Can someone explain to me where to stand at the Tablesaw?

[Jeff Sudmeier]

So this has been in the back of my head for a few years, I never posted it because I figured that I should know but I don't so here goes.

Where should I stand when ripping on the table saw. As it is now, I stand behind the blade and push through with my right hand, I have tried standing to the right of the fence and pushing the stock through with my left hand, but I feel like I have no control.

When folks say they stand out of the line of fire, how do they do it?

I run a gaurd on my table saw and use a push stick for almost every cut, if I get to over a foot wide I don't, but I am very careful to keep my hand away from the blade...

Thanks for clearing this up :)

[Myk Rian]

Being right handed, I stand to the left of the blade and stock. I never stand behind the blade.

[Marlin Williams]

Being right handed, I stand to the left of the blade and stock. I never stand behind the blade.

Same here.

[Larry Fox]

Probably not very helpful to yout but I stand in the spot where I feel like I have the most control. Unfortunately, this is sometimes right behind the blade but sometimes to right, sometimes to left. I use a Shark guard whenever practicel, use a splitter for almost 100% of my rips and use push blocks whenever practical. I feel like standing in a spot that gives you less control is actually more dangerous than standing in the "like of fire" because it raises the probability of there being a "firing".

[Roger Bullock]

It was a quick little project, nothing special as far as quality woodworking goes, and besides it was just a small 3/16" piece of plywood that needed a couple of inches removed to complete the project. That was the day I learned the hard way that no job on the TS should be attempted without putting safety first.

In the flash of an eye, I had bruised ribs as my reminder. Now anytime before I turn on any power tool, that little voice in the back of my head says "Do it safely stupid".

I am right handed so I stand to the left of the work piece and line of the blade. Line of fire usually means directly behind the blade as this is where you will get most but not all kickbacks. Out of the line of fire does not mean you are out of danger. Once a kickback is started, it can go just about anywhere. Keep in mind it is not if a kickback will happen, it's when it will happen.

[Ken Shoemaker]

If you've ever been the victim, or seen, a "kickback" you will immediately know wher NOT to stand.

I have had 2 and seen 1. Cured me from standing in the line of the saw blade. In fact, I ALWAYS look behind me, before I start the cut, to see what will be destroyed if one occures.

Further, I lock the door many times I'm in the shop because someone could walk in the door while I'm cutting and they would be right in the line of fire.

Be Careful.... Ken

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Okay, sorry I should have been more clear, I stand to the left of the blade on the offcut side and reach over the blade guard with a tall pushblock that I have great control with.

I think I'm doing it "right" then.

I was thinking that people meant that the stood to the right of the fence and I couldn't figure out how to control the cut that way.

Thanks! :)

[Van Huskey]

To the left of the blade 99% of the time. Now, I must admit when cutting the occasional short piece from light stock that I end up pretty close to the line of fire maybe over it but it is a chance I know I am taking.

[Tom Rick]

Right handed and stand to the left of blade in almost all cases working against fence set to right of blade.
One caution:

When cutting sheet goods, I stand centered on blade and work to feed the 'captive' piece. That is the piece between the blade and fence.
In a kick back, sheet goods can climb up over the fence and rotate back towards the operator while the blade grips the under surface. There is no 'safe' zone in a kickback with sheet goods so I choose to stand where I have the greatest control over the captive piece.

[Robert Reece]

Good thread. I am somewhat confused about some of the kickbacks. I know when sheet goods kickback, they seem to come off the left side of the blade flying like a helicopter blade, chopping down everything in their path. So standing to the left seems to be in the line of fire. It's where I stand when cutting.

However, I read some stories here about people taking a chunk of wood in the gut. How does this happen? Do smaller pieces not get any spin on them, but rather just get lifted straight up by the back of the blade and then rocketed straight off the top of the blade?

[Glen Butler]

My right side is typically even with the blade. You can't stand too far left or you'll cause kick backs by lack of control. I have never myself had a kick back, dad has several times, I try to tell him about saw safety, but it hurts his pride. Someday I fear he will lose a body part.

