws 14 amps at 110V...that equates to a little over 1 HP...not the 2 HP they advertise. A true 2 HP motor, at 110V would draw around 19-24 amps.

[Jake Helmboldt]

Roger,

I don't believe the Delta is in the same class as the Shop Fox.
Delta only has a 1 hp motor and a 12” swing.

Karl is looking for 14” swing and a 1-1/2 to a 2hp motor.
I think you may need to jump up on lathe size a little bit.

As for the articulating arm I do not believe you “have to” use it....

I do believe I addressed the speed control by using the VFD for an extra 100 to 200 bucks.
The Nova 1624-44 Lathe same class lathe has the VFD and is $600 more.

Not sure I see the “heavy machining” on a desktop lathe like the delta midi.

I would more over be willing to spend my money on upgrades then the lathe it's self.

14” swing 2 hp motor $500.00 I'm sold

Eric, the Nova 1624 does not have a VFD (though it is almost $600 more). The Nova however is not the same class of lathe; it is regarded as one of the best non EVS lathes and fit/finish is very good. Also, the low speed (via belt change) is much lower than the Shop Fox. It is also configured to allow outboard turning via an outrigger which the SF doesn't have. It is tried and true, though a bit pricey for what you get. The DVR is true EVS, but even more money and a different kettle of fish altogether.

As for retrofitting the SF with a VFD, you also need to swap the motor and other bits, so you would need to add about $500-600 for the retrofit, and of course the time to do so. By that time you are in the price range of the new Grizzly with EVS, so it wouldn't seem to be money well spent (in my opinion). Plus the SF just doesn't have the mass (including robust head/tailstock) for turning large blanks at its max "capacity". Something about a silk purse and a sow's ear.

[Eric Kosanovich]

I am not going to reply.
I only wish to thank Karl for posting.

[Dick Strauss]

Eric,
Jake is correct about the VFD retrofit. You will need to buy a new three phase motor before the addition of a VFD will do anything! IMHO the Shopfox is not worth retrofitting.

You are correct that using the articulating tool rest is optional. You can take out the extension arm and use it in the normal fashion as I do with my Delta 1440 lathe.

Karl,
As Dick Sowa pointed out, the Shopfox might not fit your minimum HP requirements. My Delta 1440 lathe is rated for 3/4 hp but draws about 10A IIRC.

[Roger Chandler]

Roger,

I don't believe the Delta is in the same class as the Shop Fox.
Delta only has a 1 hp motor and a 12” swing.

Karl is looking for 14” swing and a 1-1/2 to a 2hp motor.
I think you may need to jump up on lathe size a little bit.

Eric,

I realize the Delta midi is not in the same class, I was referencing the price range. For the price, the Delta midi has gotten rave reviews from turners on this forum, and that was my only point.

Most of us who have upgraded have gone through this process ourselves, and we all seem to want to get the most lathe we can for our money, but sometimes the realities of budget issues prohibit us from getting what we truly would like to have, so my reference was that if small to medium turnings was all the poster envisioned he would be turning, then the Delta midi is a featured lathe in the price range he was looking at with the shop fox, and would handle those small to medium projects.

Nothing else was intended by me, and maybe I could have stated things a little better.

[Eric Kosanovich]

Roger, i'd like to ask why you cant use a VFD on single-phase? we use them on Air Condition motors all the time. i believe i have one on the truck now.

Edit:
Sorry not Roger that was to Dick

[Brian Novotny]

One thing that Grizzly (Shop Fox), Sears and a lot of other sellers do, is over advertise the HP of their motors.

In the case of the Shop Fox (same lathe as Grizzly G0462), the manual claims it draws 14 amps at 110V...that equates to a little over 1 HP...not the 2 HP they advertise. A true 2 HP motor, at 110V would draw around 19-24 amps.


I agree with you fully, so to add to that I don't think in 2010 you can rate the power of any tool by HP......There are alot of 7 amp lathes out there that are 1 hp. People need to look at the amps instead of the HP

[Robert Snowden]

Bite the bullet and get yourself a nova dvr/xp

[Eric Kosanovich]

Rating or a Rated and horsepower is a unit of measurement.<< this is at a given load.


