Why do I need a guide rail system?

[Ken Leshner]

Let me say right off the bat that this thread has nothing to do with the recent reviews and comparisons of guide rail systems.

It's simply a question that I can't figure out. I don't have a truck or a big SUV to carry full sheets of plywood back to my shop, so I usually have the lumber yard cut the plywood lengthwise to no more than 2 1/2 feet wide, which is the widest I can fit in my car. If I need wider pieces I can fit smaller pieces up to 4x5 feet in the car.

Then I have no problems using my table saw to either rip or crosscut to whatever dimensions I need.

So, can someone please tell me what's the big deal with guide rail systems and why the average woodworker needs to spend big bucks to get one?

[Ian Barley]

My opinions below - valued at the full price paid.

The average woodworker does not need to shell out a brass farthing for them. There are lots of ways to skin a cat and it sounds like between your lumber yard and your tablesaw all of your cats are suitably skinned.

Like most tools, these systems offer a more effective way , in certain circumstances, to achieve a result. The circumstances might be that somebody doesn't have a lumber yard that will cut to size. Or they may be working on site, away from a tablesaw, and need to get a clean accurate dimensioned cut. They may feel that they cannot safely handle a sheet of ply through the tablesaw and want a way to dimension stock that they are more comfortable with.

I think of a guide rail system as a circular saw (skilsaw) on steroids, There is nothing that you cannot do with it that could not be done with a handsaw, but generally the circular saw will do it quicker. With a guide rail you simply achieve the next level of capability.

It must also be noted, as it has in previous posts, that many folks have been building their own guide rail systems for many years and achieving results that perfectly match their requirements.

[Mark Singer]

I agree with Ian completely. For years we worked just with Skillsaws and many of us have mastered them and can do truly amazing things. The guided saws are nice ..I bought the Festool and like it very much. It makes sence for me since I don't have a helper to help run full sheets. I used to break them down with the skillsaw , leaving them a bit oversized and then run the smaller panels through the tablesaw. Wonderful things have been built without them...it just makes life a bit easier and the cuts are clean.

[Gary Max]

Or someone like me---I ain't bought two sheets of ply in the last three years.
I would have no use for a rail system.

[Paul B. Cresti]

Ditto on what Ian said. For me I entered the Festool ownership ranks for the use of their sanders and DC. My latest purchase was their saw/guide rail for strickly job site use and more specifically trim/scribe of big furniture units for installation. For me since I work alone it will be a real time saver and easy to use. I have no real need for this saw for shop use.

[Todd Burch]

I bought a guide rail system a few months ago. I have, and primarily use, my PM66, 5HP, 52" Fence for all my sheet processing. Saturday, I was cutting up some maple veneer MDF for some rather LARGE speaker cabinets (13" wide, 20 3/4" deep, 5'5" tall - two of them). I am assembling these 6-sided boxes with miters on every corner. I ripped/beveled the long side of the pieces, and then needed to bevel the ends. My PM66 wouldn't do it, 'cuz I don't have over 5' to the right of the blade. (I could have turned the ply upside down, but I didn't want to do that for possible tear out of the show side veneer.)

I turned to my guide rail system. I beveled the ends of the panels and got PERFECT cuts. Could I have done it freehand? Yes, but the quality of cut would not have been furniture quality, nor straight. ;)

With a zero-board, what I used to use, it wouldn't have been as good either. With the GR system, it's just about idiot proof.

I bought mine for jobsite use. I'm getting comfortable enough now with it that I could build a piece of furniture onsite with it. It would be nowhere near as fast for me, but that's probably more of a factor of my capabilities with it at this stage in the game.

You need one only IF you have an application for one that will justify it's purchase.

Todd

[JayStPeter]

I tend to agree that you dont NEED a guide rail system. It is nice though, and not just for sheet goods.

I do use full sheets of plywood and MDF fairly often. So pre-sizing the pieces is useful.

I also use mine for ripping wide pieces down so they fit on my jointer (I consider running rough wood through the TS seriously dangerous).

Another great use is to force an edge to follow the grain in the direction I want. I mark the part on the wood how I want it to get the grain direction I desire, then lay the rail down and hack a blank out.

A bandsaw could be used for the last two, but you get a jointed edge right off the rail.