Kick back on a sheet usually involve it being caught by the corner and flung with a CCW rotation. You can't stand left far enough to avoid being hit, but you can feed properly to avoid a kick back. On sheet goods, its almost as if I feed at about a 30 degree angle to the blade, but the fence keeps it going in the right direction. This keeps it tight to the fence. If you feed directly parallel with the fence you cannot provide enough pressure to keep it tight to the fence. The force of the blade running through the material will twist the piece CCW, if ever so slightly and I feel this is when you cause a problem for yourself. Make sure the sheet has cleared the blade. Don't reach over the saw to fetch the piece. If you lose lose your grip, nasty things happen.

When cutting lumber, kick backs occur because (A) wood movement pinches the blade or (B) the wood pinches between the blade and fence. (A) can be cured by a riving knive and being conscious of blade speed and pressure to push it through. If you feel the blade is being pinched too hard, turn off the machine. For (B) make sure your fence is .001-.002 toed out from parallel with the blade. Use push sticks on smaller pieces so you can clear the blade with confidence.

Have confidence when you are at the saw and stay conscious of the task at hand at all times. Remember in T-ball, when the coach told you to keep you eyes on the ball. You look away your gonna get hit.

Never reach over the blade, and keep the work station clear of debri. If you lose your grip or stumble when reaching over the blade you can drop the piece onto the blade.

[Brian D Anderson]

Statistically, standing off to the left is probably best. I'll tell you though . . . I've taken 3 kickbacks, and have been standing on both sides. You might miss getting hit by the cut off piece . . . but you can still get hit when the other piece gets wrenched in between the blade and the fence and twists into your hip . . . or worse, a little to the side of your hip. Trust me. ;)

-Brian

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Another tip that has served me well, NEVER let go of the peice if you feel it starting to bind hold tighter and get the saw shut off. You can't duck fast enough to get out of the way but you can keep it from getting worse.

Also, all table saws should have a knee bump switch. I have one that runs the full length of the saw and I never have to turn off the switch by hand now. MUCH safer...

To the other poster, narrow rips will tend to shoot straight back, I've not had it happen but I have seen it happen.

Thanks for all of the info guys, sounds like I was doing it right, just wanted feedback to be sure.

[Bill Huber]

I am more like Larry, I stand where I feel I have the best control. Wheb I do all my cross cuts with the miter gauge on the left and my rips on the right side.

I feel that when ripping and have the wood trapped between the fence and the blade that is when I will have the most chance of a problem. I am on the right side. I have even moved my switch to the right so it is right by my knee if I need to kill the saw.

I guess if I was to make a statement that matched most of my cutting it would be this. I stand on the side of the largest part of the wood. This is the part that I am controlling and the cut off could go flying.

[Prashun Patel]

Jeff, I share your discomfort! Like most here, I stand to the left of the blade. This is fine for the 1st part of the cut, where I'm concentrating on keeping the piece tight to the fence. However, for those final few inches, I hate having to reach over the blade - even with a push stick of my GRRIPPER.

I've finally gotten over the miser in me and now purchase extra wide stock (by at least 1.5") so that I can rip it with a guard and a wide push block in tact.

If I have to rip narrower stock, I try to use a blank that's longer by 6" to a foot. Then I stop the cut short before my hand or the push stick gets in the danger zone. Then "knee" the saw off, pull the cut back out, and manually separate it from the blank. I just can't make it feel safer using a narrow push stick or even my Gripper.

[Lee Schierer]

Stand where you are comfortable making the cut and can control the cut. Kickbacks are far less likely to occur if you keep the wood under control at all times. I generally stand to the left of the blade and clear of any narrow pieces that would be between the fence and the blade. Use feather boards religiously. And most important if you are uncomfortable with how a cut feels, stop and find another way to do it.