The rated amps on a motor would have to change with different loads IE. When you change the size and or speed of a motor.


A 2 horsepower motor is rated at two and will do that amount horsepower of work at full load.



In the case of the manual claims it draws 14 amps at 110V...that equates to a little over 1 HP...not the 2 HP they advertise. This is running load not full load.<<yes this is true and will do this under it's rated load


A true 2 HP motor, at 110V would draw around 19-24 amps. <<yes this is true and will do this under a full load.


Also a factor is the Lathes wiring this is a rating too and not the same as the motor. So when reading the manual please don't give the motor the same rating.


Induction motors almost never run at there ratings as the load is ever changing. Like when you put your tool to the wood. Lathes use this type of motor.


You cant look at amps as a rating of the work or the potential work. Amps are more over a byproduct of the work and ever changing as the work changes.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Eric,

Amps on the other hand are a poor measure of horsepower as a motor can be extremely inefficient due to design and build....consume more amps and produce less horsepower.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I'm really close to closing this thread for further posting.

The postings have drifted way off topic of the OPs subject.

[David Woodruff]

Karl,

The experienced turners on this forum have a really good idea of what is on the market, and many have seen this lathe up close and personal. What they are trying to do is to help you to understand that when you compare lathes, and their track records, then you can really get a good sense of what the experience has been with different models.

The shop fox w1758 is not near as heavy a machine as you most likely would want, and it has what is some call "an articulating tool rest" which is another way of using an extension arm to make the tool rest not near as solid as the ones you see on a Jet, Powermatic, etc. This extension arm has been known to malfunction, vibrate and in a few cases break on some machines. Some owners have posted about this in the past on forums.

When a lot of turners have already gone through what you are doing [trying to find the best lathe they can for the money they can spend] then they have discovered what you likely will also in your inquiries and gaining from other's experiences.

I looked seriously at the shop fox, and then after noticing the features and heavy machining on other lathes, then ruled out the shop fox. A lot of this will depend on what you believe you will be turning. If you are going to do smaller projects only, [pens, goblets, spindles, candlesticks,etc] then you don't need the heavy cast iron of a machine weighing 500 -800 lbs.

Budget concerns always enter the equation also. If this lathe is in your budget, but a Jet costs too much, then you have to factor that in, and you might be fine with the shop fox. I don't think that the shop fox is a "bad" lathe, but it is lighter weight, has limits on the slow speed [600 rpm is pretty fast for a slow setting especially for sanding, and turning out of balance bowl blanks, etc.] You will be limited to some degree by this issue, but for you it may not be anymore than a minor annoyance.

If price is a big concern, and you believe that you only want to do small to medium sized turnings, then the new Delta Midi that many have gotten and have posted about seems to be well thought of, and would be in the same price range as the shop fox, and has variable speed. Hope this helps. :)
Forget the $500.00 Grizzly, been there, done that, horrible piece of junk.I should really say what I think. David Woodruff

[David Woodruff]

The old saw, "you get what you pay for" is painfully true when buying a lathe. The $500.00 Grizzly will cause you to quit turning, causing you to think the mistakes are yours, when most of the fault is with a lathe that has a sudden start at 600 rpm, vibrates like it is walking out the door, noisy, poor rigidity. First, do not consider a lathe without VFD, Second, Spend at least $1500. if you can. Third, look at weight, more is better. Fourth, even if turning pens all the above is true. The $1400. Grizzly might be worth a look if trying ti minimize costs.

David Woodruff

[Chris Stolicky]

I have, and started with the 1014i. I went from that lathe to the 1642 2hp.

The only 'upgrade' I would consider in the ballpark you are looking at (albiet it more) would be the variable speed Delta. Beyond that, you are really looking at something between $1k-$2k for a true upgrade, with the features, quality, and customer service we all seem to look for.

I still use the 1014 for pens and small things.

[Karl Card]

My first lathe was an harbor freight...*&(*&())%^% ... i really cant be to mean about it though because it did pull me in to the wood turning thing. But now that lathe is going to be a dedicated buffing system..

I do like my jet 1014I and I do like my rikkon but I think I will wait and if I have to buy used that is fine, but I think Id rather wait for a good lathe than to jump the gun and be sorry for quite some time..