Jay

[Kelly C. Hanna]

If you don't use full sheet goods, you don't need one. I want one so that I can use full sheet goods without having to rely on the Borg's minions and their way to rough cutting panelsaw.


I don't plan on spending that much on mine either.

[thomas prevost]

A a home hobbist, I have neither the room nor the funds for a full panel saw. But, I am on my third set of kitchen cabinets in 3 yrs. Guides are the only way to go for breaking down full sheets for the carcuses. I have a home built one made from an 8 foot tile layer's straight edge. I find it hard to live without. But if I were a small box builder or a turney kinda guy, I would probably never use it. I keep hinting to the wif about a Festool for Christmas or birthday, but she complains my list is already too long.

[Dan Mages]

I am in the final stages of finishing my shed project. I could not have done some of the work on the shed without my bar clamp and tool guide. Its a pretty handy tool for $40. You simply place the bar where you need to cut, slide the rear jaw into place, and push down the handle to clamp it in place. and run the saw. It's pretty useful if you ask me. The only disadvantage is that the largest one available (at my store) is 54".

Dan

[Dave Wright #2]

I'm in the car-limited group. My Honda Accord Wagon is maxes out at 2'-8" between the wheel wells and 6' in length with the back seats down. Sheet goods that make it into my car are small enough to be managed on the table saw back in the shop.

The nearby Lowes cuts sheet goods fairly carefully. I bring a handsaw when buying specialty sheet goods from the Greenville Spartanburg Hardwood Center.

Even if I had more use for a guided rail system I'm not sure that I would buy one. You can make a pretty effective zero clearance guide rail with scrap lumber and 1/4" plywood. My 4 1/2" PC circular saw cuts much more smoothly, accurately, and safely than my regular circular saw. I'm sure that a Festo saw would do these things better and add dust collection, but haven't personally been able to justify the cost.

Regards,

Dave

[Christian Aufreiter]

As others already stated you/we don't essentially need a GCSS. It basically depends on your projects, tools, size of your shop and personal preferences. Don't get me wrong it's not my intention to start a table saw vs. GCSS debate but I know that ambitious hobby woodworkers (I’m not referring to my own person here) can get along without a table saw. They use their GCSS (and a cutting table) instead.
I don't own a table saw but I have a GCSS. Do I like it? You bet I do. But would I also want to get a table saw? - Yes.
My shop is very small so I could only get a very small table saw. But I hope to have enough money and space to purchase a large type one day in my life. Up to this date I plan to use my GCSS. Besides, if space is an issue you must consider that pushing a board through the table saw requires more space than pushing s CS through a board.
It's accurate, simple to setup, doesn't take up much space for use and storage, it's mobile etc.
Those are some of the reasons why I decided to get it.
Some jobs can't be accomplished with a table saw, for example trimming a door. IMO many pros use their GCSS for onsite work.

Regards,

Christian

[Frank Pellow]

...
My shop is very small so I could only get a very small table saw.
...
Christian
Christian, what are the characteristics of your shop? I would like to add you and your workshop to the table that I am maintaining.

[Chris Padilla]

Ken,

The interesting fact here is that you DON'T need to spend big bucks for a guided rail system. You can, of course, but home built ones can work almost as well as the big buck guys. As you can see, it all depends on your application. Todd provide a great example.

I still use a Clamp-N-Tool-Guide (50" one, only good for crosscutting plywood http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2004/264.cfm) and my Skil 77 Mag CS to cut down sheet good.

After getting a great price on EurekaZone's Guided Saw System, I just recently discovered that my trusty Skil isn't ideally suited for use on it (the Skil is "left" bladed...the guide works best with a right-bladed CS). So now I'm in a bit of a quandry. Do I just use my Clamp guide and Skil or do I dump both of 'em and pick up a nice Porter-Cable CS (325Mag is what I am looking at) ?

So, at the minimum, you wil need a circular saw and some kind of a straight edge to ride the saw against. You do have lots of choices here and the price range is all over the map. :)

[Jerry Golick]

Hi Ken,

I own a Toyota Corolla so I can certainly understand your point of not being able to move sheet goods. Fortunately, the place I buy my stuff from will deliver to my house for free as long as I am buying more than 1-2 sheets.