[Thomas Allan]

I stand where I have the most contol, I've never had a kick-back. Make sure your fence is set a few thousandths further from the blade at the back end, and when ripping crowned stock, keep the crown-side toward the fence and concentrate on staying tight to the fence at the areas adjacent to the front and rear of the blade, rather than the whole fence. When cutting bowed stock, keep the high side down.

Stay fluid, which can tend to be trickier on medium and longer rips. Don't do a side-shuffle, walk with one foot in front of the other (eggshell-style) to keep the stock moving steadily. Keep a slightly favorable rotational force (or diagonal in the case of sheet goods) toward the back end of the fence. Try to push from the back end of the board rather than the sides, you won't have to constantly re-locate both hand positions, losing fluidity. Start with your back (pushing) hand fingers down, pushing with your palm and fingers (wrapped underneath), front hand doing the guiding. As you get closer to the table front, rotate the palm of your back hand into a fingers-upward position (while still pushing the whole time), and then tranfer the pushing power to your thumb, never losing your steady forward momentum. Listen to the tune of the cut for consistency.

Control the operation, don't let it control you.

Smaller and less powerful saws are more likely to cause kick-back than cabinet saws.

[Tom Rick]

Good thread. I am somewhat confused about some of the kickbacks. I know when sheet goods kickback, they seem to come off the left side of the blade flying like a helicopter blade, chopping down everything in their path. So standing to the left seems to be in the line of fire. It's where I stand when cutting.



Yep

I have been hit twice.

First time was cross cutting 3/4" sheets of plywood by myself on a Delta contractors saw while trying to finish up a job.

I had thought I could overpower the 1/2 hp saw is there was a problem... no way.

The piece that came back knocked me right off my feet.
I have had to cut plywood all to often in the field with no or poor feed tables.. the best approach it to control that captive piece at all costs. If it gets loose the blade will spin it back with force, even on small saws.

[Brian Tymchak]

I remember reading an article in some magazine about where to stand. The author recommended standing outside the miter slots. I think the author was Marc Adams, but not certain about that.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Being right handed, I stand to the left of the blade and stock. I never stand behind the blade.

bingo


tententen

[Richard M. Wolfe]

I stand where I am most comfortable making the cut and have most control over it, as Lee said. I also stand where I can see the blade the best in relation to my fingers and also see the fence so I can keep the workpiece flushed to it. Occfasionally when finishing a cut and having a cutoff I think could possibly catch in the blade becoming a bullet I will shift my position shere I think I'm out of the 'line of fire'.

[Tom Henderson2]

I am more like Larry, I stand where I feel I have the best control. Wheb I do all my cross cuts with the miter gauge on the left and my rips on the right side.

I feel that when ripping and have the wood trapped between the fence and the blade that is when I will have the most chance of a problem. I am on the right side. I have even moved my switch to the right so it is right by my knee if I need to kill the saw.

I guess if I was to make a statement that matched most of my cutting it would be this. I stand on the side of the largest part of the wood. This is the part that I am controlling and the cut off could go flying.

ME TOO!

To me, there are two fundamental issues:
1) keep body parts out of the blade
2) avoid kickback.

I just cannot get comfortable with reaching over the blade.... so I stand on the right. I never have to reach over the blade, and I feel I have complete control of the workpiece.

My $0.02

-TH

[johnny means]

I don't even worry about being hit by kickbacks. Not to say I don't try my best to avoid them, but I am much more concerned with where my hands are and where will they go when and if I slip up. Standing behind the blade is more comfortable for me and lets me ride my hand on the rip fence for narrow cuts. I do this in such a way that if I slip my hand would lurch into the fence and not towards the blade. I also use my blade guard and riving knife for the majority of cuts.

I've been hit with a couple of kickbacks ( and I'm tall with long legs, right in the jewels:eek:). I still would rather stand where I have the most control, rather than where I think I might avoid the kick back caused by a loss of control.

[Tony Bilello]

........Where should I stand when ripping on the table saw. As it is now, I stand behind the blade and push through with my right hand...........Stand where you have the best control and hopefully the best view. The exact position should change pretty much with different sizes and weights of the pieces. I usually push forward with my right hand and control the piece with my left hand if a large piece. The control is just helping push straight with just slight pressure against the fence until obviously close to the blade. You dont want to pinch the wood. When cutting large pieces of plywood, my physical position in relationship to the blade changes as I am cutting. Tony B
When folks say they stand out of the line of fire, how do they do it? Probably very dangerously. If you have to go out of your way to NOT stand in the line of fire, more than likely you are not in the best position for controlling the workpiece and you might actually be the cause of kickback and loss of control. Tony B
:)

And push sticks are always a good idea. Common sense and experience will tell you when to and when not to.

[joseph j shields]

I stand on my feet:D:D:D:D

Sorry about that....

I think the most important thing is where NOT to stand... and that is behind the work piece (to avoid potential kick back injuries)

-jj

[ken gibbs]

It depends on what type of a push stick I am using. If I am running my Unisaw without an overhead guard, the hold down has to be high enough to clear the ungaurded blade and to keep the workpiece down tight on the table as you follow through with the cut past the back of the blade. Your natural position is to the left side of the blade path. I had to get smacked once to learn the hard way. Then I added a top holddown featherboard and a good featherboard to the left of and just in front of the blade to keep the workpiece tight against the fence. My new safety setup has worked very well with no additional kickback incidents.

P.S. It hurts like hell to get smacked by kickback.

[ken gibbs]

I forgot to mention that my next accident provention move was to add an additional safety switch below the table surface so I can cut power with my knee so I can keep pressure on the workpiece with both hands for the exciting time while the blade stops turning.

[glenn bradley]

I generally stand to the side of the blade where the larger portion of the material being cut is. This is just natural for me as it gives me more control over the heavier piece of stock and generally keeps my hands farther away from the business end of the saw. I try not to stand inline with the blade but I also try not to over-reach either. If I can't fully control the material all the way through the cut, I fall back and figure out what I am doing wrong. Don't play "just this once"; the odds are all on the saw.

[Cody Colston]

Interesting thread with a few very interesting comments.

I stand where I can most easily control the material being cut. I don't worry about kickback but rather concentrate on keeping the stock tight against the fence and pushing it past the blade in one smooth, continuous motion. There is no way that I can not stand behind the blade at some point during the cut...usually towards the end as I'm finishing the pass.

Any safety weenie type will tell you that hazard recognition and mitigation go hand in hand. If you can't eliminate the hazard, then reduce the chance of it resulting in an incident.

Kickback is always a hazard with a tablesaw. It can't be eliminated entirely but it can be reduced to a remote possibility by the use of guards, splitters, riving knives and most importantly, technique.

During a rip cut (which I think we are mostly talking about here) keeping the stock against the fence until it is past the blade will virtually eliminate the chance of kickback. Even with reactive wood that starts pinching against the blade, most would recognize it occurring well before it caused a kickback, even with no splitter. Personally I think the reactive wood causing kickback idea is way overblown.

In order to keep the stock against the fence while continuously feeding it through the blade and also watching the stock against the fence (not the blade) I think the blade must be between you and the fence.

I really don't see how one could stand behind the fence and do all three...watch the stock, keep it against the fence, do it in one continuous motion.

Standing in an awkward position to control the stock, out of fear of kickback, will likely result in the very thing you are attempting to avoid.

As always, that's strictly my opinion and your's may (probably will) differ.

[Dan Duperron]

First of all, thanks to you Jeff for the original post. I've only begun to get serious about my woodworking over the last year, and this exact question was bugging me too. I too felt "I should know this or be able to figure it out" and thought I'd post when I had a little more experience.

All of the good responses have helped clarify the how, and more importantly, the WHY, in my head. My goal is to develop good safe habits early rather than have to unlearn bad ones.