Most of the stuff I have been doing has been with MDF and melamine. I don't own a TS and do all my work using my rail setup. For me, this has meant,

- Smaller shop footprint to do the cutting
- Only one cut to get it right
- Optimizing my use of the sheets
- Not having to lift heavy sheets when cutting them

Do you need one? Probably not. But for me at least, it was the right choice.

[Ken Leshner]

Thanks for all the feedback. In my case, from what you've all said, I can see a few important reasons for a guide system. First is safety. I'm really not too comfortable maneuvering large pieces of plywood across my tablesaw. Second is convenience. I need to move my tablesaw and clear a lot of space around it to make my cuts. And third are uses I hadn't thought of before, such as the abililty to straight line a rough board before jointing it.

My wife and I are going to the Woodworks show in Ft. Washington, PA this weekend. Both Festool and EurekaZone are exhibitors and I'll be sure to check out their systems.

[Dan Mages]

Ken,

The interesting fact here is that you DON'T need to spend big bucks for a guided rail system. You can, of course, but home built ones can work almost as well as the big buck guys. As you can see, it all depends on your application. Todd provide a great example.

I still use a Clamp-N-Tool-Guide (50" one, only good for crosscutting plywood http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2004/264.cfm) and my Skil 77 Mag CS to cut down sheet good.

After getting a great price on EurekaZone's Guided Saw System, I just recently discovered that my trusty Skil isn't ideally suited for use on it (the Skil is "left" bladed...the guide works best with a right-bladed CS). So now I'm in a bit of a quandry. Do I just use my Clamp guide and Skil or do I dump both of 'em and pick up a nice Porter-Cable CS (325Mag is what I am looking at) ?

So, at the minimum, you wil need a circular saw and some kind of a straight edge to ride the saw against. You do have lots of choices here and the price range is all over the map. :)

Yep. That is the same one that I use.

Dan

[Jay Goddard]

I don't currently own a guide rail system, but I will own one soon. My current setup for breaking down sheet goods is a sacrificial cutting table and circular saw guide system as described in the following FWW article:

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00035.asp

This system works very well with only a couple of drawbacks: First, one side of the cut line is unsupported and therefore splinters (however slight). Second, when the cuts are in the middle of the plywood sheet I have some difficulty in always holding the saw tight to the cutting guide through the entire cut (especially at the end of a crosscut). If this happens I just re-run the cut to clean it up, but this is time consuming and leaves the "off-cut" with a wavy line.

I feel that a guide system with a carraige and rails will improve greatly on my current very inexpensive system, albeit at a price. I'll have clean, unsplintered cuts with a straight line. I think that I'll feel a little safer too, not having to put as much pressure on the saw to keep it against the guide.

[Chris Padilla]

What are you getting, Jay?

[Jay Goddard]

I already own a couple of good circular saws and routers, so I'll be going with the EurekaZone system. It looks like it will do everything I want it to.




What are you getting, Jay?

[Jack Diemer]

I was cutting up some maple veneer MDF for some rather LARGE speaker cabinets

Todd, what does that veneer MDF plywood go for? We can't find that stuff in stock here, and I wanted to get a feel for what it costs per sheet.


Like Chris, I also use the Bar clamp to cut my sheets down when I need it to be straight, otherwise I rely on the Borg's minions and their way to rough cutting panelsaw sheets for me. (Kelly, I love that quote) Seems to expensive for me, I am as tight as John Thompson when it comes to buying tools.....ok not really :p

To this day I still use a SKIL brand Circular Saw that my grandfather gave my father who gave it to me. Its solid steel and cuts very well. Dust Collecton on it is non-existant, but I mainly use it outside anyway.

Don't get me wrong, if somebody rolled up and offered me the opportunity to buy one of these systems as cost, I of course could not pass up a good deal, (whether I need one or not)

[Joseph N. Myers]

I use my guide rail system mainly to put a straight edge on one side of dimensional lumber (and use the table saw to get the other edge).

Regards, Joe

[Dino Makropoulos]

Don't get me wrong, if somebody rolled up and offered me the opportunity to buy one of these systems as cost, I of course could not pass up a good deal, (whether I need one or not)


Jack.
Take the challenge and the legentary EZ-Fiat.
http://www.eurekazone.org/images/home/fiat1big.jpg
By the way...I use mine as a spoiler.
YCF Dino