One of the reasons this topic bugged me is that I'm a southpaw, and I wondered if that made any difference. Certainly it means that some operations initially feel more foreign to me with my right hand than others.

I couldn't help but notice that many of the replies included the fact that the poster was right handed, as if that makes a difference. I believe the proper safe technique is the same (given the same saw setup) whether you are right or left handed. Let me explain why, and please speak up if you see flaws in my logic. Here goes:

The saw geometry doesn't change just because the user's handedness changes. I'm purposely leaving aside (for now) the fact that in theory you can set up a saw with the fence rails biased to the left OR the right. Pretty much every saw I've ever seen is set up with the extension table and majority of the fence rails (and the rip fence itself) on the right.

In this saw configuration, when ripping, you always want the work tight against the fence and tight against the table, and you never want to stand directly behind the blade. You could stand to the left or the right. If you stand to the left, it is very easy to bias your hand pressure toward the rip fence. You are pushing in that direction a little bit, using your stance, weight, and arm pressure. It's easy to use both hands, the right to push and the left to guide.

If on the other hand you stand to the right of the blade, it is much more difficult to apply force to keep the stock tight against the fence. You either have to pull (harder to do and not very effective), or lean way to the left to try to push. Either way it seems awkward, and we all know (at least in theory) the penalty for allowing the rear corner or the wood to move away from the fence. I can't see at all how you would feed sheet goods standing to the right of the blade. This position does have the advantage that you are out of the way of wood kicking back over top of the blade CCW to the left, but it seems the chances of kickback are much greater with this stance.

Now for me I'm mostly ambidextrous (can't write with my right hand, but can do just about anything else) so standing to the left works. If I had a stronger bias toward my left hand I think I would have to set up my saw with the rails and rip fence to the left (and get a right tilt saw) to get the same effect safely.

Does that make sense or am I missing something?

[Tony Bilello]

Dan

"This position does have the advantage that you are out of the way of wood kicking back over top of the blade CCW to the left, but it seems the chances of kickback are much greater with this stance".

I am in 100% agreement with this statement. As I stated earlier, the things people do to avoid kickback are the very things that may cause it. When using the table saw I dont even think about being hit with flying wood from kickback. It never enters my mind. My prime concentration goes into body position for the best control of the wood. If I lost control of the wood, I would be more worried about my fingers than a flying fragment.

[Jason Hanko]

I'll be the lone dissenter here:
Im right handed, and I stand to the right of the blade/fence for most rip cuts.
I guess Ive just always done it that way; always made sense to me. I dont want to be directly behind the wood, and I dont want to be reaching over the blade to finish a cut (even with a push stick).
Ive never felt it was a problem keeping the wood tight against the fence from this angle, but then Ive always done it that way and can see how someone not used to it would find it awkward. To me it feels weird to be standing way to the left of a piece of wood, trying to reach over the blade far enough to be out of the immediate danger zone while keeping it moving smoothly (but then again Im a short guy, so reaching over things has never been my greatest talent).
That said I do always go with what gives greater control of the stock. Ill stand on the left side of the blade when ripping very narrow stock where a push stick is needed because I dont feel like I can keep the stock solidly against the fence with a pushstick when standing off to the right. I cross cut on the left hand side of the blade. With sheet stock I usually stand wherever gives me the most control (I think this is usually directly behind, maybe slightly left of the blade).
I dunno, just my 2 cents. No kickbacks yet </knock knock>.

[Brian Smith3]

I was taught that you want to try and stand outside of the miter slots, either to the left or right, depending on the width of the stock. So the answer is that it depends on what I am cutting (as in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9V4FyCX97Y&feature=related).

Also I use a splitter and at least one board buddy just past the midline of the blade, which if setup properly I don't know how you could have a kickback, they become kind of a non-issue. Though I do have to admit that setup may induce some bad habits because you kind of stop thinking about kickbacks in general.

[Randall Clark]

On a chair facing the rising sun. Helps to have a pink rabbit's foot in your left pocket. Good luck!:D